What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Kitlog users warning

DonFromTX

DonFromTX

Well Known Member
Update 12/7/2014;
My anger at losing four years of postings got the better of me when I posted the below comments. Kitlog made a mistake in purging my file, I can understand that, I think once upon a time I even made a mistake myself. My purpose in making the post was to illustrate my long term ignorance of the Kitlog system, resulting in my not making a backup of the mdb file! The post written in intense anger, did not clearly make this point, in fact served to condemn Kitlog. Kitlog is working to remake my log at present. Regardless if they do or do not, Kitlog is the best log for the money out there to my knowledge, and my post should not serve to steer people away from it, only to educate them as I now have been, to make backups, as is clearly dictated in the Kitlog instructions.

==========================
Original post follows:
As many of you are aware, I have had an extensive record of my build for four years on Kitlog.
I found today that Kitlog personnel erased (they call it "purged") my entire four years of work, photos, narrative, etc.
They offered a data file from which I could make a new log, character by character of the four years. Yeah, like I have time for that!
It has taken several weeks for them to stumble around at excuses and in a fog to even get to that final point.
Needless to say, I would encourage anyone using Kitlog to become aware of what can happen, and print out copies of your files regularly. Better yet, I would recommend you find a log service that does not do business this way.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a new builder log company?

[formatting edited for clarity; S. Buchanan]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Huh???? No backups on the kitlog side? I don't use the product but do they offer a backup of your data that you can access and keep? Too late now of course but I am surprised they do not backup their own data. Seems strange.

I am sure everyone will come along soon with lots of suggestions.

I use an iPad app called TimeTracker Pro. I back this data up regularly myself both to icloud as well as export a copy of it in csv format and email it to myself. You can I believe have it do this to your dropbox automatically as well for a couple of dollars more. That allows me to type in text, take pictures, and log time per task (chapter of the manual in my case). I already have the iPad there in the garage as I use it for time lapse and listening to podcasts too. So because I already have the iPad, my solution here cost me a whopping $1.99 for the app.

I have seen other people say they just use a spreadsheet, as well as various blog sites. I have one myself but it is only for occasional updates to anyone who is interested in what I am up to with the project (high level status updates only for me - I would rather build than blog though I am REALLY grateful to those that do)
 
Last edited:
DonFromTX said:
As many of you are aware, I have had an extensive record of my build for four years on Kitlog.
I found today that Kitlog personnel erased (they call it "purged") my entire four years of work, photos, narrative, etc.
They offered a data file from which I could make a new log, character by character of the four years. Yeah, like I have time for that!
It has taken several weeks for them to stumble around at excuses and in a fog to even get to that final point.
Needless to say, I would encourage anyone using Kitlog to become aware of what can happen, and print out copies of your files regularly. Better yet, I would recommend you find a log service that does not do business this way.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a new builder log company?
Click to expand...

Something doesn't sound right. Kitlog keeps all data in a Microsoft Access database on your PC. It then takes information in that database and pushes it to the web.

There is no way they can purge data on your PC.

I routinely copy that MDB file for my own archival. I also keep a hard copy version to that I shared with the FSDO inspector. Three five inches binders that overwhelm the FSDO inspector and quickly put him at ease.
 
That would seem to make their product something to run from, but I went and looked at their website under the FAQ section and found this:
Q. Why should I pay for KitLog Pro V2.x when I can use a free Web-based builder's log program?
A. You get what you pay for. Web-based programs depend on Internet connections which are not always reliable. Additionally, when using Web-based programs users are dependent upon the host server. If the data on that host server is corrupted, or if the server crashes, your data has the potential of being lost. Users of KitLog Pro V2.x store their data on their own computer, not someone else's.

Hopefully, the information is on your hard drive. It may reside in both places, on your drive and on their server because people can pull up the builders log from their servers when your computer is not online.
I would be interested in the outcome if you have a future update.
 
+1 (Something's not right here)

Kitlog is stored on the USER's computer, not somewhere in the cloud or at a data center.. Did you erase the file, get a new computer, get a new operating system (i.e. upgrade from Windows Vista to something else)?? If that's the case, then Kitlog is basically giving you their "latest" version of whatever you uploaded, that you should be able to open on your new computer, using the Kitlog software, and start your log all over again, without re-building each post. It should be as simple as saving/opening the file they gave you, using the Kitlog software.

You should call Matt Draille and see if he can walk you through it. I'm not the most advanced computer user I know, and I can imagine how mad I would be if I lost my log, but a knee-jerk reaction of "they eresaed all my stuff" might not be the reality of the situation...
 
Last edited:
I had a total computer crash, so I did not have a MDB file available, that seemed to be the killer. I had no idea I needed to back up the MDB file on a regular basis - until after the crash.
I would have been happy to just start a new log, and back up my original log on paper for inspection purposes. I was not given that option prior to the purge by kitlog.
I still don't understand the file on my computer being part of the system, I could access the Kitlog file long after my computer crashed, from any computer or smart phone anywhere, not doing anything from my computer.

rleffler said:
Something doesn't sound right. Kitlog keeps all data in a Microsoft Access database on your PC. It then takes information in that database and pushes it to the web.

There is no way they can purge data on your PC.

I routinely copy that MDB file for my own archival. I also keep a hard copy version to that I shared with the FSDO inspector. Three five inches binders that overwhelm the FSDO inspector and quickly put him at ease.
Click to expand...
 
Builder blog

Suddenly my archaic method of Excel and Google Blogger seem logical. I keep all the time and materials in Excel and photos with time and description on Google. All data including scans of receipts is backed up in three places. One off site.
 
