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Door Indicator Switch

JackinMichigan

Well Known Member
Just running some wires in the fuselage and was going to run wires for the door latch indicator. Checked the manual to see if it fits to the front pin or the rear pin. I can't find anything, at least in the manual about mounting the door. Nothing in the wiring schematic mentioned either. My kit was bought in late 2012.

Searched this website and read discussion about having indicators on both front and rear pins.

So my questions are:

Does the kit include the switch?
Am I on my own to figure out how to mount it?
Does anybody use double switches on front and rear pins?

I did not spend hours searching through the manuals, but I know I can get a quick and rapid response here.

Thanks
 
Both front and rear pins, wired in series. That way if either of them is not properly engaged, you will get a warning.

The switches were included in mine.
 
Because the door latch warning system was issued after the release of the first kits, you should find it in its own separate bag or box. Everything should be in there, including the instructions, 4 magnetic sensitive reed switches, 4 magnets, 2 LED lights, and 2 of the largest (for the job) relays you have ever seen.
I cannot recall with what kit (fuselage, finish?) Vans ships it but you should get it.
 
I didn't use the door warning kit that came from Vans. Instead I used micro lever arm switches that require positive contact from the door pins. A red LED idiot light on the panel lets me know if the pins are not engaged.
 
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Wire to EFIS

I wired mine into my EFIS. That way I got rid of the big relays. My EFIS shows a warning if the door is open and if I advance the throttle, it yells at me. Pretty hard to take off with that thing yelling in your ear.

Gary Specketer
 
I Found the Kit

I found the kit with the switches. Apoligize for the unnecessary post. Over time I have developed a system for finding things and was a little impatient on this one. Thanks for all the replies.
 
I wired mine into my EFIS. That way I got rid of the big relays. My EFIS shows a warning if the door is open and if I advance the throttle, it yells at me. Pretty hard to take off with that thing yelling in your ear.

Gary Specketer

I have mentioned in the past, but since it has been a while...
The relays were used by design choice, not because they were need.
As designed, if the sense wire for the system ever accidentally shorted to ground, it would make the system non functional, instead of producing a hard door safe indication even if a pin was not fully engaged.
This could have been done other ways, but the relays were an inexpensive and long-lasting/durable way to do it.
 
Just put the VANS magnetic switches in yesterday. Two switches each door wired in series into Skyview EMS. Red/OPEN with warning, Green when closed. I was able to very accurately position the switches to only give the closed indication right at the end of the pin travel. Of course, you cannot sense that the roll pin is actually engaged in it's slot to lock the door.

A lot easier than I thought it would be - whole thing took a couple of hours.
 
Be careful.

Visually check to see that the straight section of the pins is completely through the door jamb. Mine was not. The beveled part was in the door jamb and the straight section was held by the plastic block and I could well have lost a door, had we not discovered that the forward pin was about 3/8" too short.

It didn't take long to make a new, longer forward pin.

Best,
 
Thanks!

I have mentioned in the past, but since it has been a while...
The relays were used by design choice, not because they were need.
As designed, if the sense wire for the system ever accidentally shorted to ground, it would make the system non functional, instead of producing a hard door safe indication even if a pin was not fully engaged.
This could have been done other ways, but the relays were an inexpensive and long-lasting/durable way to do it.

This may or may not be the place to comment on this so I'll continue and let the moderators decide. I wanted to take a moment to thank you (rvbuilder2002) for your continued input on these forums. I've been on VAF for about 4 years and haven't noticed your posts until recently...or, maybe it took me a while to realize who your employer is ! Either way, I think it's extremely valuable to have input from the mothership (although your views do not express those of your employer!). You lend a perspective that few others have and that perspective provides clarity in an area that is sometimes filled with muddy water.

Thanks.
 
Door Switch Bracket Design

Hi... I am the guy who originally posted this question (couldn't find door switches 2 years ago)... Now trying to mount them, and struggling with coming up with a bracket design..

I have searched the website and can't find any. Anyone come up with a brilliant design... photos appreciated...
 
Hi... I am the guy who originally posted this question (couldn't find door switches 2 years ago)... Now trying to mount them, and struggling with coming up with a bracket design..

I have searched the website and can't find any. Anyone come up with a brilliant design... photos appreciated...

Per the plans works just fine, use an adel clamp.
 
Jack I mounted my switches per plans, but it took some perseverating. If you are still having problems, give me a call 989-245-4274. I am the builder in Michigan who visited your project (with my wife) when we took the EAA electrical sportair workshop. Dennis Spender. I have completed everything up to the point my engine is on the way and Aerotronics is finishing my panel build.
 
It CAN happen.......

There has been a lot of correspondence on these forums concerning the door locks and potential modifications. I went with the stock system without the VANS centre lock as it is not mandated in UK. I have the VANS switches wired up to my Skyview.

I must have closed and locked the doors hundreds of times during the build trying to get the fit correct. Not once did I manage to get a pin outside the frame - until I did my flight testing. I only have 7 flights logged and on at least one (and possibly two) occasions I managed to get my rear pin outside the frame. The first time I didn't get a green indication when I shut the door and thought it was simply a minor rigging error and just relocked the door. The second time I found it during the Before Take-Off Checklist and then, to my horror, found that the rear pin was outside the frame.

