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RV 10 or 14

Cholley6

Active Member
Ok, so here?s where I am. I am a recent private pilot, I bought a 172k about 6 months ago to finish up and figure out what I wanted to fly and how my mission would be. I am still in the process of figuring this out, but I think I?m wanting to start either the RV 10 or the RV 14 in the next year. As of now I think the majority of my flying time will be either just me or maybe with one other person. But, my wife?s family lives elsewhere and we currently have a 2 year old and another on the way shortly. The 172 will work well for us for a while but let?s face it, it?s a 50 year old airframe that I have to hire someone else to do everything to and it?s not nearly as fast. I think there is a good chance that my wife and I have more children so that bumps me out of the 10 anyway. I guess I?m trying to decide if I just build the 10 so that I can haul more, or go with the 14 and try to buy a share or rent a 206 or equivalent 6 seater for the few trips per year I need extra seats. Business does not take me far away very often. I know I?m not the only one that has had this dilemma so I?m wondering what has worked well for others. Also I would like to try and find a ride in both the 10 and 14 before I commit to a build. I live in NE Louisiana and I?m looking for excuses to make cross country?s. Thanks for the opinions I?m hoping will follow.
 
If you have the means to buy a 172 and you have access to other planes for rent, I think you need to stop and think about what you really have time for and whether you are in the right place to spend the next 2-5 years in the garage / hangar working.

I trained seriously for a year for my final Ironman (20 hours a week for a year) while my wife was home with our then 3 and 4 year olds. It almost ruined my marriage. A pretty selfish act. We?ve both raced in many of these (20 for me) and we actually met on the racecourse at an Ironman, so it is in our blood. But doing it while we had young kids was rough. In retrospect, I probably shouldn?t have done it. Things are much better today, but it took a while to repair the relationship. And that was only a year of work, maybe 6 months of really hard work.

The kids are 11 and 12 today. They fly with me, they are helping me build an RV-10. It?s an entirely different world now.

If you have a young child and you say that more might be on the way, and you have access to rental or owned aircraft, are you really going to be able to build one? Or is this just going to be a source of constant frustration for you (only 4 hours of progress a week) and anger for her (HE?S ALWAYS WORKING ON THAT %$#& AIRPLANE WHILE I RAISE OUR KIDS!!!)
 
Opinions

You?ll get lots of opinions on this topic. I am married with a 4yo and 3 mo old. I started the RV14 18 months ago when we just had the 3yo. It has definitely been a give and take for time to work on the plane, but two things made it work for us. First, anytime the wife asked to go do something I Stopped work and watched the kids. Second, anytime my daughter came out and asked me to play the answer was yes. The plane always takes a back seat to helping the wife and raising the kids. It can be frustrating when trying to accomplish a task, but your frustration with the plane is easier to fix that her frustration with you.

I recently sold the 14 kit just as I am finishing the fuselage to a gentlemen who wants to fly sooner and have his own personal touches on the aircraft. In turn, now that we have a family of 4 I plan to start the RV10 next summer (unless Van?s comes out with a new 4-seat aircraft between now and then). The 2nd child changed the dynamic of the 14 vs 10 equation for me and I realized after a flight at work that my body is not up to the aerobatics that I used to really enjoy.

I am sure lots of opinions will be shared on this post based upon everyone?s different life experiences. My advice would be to ask your wife the same questions you ask here as her opinion of your time and the household finances is more important than anything posted on this forum.

On a side note, I did the real math of building the RV14 & RV10 with full glass cockpits and brand new components. The 14 came out to about $160K if you do everything yourself (electrical/paint/slow build). When I sold the kit I was on track for that cost. I have calculated the RV10 will cost about $215K. Others may have better detailed costs (lots of variables here) but these are more accurate numbers for the kind of airplanes you are seeing actually built than what is posted on the Vans website.
 
Jon has some good advice and estimates.

If kids are involved, then the RV-10 seems like a no brainer. We fly ours everywhere as a family. The experience is awesome and the convenience is unmatched.

If kids weren?t involved, the RV-14 would be a no brainer. Even though I own a -10, I?d like to get started on a -14 fairly soon. My son is 9 and I?d like to build the -14 with him before he leaves home. I?d also like to give him the -14 to use. Ultimately he?ll have kids and he can take the -10 for his family and my wife and I will take the -14 for our trips.

That?s pretty much our plan but if kids are in the picture, then the -10 is the easy answer - IMO. Being able to take trips together anywhere you want, any time you want, and to bring anything you want makes traveling with the family so much better.
 