Purge?

Help me out here...what purge are you talking about?

I haven't updated Kitlog site in awhile, but the entire file is on my computer, which drives the data on the site.

When did this purge take place? My log seems fine.

Cheers,

Don
 
I just started using kit log a week ago for a new project.
I do understand that kit log houses its database file internally on your own machine so there has got to be more to this story.

Don

Were you originally under the impression that Kitlog actually housed all your files and information internally on a server somewhere?

My understanding is that all kit log does is push the database file to the net. The actual data is stored on your machine. Im sorry for your loss. I hope you find a way to get past this.
 
Last edited:
They purged only MY file, they seemed to think that I could just start over that way, did not care about the history of four years work.
Don Patrick said:
Help me out here...what purge are you talking about?

I haven't updated Kitlog site in awhile, but the entire file is on my computer, which drives the data on the site.

When did this purge take place? My log seems fine.

Cheers,

Don
Click to expand...
 
Well you may be right, but if it is only on my machine, why can I access it from anywhere on any computer, even after mine crashed? Makes no sense to me.
And yes, I was under the impression that Kitlog actually housed all my files and information on a server somewhere. I now understand from them that this is correct, only their file is only a data dump type file. They purged all the information from their end, and did not do it on my computer or yours, only theirs.
I think you might like Kitlog, I sure did. Just be warned that they can make your log into a blank page at will, and you must do continual backups to preserve your information, don't count on them like I did. If I had it to do over, I would print out everything at least once a month and add it to a notebook.
ijustwannafly said:
I just started using kit log a week ago for a new project. Now I'm not so sure i want to
I do understand that kit log houses its database file internally on your own machine so there has got to be more to this story.

Don

Were you originally under the impression that Kitlog actually housed all your files and information internally on a server somewhere?

My understanding is that all kit log does is push the database file to the net. The actual data is stored on your machine. Im sorry for your loss. I hope you find a way to get past this.
Click to expand...
 
DonFromTX said:
They purged only MY file, they seemed to think that I could just start over that way, did not care about the history of four years work.
Click to expand...

Don
This just doesn't make sense in my opinion. There has to be more to this story. The chances of kit log turning around one day out of the blue, picking your name out of a hat and saying lets erase his stuff just doesn't make sense

Here IMHO is what sounds like happened from what your saying.

You were under the impression that kit log did back ups for you and they housed your data for you on a server. Therefore you had not backed up your Database file. I always say, its whats i don't know i was suppose to do that could kill me someday.
You had mentioned you had a computer failure. So it would seem you lost your database from the hardware failure you had and because you had not backed it up ( because you were never told to) and lost your local copy of your database. It seems you wonder under the impression that kit log stored it for you so you probably contacted them and said "hey where is the backup of my file" and they looked at you funny. My guess is by what they meant by purge was occasionally due to the push to the internet they preform for you they could of had a temp copy probably based on the last time you clicked the "publish to internet" button.

From what has been said so far these seems to be more along the lines of what possibly happened.

With all that said lets change our focus to figuring out if there is absolutely anyway to recover your local copy.
What kind of computer crash did you experience? Hardware? Software? What type of machine and O.S
Have you had anyone try to retrieve the data from the hard drive in the machine that it was stored?
It seems like there was some miscommunication between you and kit log and potentially your understanding of how kit log works. Instead of focusing on the bad, lets try and see if there is any possible way we can save the data.

On another note, i think it would behove kit log to come up with an explicit document explaining proper backup procedures for their product as to help avoid this issue in the future.
 
Last edited:
ijustwannafly said:
With all that said lets change our focus to figuring out if there is absolutely anyway to recover your local copy.
What kind of computer crash did you experience? Hardware? Software? What type of machine and O.S
Have you had anyone try to retrieve the data from the hard drive in the machine that it was stored?
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I feel for you Don. Anyone working with computers long enough has had this happen. Computer crashes come in all shapes and sizes. If the discs still spin there might be hope to retrieve your files. Just because it stopped booting doesn't mean all your data is gone. Can you put your hands on the bad drive?
 
Lemmingman said:
I agree with this. I feel for you Don. Anyone working with computers long enough has had this happen. Computer crashes come in all shapes and sizes. If the discs still spin there might be hope to retrieve your files. Just because it stopped booting doesn't mean all your data is gone. Can you put your hands on the bad drive?
Click to expand...

Exactly where i was headed Gil
We need to get our hands on the hard drive to figure out if it will spin up or not. If it does, there is a good chance we can get the file off
 
I like your change of focus!
Here is what happened: My computer crashed, when I got it back up Kitlog was still there as always, except I was unable to post to the log. That started weeks of silly communication with Kitlog, most were solutions to problems I was not even having, all I needed to do is post. They knew from the very first I had no backup file. After three weeks of silly stuff, they then announced to me that they had "purged" the file, so now I could start a new log! That got my pacemaker to working overtime. Up to that time I could view the entire 4 years of entries, just could not post new ones.
OK, if I believe everything I am trying to understand being said here, lets try this one. I have a laptop I used to post to the log for some time, kept it by the plane. It has not even been turned on in maybe 6 months. Using the theories presented here, I should be able to turn it on, access my kitlog, and download that .mdl file that is so important, right?
ijustwannafly said:
Don
This just doesn't make sense in my opinion. There has to be more to this story. The chances of kit log turning around one day out of the blue, picking your name out of a hat and saying lets erase his stuff just doesn't make sense

Here IMHO is what sounds like happened from what your saying.