The problem is that (for me certainly) you can't see whether the rear of the door is flush as it is hidden by the seat back. I have now reviewed my door closing technique to try and prevent it and will brief my pax to do a cross-cockpit check as you CAN see the opposite door.

Bottom line is to accurately fit these switches and use them as intended. I have 2 chances on the Before Take-Off Checklist to catch any error - "Doors Closed and Green" or "Caution/Warning - Check".

I will also review whether I need a secondary lock. Issue in the UK is that a mod such as this needs to be approved and I am not sure I want to go through the process unless I need to, but these incidents have certainly made me think about something I didn't think was possible.

Be careful out there........
 
I may seem like a broken record to some, but I will repeat my recommendation. Of course, the rear pin needs to be in the hole. That's the first check. Second, and most importantly, the roll pin on the door latch mechanism needs to be in the slot fully. No backup latch that I am aware of has been tested in flight except one, and that is a strap from the forward arm of the year leg weldment to he door handle itself. I have seen this and heard of this tested in flight at least 5 times, and every time it has prevented a door departure. As much as I like the PlaneAround cam for making sure the rear pin is in the hole, it WILL NOT prevent a door departure. I have personally had the door come open on a plane I was in 3 times. Twice e strap saved he day. The first time he door came open about 2/3 of the way and I was able to grab it fast enough to keep it on the plane. Without a rear handle on these 3 openings, the door would not have been close able in flight.

I honestly would like to hear from anybody else who has a method of keeping a door attached that does come open in flight, that has been tested.
 
I have yet to install my lights--I'll get around to it eventually, but it's at the bottom of the to do list. Right now I simply feel for the pins after I shut and lock the doors (fool proof only IF you have what we described in the USAF as checklist discipline) or if any of my family is sitting in back I just ask them to verbally verify the pin is extended.
 
I'm a little concerned. When I built my latches, I tested their operation and, out of curiosity, tried to latch them with only 1 pin engaged. It took force, a lot of it, to twist the door enough to be able to lock the handle down with either the front or rear pin outside. I mean, that's a 3/4" or 1" (sorry, it has been a while and I'm not at the plane to measure) displacement? My doors are stock, no special reinforcing, but they don't want to twist that much. Add the strut and it gets stiffer because it fights the very minimal slop from the door hinges. I'm putting the sensors in, of course, because it's possible to not lock the doors all the way down, but how are people casually engaging only one latch?
 
I'm a little concerned. When I built my latches, I tested their operation and, out of curiosity, tried to latch them with only 1 pin engaged. It took force, a lot of it, to twist the door enough to be able to lock the handle down with either the front or rear pin outside. I mean, that's a 3/4" or 1" (sorry, it has been a while and I'm not at the plane to measure) displacement? My doors are stock, no special reinforcing, but they don't want to twist that much. Add the strut and it gets stiffer because it fights the very minimal slop from the door hinges. I'm putting the sensors in, of course, because it's possible to not lock the doors all the way down, but how are people casually engaging only one latch?

When you did your test, did you have door seals installed? I have the stock Van seals and unless a constant pull is maintained while latching, based upon door to cabin geometry it's relatively easy to have the front pin engage normally while the rear pin stays outside the door sill and slides along the side skin.
 
Rear Switch

My rear switch came loose. How? Since it was wired into the AFS, the flag was "on" continuously.

I used a slight amount of epoxy to reposition & hold the switch in place; it works "flawlessly" now.

Double check the latch in the pre-flight checklist is a mandatory item.

A few years ago, a door departed an RV-10 on take-of at Falmouth. After RTB one of the neighbors drove to the shack (now a fine looking terminal building!) with the door asking "Is anyone missing this part!" It landed in his backyard; his children were inside, fortunately.

A double emergency narrowly missed.
 
As I said, hundreds of door closings during the build and I didn't think it was possible to get the rear pin outside the frame - but I managed it twice in 7 flights.

To my mind, the door warning system is mandatory whether you rig it to lights or an EFIS. It was one of the easier jobs to do so no real excuse not to.
 
IMHO one issue is people try to close the door by pulling on the handle. Since the handle is well forward this tends to pull in the front better than the rear. I have a pull strap in the middle of the door, that works better. But it is then a two handed operation, one for the strap, the other to close the handle.
 
Door lights

My RV10 has the proximity switches from Vans wired through a ground loop and into the G3X. It has worked perfect for 580 hours now. I would like builders to try my doors to see how easy they close. They are really smooth to operate with very little friction. I check the handles before rolling on takeoff. I don't need to check the pins. You physically can't shut my doors and leave a pin out of the fuselage. This is an easy one hand operation that requires no force upon closing the door and that is with a really tight seal.
My door can rest on the seal and with no pulling force you can rotate my handle and shut the door. It's that simple. I let the passenger close their door and just check the handle position before takeoff. I think people are making this a lot harder operation than it needs to be.
I have the PlaneAround 180 kit with angled pins and delrin guides. Of course I can say I recommend this because I run PlaneAround but it really works that easy if you take the time fitting your doors right the first time.
 
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