I guess let me clarify slightly. Firstly I farm so my workload is seasonal and I don?t exactly work 9-5 anyway, my wife is a school administrator. This means most of my free time is when she cant take off work. Progress on building would tend to follow that seasonal flow as well. First child is a boy, second will be a boy. Anytime I work on anything in the house my son grabs his tool kit and comes to ?help.? It will probably be at least a year before I start working on a kit, but I?m trying to think out what my options are, what would fit for us so that as we use the 172 over the next year we can discuss the pros and cons. I also think it could be a fun experience to plan out what we want as a family, and travel to look at some flying RVs. I would be building in the garage and I think it would be a great distraction away from screens for both myself and kids as they get older and more capable. It also sounds like a good way to teach them about the mechanical world. I expect the plan would be to sell the 172 about the time firewall foreword was due. I don?t expect to set records with speed of build because either RV is not something that I need, but rather want to accomplish at some point.
 
With your grown family (Congratulations!), build the -10.

Even though the times you fill all four seats will be few, the cost of the two planes aren't that far apart, if you scrounge for a good engine and prop for the -10. The "problem" with the -14 it is requires a unique engine (IO-390, and I know, an IO-360 angle valve will work, but why?) and CS prop. Talking to -14 builders, $150K isn't an unreasonable number.

While keeping the 172 and a two seater RV-14 would work, it also means you have twice the maintenance, you are insuring two planes, etc.
 
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Our RV-10 has been an excellent family hauler. I began construction just before the twins were born. I found that airplane construction actually dovetailed well with being a dad to young children. It kept me in the house, available to take care of the kids, and when they were napping or otherwise under control, the garage was steps away.
 
Two practical considerations:

  • While everyone's final costs will be different, I'll have ~$175K in my -14A after paint. That's with a very comprehensive IFR panel and show-quality paint. I haven't conducted any detailed price projections for a -10, but it'll absolutely be more.
  • Everyone in the planning stage of a build should remember to consult their aviation insurance agent. As a low-time pilot (presumably still VFR, to boot) who's interested in a fast, 4-seat homebuilt, you might be astonished at the premium. If that's a factor, it's far better to find out now.
I'm sure that others will add to this list, but these two points came directly to mind when I read your post. Food for thought...
 
Assume new engine and CS prop from Van?s, same dual EFIS IFR panel and such, the RV-10 will be ~$30k more than the RV-14(A) to build. My experience flying both is the RV-10 is a little faster in LOP economical cruise than the 14(A) for perhaps a little more than one GPH higher fuel burn.

The RV-10 insurance when last purchased was ~$1600/year.

The RV-10 is more work to build over the RV-14(A), but nothing beyond an average builders?s skill level.

The RV-10 is hands down the best value for the mission of cross country IFR. The hard advantage of the RV-14(A) is aerobatics - so if that is a must your decision is already made.

Carl
 
Put a bench seat in the back of the 10 with seat belts for 3 and you will have a 5 place plane. You should be able to keep it within weight and balance at least till your oldest becomes a teenager.
 
Thanks everyone, from what has been said here, what my first thoughts were, and some other places I?ve been reading, it seems the 10 would most likely be the best choice. Is there anyone within a 500 mile radius of north Louisiana with a RV 10 that would be willing to give my wife and I a ride some time so we can see just what they are all about?
 
I own both...and raised my kids in the RV-10. Having that perspective, there's no way in heck I'd choose the RV-14 in your situation. The RV-10 is really your only good choice that Van's has to offer. If you don't do a -10, I'd encourage you to not do a Van's kit at all, but find a different suitable 4-seater.

That said, considering the low time you have, I would say you have one other thing to overcome, and that's your low time. If...you will continue your flying while you build a -10, and plan to have at least 200-250 minimum hours before you finish the 10, then I'd say perhaps it's worth starting now. If not, you really should focus on building time right now. It takes a lot of income to build the RV-10, but even more to build hours WHILE you build your RV-10. The insurance will be very expensive with low hours. So focus on getting some good flying time and experience in.

Assuming the "Money is no object", and "I have all the time in the world", then it's easy...start building the RV-10...don't do ANY quickbuild options, and if you truly have plenty of time to build one, you could finish in 3-4 years pretty easily. (many people will scoff at that). But you have to keep your nose in the project. This can be tough, if you're raising kids, but to be honest, I found it easier to do that when I was building my RV-10 and my kids were 3 and 5-ish than I did building the -14 later when they were in High School. Life doesn't get easier, at least from what I've found. You have more energy and can work late into the night easier when you're 30 than 50. Maybe that's just me. :)

I sincerely hope you are in a good position to purchase, build, and fly, while also building hours in your 172. If you drop most other things in life other than the kids, it's do-able. I had 500 hours or so by the time I finished my RV-10 but other than that, I was in a similar boat, and the RV-10 turned out to be one of the single biggest things that impacted my family (in a positive way, mostly). With your boys, this could be a huge thing for them. Just don't bite off more than you can chew or try to move quicker than you can.