You were under the impression that kit log did back ups for you and they housed your data for you on a server. Therefore you had not backed up your Database file. I always say, its whats i don't know i was suppose to do that could kill me someday.
You had mentioned you had a computer failure. So it would seem you lost your database from the hardware failure you had and because you had not backed it up ( because you were never told to) and lost your local copy of your database. It seems you wonder under the impression that kit log stored it for you so you probably contacted them and said "hey where is the backup of my file" and they looked at you funny. My guess is by what they meant by purge was occasionally due to the push to the internet they preform for you they could of had a temp copy probably based on the last time you clicked the "publish to internet" button.

From what has been said so far these seems to be more along the lines of what possibly happened.

With all that said lets change our focus to figuring out if there is absolutely anyway to recover your local copy.
What kind of computer crash did you experience? Hardware? Software? What type of machine and O.S
Have you had anyone try to retrieve the data from the hard drive in the machine that it was stored?
It seems like there was some miscommunication between you and kit log and potentially your understanding of how kit log works. Instead of focusing on the bad, lets try and see if there is any possible way we can save the data.

On another note, i think it would behove kit log to come up with an explicit document explaining proper backup procedures for their product as to help avoid this issue in the future.
Click to expand...
 
I am using the drive right now. What I did was a "recovery" operation, reloaded windows from another partition of the HD. Read my other post, don't you think I can get it from the semi retired laptop?

Lemmingman said:
I agree with this. I feel for you Don. Anyone working with computers long enough has had this happen. Computer crashes come in all shapes and sizes. If the discs still spin there might be hope to retrieve your files. Just because it stopped booting doesn't mean all your data is gone. Can you put your hands on the bad drive?
Click to expand...
 
DonFromTX said:
I think you might like Kitlog, I sure did. Just be warned that they can make your log into a blank page at will, and you must do continual backups to preserve your information, don't count on them like I did. If I had it to do over, I would print out everything at least once a month and add it to a notebook.
Click to expand...

As an aside to others who might be following this, you don't need to make a print copy (and it wouldn't help you if your database was corrupted or lost anyway). You can easily make a copy of the database file onto, say, an SD card or flash drive and then copy it back if the original has a problem. You'll only lose input between the last copy and the crash and restoring the database only takes minutes if not seconds.

Also, you can use the program without ever connecting to the Internet in which case they have NO copy of your work. The website is a bonus; the real log is always in your hands. The system was never intended to send data from the website to the log file on your PC; that would be dangerous, in fact.

I think the correct remedial action is to see if files from your crashed system can be restored, as mentioned by others. Also, for any computer users, this is an illustration why you should back up all your personal files regularly. If you don't know how, get a professional or a teenager to help you. Computers will crash, sooner or later ... and Murphy's law states that it will be at the worst possible time. If you have backups on separate media (a different disk or whatever) then even a bullet through your hard disk is not a disaster - just a huge inconvenience.
 
DonFromTX said:
I like your change of focus!
Here is what happened: My computer crashed, when I got it back up Kitlog was still there as always, except I was unable to post to the log. That started weeks of silly communication with Kitlog, most were solutions to problems I was not even having, all I needed to do is post. They knew from the very first I had no backup file. After three weeks of silly stuff, they then announced to me that they had "purged" the file, so now I could start a new log! That got my pacemaker to working overtime. Up to that time I could view the entire 4 years of entries, just could not post new ones.
OK, if I believe everything I am trying to understand being said here, lets try this one. I have a laptop I used to post to the log for some time, kept it by the plane. It has not even been turned on in maybe 6 months. Using the theories presented here, I should be able to turn it on, access my kitlog, and download that .mdl file that is so important, right?
Click to expand...

Don
Lets work out some vocabulary first so we are all on the same page

First off, you say your computer crashed.
Can you tell us what happened? Did it just not turn on one day? Did you get the blue screen of death? Did windows not boot? Please tell me exactly what you mean by crash.

Now for the most important question here. You say
got it back up
Click to expand...
What exactly do you mean by that?

For example
Did you just restart the thing and it came back to life or someone or you yourself formatted the machine and reinstalled the operating system to bring it back to life

These are really important questions to understand fully so we can tell you if your database file still exists or not.

Question :3

When you "got it back" was kit log still installed or did you or someone else have to go install it again?

When you "got it back" and you say you were not able to post to the log any further, could you see, edit and access all the log entries in the list from the last 4 years or were they not there? Could you just see them but not access them?

Does anyone else work on the computer for you or have access to it?

Is this the only computer you use for the airplane build correct? You say you have a laptop that you used to post to the log by the plane?
Is this not the machine that crashed or do you have more then one machine.

Here is where i think you are confused a tiny bit. When you say you post to the log, you can only do that via the computer the database is actually stored on. This is because as others have mentioned, you are not posting to the "internet" you are posting to a database file that exists in your case in only one location. It would not be possible to "post to the log" from more then one machine unless each machine had the database file and you were updating them together. They will not update automatically between each other because as had been said before, there is no connection between the internet and the database other then the little added bonus of being able to publish your database to the web for the world to see.

Im willing to sit here all day and help you with any suggestions i can think of we just need to start from scratch here with the story so we are all on the same page to try and get to the bottom of this.
 
