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  #21  
Old 01-14-2021, 09:49 AM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
The checklist MUST be used if you have made modifications to the kit or if you had ANY paid assistance.
Modifications such as....?
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2021, 10:48 AM
AndyWAUS AndyWAUS is offline
 
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Location: Seattle, WA
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I got a call back from FAA MIDO, and they confirmed the things others have said on the thread. For the airworthiness certificate perspective, they are only concerned about the 51% rule, and as long as the kit is in the list of FAA evaluated kits, you don't need anything. Plan pages marked with dates of completion is more than enough as a builder log.

They also said no FAA engagement is needed until the airplane is ready for inspection. When ready, submit the application through the AWC tool on the faa.gov website and they will tell the wait time for MIDO. If the wait is too long then choose a DAR.
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2021, 10:47 PM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
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Originally Posted by AndyWAUS View Post
I got a call back from FAA MIDO, and they confirmed the things others have said on the thread. For the airworthiness certificate perspective, they are only concerned about the 51% rule, and as long as the kit is in the list of FAA evaluated kits, you don't need anything. Plan pages marked with dates of completion is more than enough as a builder log.

They also said no FAA engagement is needed until the airplane is ready for inspection. When ready, submit the application through the AWC tool on the faa.gov website and they will tell the wait time for MIDO. If the wait is too long then choose a DAR.
Good on ya for thinking ahead and putting a good process in place, but don't stress over things. If you're only on the empennage kit, you've got boatloads of time to learn about all of the registration and inspection steps. Just keep decent records and notes and photos, and focus on building. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Enjoy the journey
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  #24  
Old 01-15-2021, 07:17 AM
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Mel Mel is online now
 
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Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer View Post
Modifications such as....?
Primarily we're are looking at major modifications that change the configuration of the aircraft or ones that would reduce the percentage of the builder.

IMO, the latter is a "no brainer" because, as we all know, any modification increases the work done by the builder.
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  #25  
Old 01-15-2021, 08:42 AM
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jnorris jnorris is offline
 
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Originally Posted by MarkW View Post
A log book, pictures or blog is mostly for getting your Repairman's certificate. I don't think the DAR really cares who built it.
Not sure where you got that idea. The DAR (or FAA inspector) definitely DOES care who built the aircraft. Proof of compliance with the major portion requirement (aka the "51% rule") for an amateur-built airworthiness certificate is required before the certificate can be issued. The build records, along with the verbal interview at the time of the final inspection, are used to make the determination that the aircraft meets the requirement. If the build records and/or the interview ends up being insufficient in the inspector's judgement, the inspector has the option of employing the checklist. Of course such a situation is very rare, but it can happen.

And yes, the build records are also used when applying for the repairman certificate, but that's not their primary purpose.
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  #26  
Old 01-15-2021, 09:56 AM
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Hi Joe,
I should spend some time researching this before replying but short on time.
I ASSUMED that amateur built means any amateur. Not necessarily the one registering the plane. So as long as it is not >50% professionally built it was good. Remembering back 7 years I don't remember the conversation coming up with the DAR about who built my plane. I am sure a DAR would be quick to pick up on it during conversation about the build and then require documentation if required.

I will spend some time looking for documents supporting us both. please list if you know where I can find it.

Second thought, what about the Young Eagles build or partner builds?

Title 14, Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR), part 21, section 21.191(g), defines an amateur-built aircraft as an aircraft "the major portion of which has been fabricated and assembled by person(s) who undertook the construction project solely for their own education or recreation."
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Last edited by MarkW : 01-15-2021 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Later research
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  #27  
Old 01-15-2021, 10:00 AM
AlpineYoda AlpineYoda is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
Primarily we're are looking at major modifications that change the configuration of the aircraft or ones that would reduce the percentage of the builder.

IMO, the latter is a "no brainer" because, as we all know, any modification increases the work done by the builder.
Thanks for pointing this out. The language really didn't make any sense to me. I'm making some modifications to my RV-10, including a BRS parachute system. As an example, installing just that parachute system adds about 100 hours to the build time, according to the manufacturer. As a result, I will be 100 MORE hours on the good side of 51%. How a builder modification would decrease a builder under 51% makes no sense to me, given mods ADD time versus stock plans. I'm glad you are as confused about the language as I am, and you are the expert.
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  #28  
Old 01-15-2021, 12:35 PM
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jnorris jnorris is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkW View Post
Hi Joe,
I should spend some time researching this before replying but short on time.
I ASSUMED that amateur built means any amateur. Not necessarily the one registering the plane.
I think we are on the same page. When you said the DAR doesn't care who built the plane, I took the "who" to mean if it was an amateur or a paid professional. You are correct in that the DAR or inspector is only looking to verify that amateur builders performed the major portion of the tasks, whether the applicant was involved or not. But the build records are HOW we determine that the amateur-built requirements are met. So we definitely ARE interested in the build records. Thus, I was referring to your statement that the build records are primarily used when applying for the repairman certificate. That is not the case. The build records are very important at the time of certification. This is especially true in those cases where the applicant may have obtained a partially-completed project.
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  #29  
Old 01-15-2021, 01:53 PM
SantosDumont SantosDumont is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Henderson, NV
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I use the website webuildplanes.com Itís super easy to use from my phone, I just snap a picture on my phone as Iím working and write down what task I completed and how many hours I worked on it.
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  #30  
Old 01-15-2021, 02:06 PM
Fenderbean Fenderbean is offline
 
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Location: Huntsville AL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirejock View Post
My opinion, but if I were buying an experimental, a builder log would get almost as close an examination as the airplane. A well documented log should help resale value. However, I'm very OCD. My blog is below.
Not required, but I also recommend at least three EAA Tech Counselor visits. Preferably by different TCs. One before closing the first empennage component. One before closing wings and tanks. One at canoe stage. One before DAR inspection.
Man thats the best information ever, and I just took a look at your build. From one OCD to the next very nice job!
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