I also really think the RV-10 kit isn't very significantly harder to build than the RV-14. It is only a small increase in amount of time it takes, considering the size of the whole project. It's a little more money too, but even there, i'd say it's proportionate. Basically, if you can easily afford an RV-14, then a -10 is probably within reach to someone who tries.

So good luck and hope it works out well for you!
 
Hi, a little late...but I have nearly the same ?first world problem?. I?m owning a Stinson right now and have 3 small children (6 months, 4 and 6 yrs).
When we were only four we made some trips (already less than we ever thought we would), mostly daytrips, a year but most of the time it was only me maybe with a buddy onboard.
My kids don?t go flying because of flying but because we combined this with a day on the beach or whatever. Maybe this will change but I?ll never force them in any way into flying.
Anyway, now with a family of five the Stinson is too small and changing to a six-seater would even make less sense when being 90% solo.
So in my point of view a 10 doesn?t make sense if you plan to have more than 2 kids. Imagine you need for example 5 years for the build, you may have already three kids before the first flight. Everybody is different but my wife and I would never go flying with two of our kids leaving one at home...

So the most economical way would be as for me, owning a fun two-seater. You can spend time with one of your children at a time. You can rent or buy a share of a 6-Seater for family trips.

Building yes or no is harder to decide. I?m also still struggling with this time- and moneywise. Don?t know your work schedule but I often have to work from early afternoon on and wife and kids aren?t at home in the morning. This would make things a lot easier if you don?t have to decide between project and family.

Good luck!
 
I would tend to agree with that. If you have more than 2 kids, the RV-10 is also maybe not for you. I'd start looking at 6 seaters. I'm not sure that I'd even recommend owning outright either of the planes. A partnership in an RV and in a 6 seater would be a great thing if you can find the right people to work it with. I've always hoped I'd meet someone who lives by me that could share in the RV-14, as owning and maintaining two is a definite chore.
 
I?m in a small town. My 172 is in a community hangar and one of the other planes is a 206. I know 4 owners in it currently. For the last several years I always thought it was the 10 that I really wanted to build. But seeing that 206 sitting every time I go fly made me think about owning a 2 seat and using the 206 if needed. I?ve put 50ish hours on my 172 over the last few months and I?ve only had 3 people in it a couple times, granted I haven?t had my license that long so a lot of that was training or solo time while waiting on my check ride. My plan was to fly the 172 long enough to start to figure out how I would use it and what I really wanted in a plane. I guess my question would have been asked better this way. Is there enough savings both in building and operating the 14 over the 10 to justify buying into or renting something like a 206 for those trips and give up the back 2 seats? Tim, your website has probably led me to thinking I would like the 10 and then borrow or rent a 6 seater if we have a 3rd child and if we could all go. I also occasionally make parts runs for equipment on the farm and the extra space/weight would be nice in the 10. Sorry for getting long winded.
 
That makes sense. The 206 + RV14. It's really hard to know without seeing the future.

Regarding your question about cost of building and flying:

It really depends on how you look at it. Yes, you will definitely spend a little less building the RV14. The kit is a little cheaper, the engine is cheaper, and the interior will be more sparse with less options for upgrades like overhead panels and such. Beyond that, and the insurance, you're not going to save tons of money in the long haul. The RV-10 has a knack for getting really good fuel burns. So much so that I find only a couple gph less in the 14. It's easy to cruise the RV-10 at anything from 8 to 11gph on x/c flights depending on altitude...the higher the better. Insurance wise, with a higher time pilot, I'm not anywhere near $1000 more for the -10 than the -14. Maybe $500-700.
So you do get savings, but when you consider the overall cost of finishing either kit, I don't consider that a large enough difference to make the decision on the kit. Really, the only thing that I think is worth comparing is the mission you would fly it for. Figure that out, and you can figure out the best plane choice. The RV-10 BTW will fly circles around a 206 and be far cheaper to maintain and fly x/c...but it's got the high up front cost to acquire.
I myself would find it very very hard to go back to owning certified planes. I can see maybe a Bonanza, but I could never really ditch my RV's. If you talk to people who've owned RV's for a few years, you can get an idea of annual costs, but really it isn't much...just mainly wear and tear parts, and you're not paying someone to install them for you.

If Van's would just come out with a 6 seater, I think you'd see the market dry up for most of the competition in that market. The RV-10 sure made an impact in the 4-seat market and it's a very wanted airplane.
 
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