Last edited:
ijustwannafly said:
Don
Lets work out some vocabulary first so we are all on the same page

First off, you say your computer crashed.
Can you tell us what happened? Did it just not turn on one day? Did you get the blue screen of death? Did windows not boot? Please tell me exactly what you mean by crash. I was infected by "Astromenda" and "Cinema Plus". Lavasoft have me five anti malware type programs to rid myself of those, it did not work, but became more instable, I was fearing a total crash, so backed up emails and programs. I had no idea or reason to believe that what was on the internet needed backup.

Now for the most important question here. You say
What exactly do you mean by that?

For example
Did you just restart the thing and it came back to life or someone or you yourself formatted the machine and reinstalled the operating system to bring it back to life

These are really important questions to understand fully so we can tell you if your database file still exists or not. I did what is called I think a "recovery". Put windows back on from a partition in the HD.

Question :3

When you "got it back" was kit log still installed or did you or someone else have to go install it again?As I recall, I reinstalled it, but was unable to post new entires.

When you "got it back" and you say you were not able to post to the log any further, could you see, edit and access all the log entries in the list from the last 4 years or were they not there? Could you just see them but not access them? I could see all four years of photos and entires just fine, but could not post new entries. Had I a clue of what was coming, I would have printed it all out, then there would have not been la problem.

Does anyone else work on the computer for you or have access to it?NO

This is the only computer you use for the airplane build correct? You say you have a laptop that you used to post to the log by the plane?
Is this not the machine that crashed or do you have more then one machine.
I have two machines, the laptop has not been used or even started for maybe 6 months, and I used it to post to Kitlog many times..
Here is where i think you are confused a tiny bit. When you say you post to the log, you can only do that via the computer the database is actually stored on. This is because as others have mentioned, you are not posting to the "internet" you are posting to a database file that exists in your case in only one location. It would not be possible to "post to the log" from more then one machine unless each machine had the database file and you were updating them together. They will not update automatically between each other because as had been said before, there is no connection between the internet and the database other then the little added bonus of being able to publish your database to the web for the world to see.
Click to expand...
I used to post to the log with either my desktop computer or the laptop, made no difference which one I was near at the time. Any post one makes, the final act is by Kitlog definition "Post to the Internet". Darned if I know how the data got from one computer to the other one.
 
DonFromTX said:
I used to post to the log with either my desktop computer or the laptop, made no difference which one I was near at the time. Any post one makes, the final act is by Kitlog definition "Post to the Internet". Darned if I know how the data got from one computer to the other one.
Click to expand...

So with all that being said, it seems this is what MAY have happened

You actually had 2 Database files. One on the desktop and one on the laptop

When you "send to the internet" you use your kit log login name to do so. What probably was happening is every time you posted to the internet from the different machines it did actually posted to the internet a snip it from each database on the internet. If you were to look at your log on the internet, it would appear to be a complete log. (before the incident)

I would be willing to bet my last dollar that if you could go back and look at each computer, you would notice that the log entries made on the laptop although were posted to the internet were never actually on your desktop. The log entires made on your desktop (again) although posted to the internet never were on your laptop. The only way they would of made it to both machines is if you manually did it which you have indicated you did not. So it seems you were posting to the internet from both machines and if you looked at the log on the internet it appeared complete however it was actually a culmination of 2 databases one on the desktop and the other on the laptop.

So without being there and seeing it here is what i suspect you have.
Since the database was not backed up (because you did not know to) when you did the recovery which is essentially a reinstall sort of on your main machine that database file is now gone. However, with that being said, the database file is probably still sitting on the laptop you used.
Here is the not so good news. The database on the laptop will 99% likely only have the log entires,pictures and verb-age that you made directly from the laptop and not the ones from the other machine.

I would be wiling to bet this is the case.

So the good news, you have a certain percentage of your log and not all is lost is my belief
The bad news IMHO is any entry made from the main machine is gone unless you did in fact put that database file somewhere. So the deciding factor on how bad this really is depends on how much posting you did from the laptop or the desktop
 
Last edited:
Access has an option to recover or repair a data file. If you can get to the data file you may be able to repair it from within Access.

While Access is used by everyone it can still become corrupted by common user things; like having the database open and then using the control-alt-delete keys to reboot without shutting the application down first.

Access developers have figured out ways around some of those things by not putting everything in the same basket. 'Real' databases have support for setting up backups, etc.; Access isn't really quite there. It's a good desktop GUI though.

Also, at least the older versions of Access can grow quickly with even though the data itself may not be there. Whatever space Access uses in 'doing its thing' is not returned. So if you start out with a 1 meg database and you do a query that consumes 100k and then you close the query; even though that query result is gone you now have a 1.1 meg database. There are ways to reset that space from within Access but I'm not sure how Kitlog uses it or how it is setup.

Follow the questions and suggestions of the folks, they're headed in the correct direction and all may not yet be lost. There sounds like there's some other technical support folks already helping you on this thread.

Good luck,

Bob
 
bhassel said:
Access has an option to recover or repair a data file. If you can get to the data file you may be able to repair it from within Access.

While Access is used by everyone it can still become corrupted by common user things; like having the database open and then using the control-alt-delete keys to reboot without shutting the application down first.

Access developers have figured out ways around some of those things by not putting everything in the same basket. 'Real' databases have support for setting up backups, etc.; Access isn't really quite there. It's a good desktop GUI though.

Also, at least the older versions of Access can grow quickly with even though the data itself may not be there. Whatever space Access uses in 'doing its thing' is not returned. So if you start out with a 1 meg database and you do a query that consumes 100k and then you close the query; even though that query result is gone you now have a 1.1 meg database. There are ways to reset that space from within Access but I'm not sure how Kitlog uses it or how it is setup.

Follow the questions and suggestions of the folks, they're headed in the correct direction and all may not yet be lost. There sounds like there's some other technical support folks already helping you on this thread.

Good luck,

Bob
Click to expand...

Hey Bob

Good suggestions but it seems this sounds like less of a corruption problem and simply a loss of the file.

With your access understanding, do you know if there is a chance that when he updated from his main desktop when he logged in to kit log with the laptop that it may have synced the two together?

If your not up to date on where we are at, go back and read a few posts above. I think i was able to extract enough information from don to come up with a plausible explanation for what is going on.

Im not sure if access has that capability or if kit log has that infrastructure setup. I would tend to doubt it.

One thing that is not so great news is that it appears kit log tech support did not do the best job at being patient and trying to understand the full extent of the situation. Im not sure if Don had mentioned to them that he had two computers or not. Don, if you did not tell them that, you should call them and ask them to walk you through the process of restoring whatever information either 50% or all of it stored on the laptop Database.
 
I really appreciate all your help guys, I really do.
For what it is worth, this is what Kitlog gave me from their backup files:
2n1tcfl.jpg
[/IMG]
 
If you reload Kitlog on your computer it will overwrite your existing .MDB file. You need to make a back up first, then access it once the new Kitlog is loaded. I recently had my Kitlog corrupted for some reason simultaneously with a Microsoft update. It was operating slowly, and I couldn't post to the internet. In addition, it was keeping my computer from shutting down. Matt Dralle sent me some instructions to download Kitlog again. I opened my existing program and save the database to a thumb drive. After downloading the new program, I opened the database from the thumb drive and everything was there.

Jerry Folkerts
 
Forensics

You guys are clearly experts. Just a thought. Is it possible to run forensics on the drive and find the files?
I had a drive crash once and since I was in the police team (Data Center Manager), they were nice enough to run EnCase on it. They recovered pretty much every file. No folder or structure but at least our life was not lost. It had every digital photo we had taken. Needless to say, I have multiple back up drives now and one is off site.
 
Don

Jump on the second machine the laptop and open up the working directory for kit log.
The directory where you installed the program. Probably under program files.

See if the .MDB file is there. If it is, find a way to immediately back it up on a thumb drive or some other means. Let me know what you find. I suspect this has either part of or all of your log. If its there it definitely has part of it.
 
OK, I am looking, so far have not found any mdb files. Is this the right place to look?
24qjm9y.jpg
[/IMG]
ijustwannafly said:
Don

Jump on the second machine the laptop and open up the working directory for kit log.
The directory where you installed the program. Probably under program files.

See if the .MDB file is there. If it is, find a way to immediately back it up on a thumb drive or some other means. Let me know what you find. I suspect this has either part of or all of your log. If its there it definitely has part of it.
Click to expand...
 
I'll let others try to help Don recover his file...however for everybody using Kitlog or any program with a valuable data file, here's what I do.

I install Dropbox (or Google Drive or any "cloud" storage program/service that copies a Windows directory to a cloud service). Then I put the valuable data file (kitlog.mdb, in this case) in that directory that is copied/synced to the cloud. Then tell your program (Kitlog, in this case) where its data file is.

This offers two advantages. One, it's continuously backed up to the cloud service and you can always get it back from there. Two, you can use any PC with Kitlog installed on it to update your log...just don't update simultaneously. So for instance, a desktop PC at home, and a laptop in your workshop/garage/hangar, can both be used to update your Kitlog entries. A change in one is noticed, copied up the the cloud, and down to the other computers immediately.

As far as Kitlog itself, my only gripe is it hasn't been updated for years. Otherwise it's decent enough.
 
Buggsy2 said:
I'll let others try to help Don recover his file...however for everybody using Kitlog or any program with a valuable data file, here's what I do.

I install Dropbox (or Google Drive or any "cloud" storage program/service that copies a Windows directory to a cloud service). Then I put the valuable data file (kitlog.mdb, in this case) in that directory that is copied/synced to the cloud. Then tell your program (Kitlog, in this case) where its data file is.

This offers two advantages. One, it's continuously backed up to the cloud service and you can always get it back from there. Two, you can use any PC with Kitlog installed on it to update your log...just don't update simultaneously. So for instance, a desktop PC at home, and a laptop in your workshop/garage/hangar, can both be used to update your Kitlog entries. A change in one is noticed, copied up the the cloud, and down to the other computers immediately.

As far as Kitlog itself, my only gripe is it hasn't been updated for years. Otherwise it's decent enough.
Click to expand...

Im a fan of dropbox myself and that is an excellent point
 
I am about to purchase the KitLogPro software but after reading this thread I am curious about something. I have Carbonite automatic backup on my computer so in the event that my computer was to crash, would the Carbonite save all of the content stored in my KitLogPro program?

Thanks!

Tom
 
Search

Don, If you haven't done this yet, try this:

Click your start button
Bring up the search tool
type in *.mdb
make sure the search is for the entire computer
Once the list of files comes up, look for the kitlog.mdb and save it to a USB if you can. Do the same for the laptop.

Compare the dates and see which is older.

I'm home all day tomorrow. If you want to call, I may be able to walk you through it.

905-261-6615

Cheers,

Don
 
tgraytn said:
I am about to purchase the KitLogPro software but after reading this thread I am curious about something. I have Carbonite automatic backup on my computer so in the event that my computer was to crash, would the Carbonite save all of the content stored in my KitLogPro program?

Thanks!

Tom
Click to expand...

Yes. All you have to backup is the single acess database with the MDB file.
 
Don, it looks like the Kitlog folks helped out somewhat and gave you a file with most of your information in it. What is the file extension of the file they sent? (.xls, .xlsx, .mdb, ???)

(I think it goes without saying, that whatever they sent you, please make backup copies. Lots of them. Several different places. Email it to family members and friends, even.)

If all the information is there like dates, things you typed, links to photos or photo file names, etc, and you still have all the photos saved somewhere with the same file names, then it is likely the database could be manually rebuilt.

I have not examined the structure of a Kitlog database (yet), but I doubt that it's incredibly complex. What I'm getting at is, perhaps it's possible to build a new .mdb file out of the backed up content that they sent and the photos that you still have, to recreate your entire build log that can be read by Kitlog again.

Feel free to PM or email me and we can talk about options.
 
Don Patrick said:
Don, If you haven't done this yet, try this:

Click your start button
Bring up the search tool
type in *.mdb
make sure the search is for the entire computer
Once the list of files comes up, look for the kitlog.mdb and save it to a USB if you can. Do the same for the laptop.

Compare the dates and see which is older.

I'm home all day tomorrow. If you want to call, I may be able to walk you through it.

905-261-6615

Cheers,

Don
Click to expand...



Don did you try this on the laptop?
 
Well the advice here was correct, the laptop displays all the log entries that were posted from the laptop. This does save a portion of my log, as soon as I can find the MDB file location and copy it.
Like a lot of problems, my own lack of understanding of how Kitlog actually works, turned out to be my downfall. It still seems sorta like there is some magic involved here someplace:D
 
I think Don was using the My KitLog method for his builder log, where the file would be stored on the server for MyKitLog.com. This is typically the method that allows you to use multiple computers that keep a common file synchronized. The reason I can go to MyKitLog.com and see other builders KitLog entries is because there is a copy of that builders's .mdb on their server.

There is no indication of what KitLog's data retention policy is for builder files on MyKitLog.com. In Don's case, it may be an issue of running the KitLog application after he restored his computer without the recovered .mdb and automatically posting a new empty .mdb to MyKitLog under his account. That would have overwritten the file he is trying to recover (which they may be referring to as the purge). If they have backups of their server they may be able to recover an older version of the .mdb that was posted on MyKitLog (depending on how much time has passed).

I only use the local PC version of KitLog and it works for what I need. I also have several backups of the .mdb file. Only feature enhancement I would like to see is the ability to have more than three pictures for each entry.

From the KitLog FAQ:
A. There are several ways to back up your KitLog Pro builder's log. You can save your builders' log (the .mdb file) to your hard drive, you can save your builder's log to a jump drive or thumb drive, you can burn your builder's log (the .mdb file) to a CD-ROM, and you can post your builder's log to the Internet using the My KitLog feature of the program.

John Salak
RV-12 #120116
N896HS
 
DonFromTX said:
It still seems sorta like there is some magic involved here someplace:D
Click to expand...

No seems like---------it is magic.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C. Clarke

Some of us just havent advanced along with the technology, that is all.
 
I have made comments within the text of the quoted message:
12vaitor said:
I think Don was using the My KitLog method for his builder log, where the file would be stored on the server for MyKitLog.com. This is typically the method that allows you to use multiple computers that keep a common file synchronized. The reason I can go to MyKitLog.com and see other builders KitLog entries is because there is a copy of that builders's .mdb on their server.

There is no indication of what KitLog's data retention policy is for builder files on MyKitLog.com. In Don's case, it may be an issue of running the KitLog application after he restored his computer without the recovered .mdb and automatically posting a new empty .mdb to MyKitLog under his account. That would have overwritten the file he is trying to recover (which they may be referring to as the purge). Not so. The entire log was available to everyone, including myself on my computer long after I had downloaded the Kitlog file (several times in fact) Kitlog announced to me that they had purged my file, and that was when it all went blank. They were able to capture their file on some backuo system and sent it to me, I made a photo of that earlier in this thread. Oddly enough however, that is a one way deal, there is no way to put that data back into Kitlog format according to them.). My anger at them is that they, with full knowledge that I had no mdb file backup, they decided to "erase" my four years of postings, without allowing me to make a printed copy of my logs.If they have backups of their server they may be able to recover an older version of the .mdb that was posted on MyKitLog (depending on how much time has passed).

I only use the local PC version of KitLog and it works for what I need. I also have several backups of the .mdb file. Only feature enhancement I would like to see is the ability to have more than three pictures for each entry.

From the KitLog FAQ:
A. There are several ways to back up your KitLog Pro builder's log. You can save your builders' log (the .mdb file) to your hard drive, you can save your builder's log to a jump drive or thumb drive, you can burn your builder's log (the .mdb file) to a CD-ROM, and you can post your builder's log to the Internet using the My KitLog feature of the program.

John Salak
RV-12 #120116
N896HS
Click to expand...
 
DonFromTX said:
Well the advice here was correct, the laptop displays all the log entries that were posted from the laptop. This does save a portion of my log, as soon as I can find the MDB file location and copy it.
Like a lot of problems, my own lack of understanding of how Kitlog actually works, turned out to be my downfall. It still seems sorta like there is some magic involved here someplace:D
Click to expand...

Don

Im pleased that you were able to recover half the log. Im also pleased that my troubleshooting was correct however, I'm saddened that a percentage of your log was lost.

Im glad we got it sorted out. Goodluck in the future and try exploring a few potential plans for back up scenarios
Regards Robert
 
I am disappointed that Don took out his frustrations in the public forum on this topic, but I can understand. That being said, there are some important facts that need to be made clear about what happened and how the Kitlog system works.

1) The kilog.mdb database file on the users PC is THE source for the builder's data. This file must be backed up regularly. If it is lost, the MyKitlog web site can no longer be updated.

2) The kilog.mdb database file is NOT backed up to the MyKitlog web site.

3) When the user does a Post to Internet, certain text and photos from the local PCs kitlog.mdb database file are uploaded to the web site to create the web pages. This is NOT a backup of the kitlog.mdb file, however.

4) In Don's case, we miscommunicated the situation and I thought that he had made a backup of his kitlog.mdb file. I purged his MyKitlog data so that he could successfully resync his local database back to the web server.

5) When I realized that Don did not have any local Kitlog data, I spent hours creating an Excel Spreadsheet that contained ALL of the pertinent data from the web site AND a created a folder of all of the photos that had been uploaded and I made this data available to Don to rebuild his local database. NO RAW DATA WAS LOST! Don simply needed to reenter in the data provided in the Spreadsheet and int the photo folder to rebuild his local kitlog.mdb file, then repost it the new kitlog.mdb to the mykitlog.com to rebuild the web site.

6) The MyKitlog.com web site has never been condered a "backup" of the user's Kitlog data. It is simply for displaying the user's log entries in the public forum.

7) The users local kitlog.mdb database file must be backed up regularly to protect against data loss.

8) By default, the kitlog database file is located in:

c:\Program Files\aeroware\Kitlog Pro v2.0\kitlog.mdb (32 bit systems)
or
c:\Program Files (x86)\aeroware\Kitlog Pro v2.0\kitlog.mdb (64 bit systems)


Matt Dralle
Matronics / Kitlog Pro
 
Matt Dralle said:
I am disappointed that Don took out his frustrations in the public forum on this topic, but I can understand. That being said, there are some important facts that need to be made clear about what happened and how the Kitlog system works.

1) The kilog.mdb database file on the users PC is THE source for the builder's data. This file must be backed up regularly. If it is lost, the MyKitlog web site can no longer be updated.

2) The kilog.mdb database file is NOT backed up to the MyKitlog web site.

3) When the user does a Post to Internet, certain text and photos from the local PCs kitlog.mdb database file are uploaded to the web site to create the web pages. This is NOT a backup of the kitlog.mdb file, however.

4) In Don's case, we miscommunicated the situation and I thought that he had made a backup of his kitlog.mdb file. I purged his MyKitlog data so that he could successfully resync his local database back to the web server.

5) When I realized that Don did not have any local Kitlog data, I spent hours creating an Excel Spreadsheet that contained ALL of the pertinent data from the web site AND a created a folder of all of the photos that had been uploaded and I made this data available to Don to rebuild his local database. NO RAW DATA WAS LOST! Don simply needed to reenter in the data provided in the Spreadsheet and int the photo folder to rebuild his local kitlog.mdb file, then repost it the new kitlog.mdb to the mykitlog.com to rebuild the web site.

6) The MyKitlog.com web site has never been condered a "backup" of the user's Kitlog data. It is simply for displaying the user's log entries in the public forum.

7) The users local kitlog.mdb database file must be backed up regularly to protect against data loss.

8) By default, the kitlog database file is located in:

c:\Program Files\aeroware\Kitlog Pro v2.0\kitlog.mdb (32 bit systems)
or
c:\Program Files (x86)\aeroware\Kitlog Pro v2.0\kitlog.mdb (64 bit systems)


Matt Dralle
Matronics / Kitlog Pro
Click to expand...

Matt

Everything you wrote above seems logical and i for one know that it is difficult sometimes to get across (especially via phone or email) technical information to someone that may or may not have a tech background.

Here is my concern as a NEW kit log user. I recently purchased it but have not really started using it.

You say you are

I am disappointed that Don took out his frustrations in the public forum on this topic, but I can understand.
Click to expand...

Well yea i can sure understand you are disappointed. Now that this thread is public, it could certainly change the amount of business you obtain from VAF. So if i were you, i would not be thrilled either. IMHO and after personally going back and forth with Don for nearly an entire day, i was able to extract every bit of information i needed to explain to him the situation. We also discovered the fact that he probably had half of his log in the MDB file stored on the other machine which proved to be true. As stated above, i have no deep understanding of kit log that you as the owner have and i was able to assist him with a few properly placed questions having no knowledge of kit log internals.

So i understand you are disappointed that it came to Dons post, but that is the way of the time we live in. Unhappy customers have the right to post things like this.
I truly believe after spending my own time trying to help Don and being successful in my diagnosis that should you have spent a little more time with Don you would have been able to instruct him in a more thorough manner and it would not have been made public.

Now this does not excuse the fact that Don did not understand how kit log works and did not do his diligence in understanding the program. I do think there are short comings on both sides of this story and respectfully i think as a professional business owner you need to take some responsibility for the fact that a customer of yours felt for whatever reason that his only recourse to get a problem solved was to put you in the public eye.

I will continue to examine kit log although i have purchased it already as an option for my logging but i do not have the highest hopes for it and because i have word press skills i may still go that route.
Lesson learned for all parties and I'm glad we were able to get Don at least some percentage of his DB back.
 
Normal Operations

I am just wading into this debate, however, I had a similar situation, and have always known that the DB is the primary file.

I have always held a copy and when there were issues, the website was purged, I re-uploaded and everything was fine.

This is my pet hate, so I will rant a little: in today's world people have to take some responsibility for their own actions and in my opinion the world is getting too much into the blame game.

In Oz we do not have the litigious nature of the states. I am glad and hope it stays this way. People need to own their actions and take some responsibility for learning about how things work before they use them. Not shirk the responsibility to others, so that when something happens they can claim deniability.

Now not saying that happened here, however, it has that feel.

It is a simple system, easy to understand how it works, it works well, and is easy to use.

Lets focus on the important things, Love, Understanding, Support, Goodwill to all Men/Women, yes?
 
Aiki_Aviator said:
I am just wading into this debate, however, I had a similar situation, and have always known that the DB is the primary file.

I have always held a copy and when there were issues, the website was purged, I re-uploaded and everything was fine.

This is my pet hate, so I will rant a little: in today's world people have to take some responsibility for their own actions and in my opinion the world is getting too much into the blame game.

In Oz we do not have the litigious nature of the states. I am glad and hope it stays this way. People need to own their actions and take some responsibility for learning about how things work before they use them. Not shirk the responsibility to others, so that when something happens they can claim deniability.

Now not saying that happened here, however, it has that feel.

It is a simple system, easy to understand how it works, it works well, and is easy to use.

Lets focus on the important things, Love, Understanding, Support, Goodwill to all Men/Women, yes?
Click to expand...

Andrew i do wholeheartedly agree with you. It is the users responsibility in general.
However with that being said IMHO a company should be able to offer support to a 77 year old man like Don after going through such a horrible experience of loosing his log regardless if its his fault or not. That is just being human and good business practice regardless of its his fault or not. Which is why i spent my whole day going back and forth with him trying to help. With that being said i in NO way am suggesting that Matt did not do that. Im just stating that yes accountability is good, great customer service is even better. Lets face it, consumers are not always going to be experts at products developed by a company.Accidents are going to happen
I absolutely agree that some accountability is required on the consumers end.
If you buy a prop from cato and forget a few prop bolts its not going to be their fault when it flys off right :D
God forbid of course
 
Last edited:
For some reason I feel the need to jump in on this thread and give a positive note about KitLog.
I started using the program right from the start of my build and it was great to be able to spend the evening in the shop and then shower and sit on the sofa before bed and enter my nights work in KitLog.
After completion of my project I created a thumb drive with all my important build documents including the backup .mdb file.
I found the program to be an quality, easy and inexpensive tool.
 
+1

MarkW said:
For some reason I feel the need to jump in on this thread and give a positive note about KitLog.
I started using the program right from the start of my build and it was great to be able to spend the evening in the shop and then shower and sit on the sofa before bed and enter my nights work in KitLog.
After completion of my project I created a thumb drive with all my important build documents including the backup .mdb file.
I found the program to be an quality, easy and inexpensive tool.
Click to expand...

Matt helped me, personally, to get setup with a new (at that time) OS. I for one like the software and feel that support is good. Some of us may need a little more help than others, but for the most part, every Kitlog issue I've read about here on VAF and elsewhere seems to get solved eventually, which is more than I can say for other softwares I own, which incidentally have a much larger revenues and workforces behind them.
 
Although not taken that way by Matt, my sole purpose in posting was to expose my misunderstanding and failures to maybe insure someone else did not make the mistakes I made.
Looking back, it took me no less than 12 emails to Matt over several weeks about wanting some help, from the very first and repeated often, he knew I had not made a backup file (the mdb stuff). Regardless, without letting me print out the entire file, he "purged" my file, ending four years of postings, that could have stayed up for others to use as guidance, and I could have started a new one. Most of all I would have had four years of log to show when it was time for an airworthiness certificate.
He did make me a data type file which I showed in an earlier post, so I could remake the entire four years of postings if I wanted. I don't think he realizes just how much work that would be, since I posted regularly. I have as now not figured out how to change the line of characters into a photo, if that is even possible.
As previously stated, I have really enjoyed the Kitlog process. If one is careful to backup all his data regularly, as the program states should be done, I would still recommend it to others. If there is something better, I have not yet found it.
 
Matt Dralle said:
8) By default, the kitlog database file is located in:

c:\Program Files\aeroware\Kitlog Pro v2.0\kitlog.mdb (32 bit systems)
or
c:\Program Files (x86)\aeroware\Kitlog Pro v2.0\kitlog.mdb (64 bit systems)


Matt Dralle
Matronics / Kitlog Pro
Click to expand...

I suspected that the purge was due to a misunderstanding because Matt had done that for me once when, for some reason, my site would no longer update so we started fresh. I just wanted to elaborate on point 8:

If you select File from the menu options at the main Kitlog window, you get a dropdown which includes 'Open Database' and 'Save Database As'. Using those options, you can place you main database in any folder (and rename it) and also easily back up your database. My log is in my Documents folder named 'Patrick Kelley.mdb' and I also periodically save a copy onto a flash drive. My Documents folder gets backed up regularly but I don't bother with program data; I can always reinstall programs and then restore my personal data which is mostly in Documents (Windows OS). So if my entire disk crashes, I reinstall software and restore the regular backup. But if I screw up just the Kitlog database, I only have to open the one from the flash drive and then save it over the corrupted one in documents. My points are 1) don't keep personal data in a program folder (the default for Kitlog and many other programs) and 2) even if you don't have a backup scheme for your disk drive you should at least keep a separate copy of important files on some other media, such as a flash drive.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top