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Help Vertical Power Develop New Product

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Peter, you'll see earlier in the thread that we are proposing to include a ground block with the system The PPS itself does not handle grounds, which is what I suspect you're asking about.

Thanks for the feedback so far. Keep it coming!
 
Mike S said:
Ah, the lure of electronic wizardry :eek:

Cost, weight, complexity, additional failure points, difficulty in troubleshooting problems..........

Give me a simple old key switch.
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Which is the most likely device to fail in the ignition circuit!!

I agree with simplicity, but sometimes the old mechanical stuff can't provide the functionality to fit the situation. My Rocket didn't have a key switch either (which is easily hot wired BTW) so anyone could hop in, flick the switches, and start the airplane.

If you park outside a lot (which I do not) then a hidden "kill" mechanism might be desirable as long as it doesn't KILL YOU!
 
f1rocket said:
Which is the most likely device to fail in the ignition circuit!!
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True, but it is easy to diagnose, easy to replace, easy to find a replacement, and if needed it is an easy thing to bypass in the field so you can fly home.:D

Electronic "wizardry-in-a-box" from a single vendor on the other hand:eek:
 
GPU Connection Follow-Up

Any chance I am not the only one with a need for a GPU connection? I would really like to be able run the systems on the ground without having to turn on the engine or run solely on battery (such as with programming the flight systems...).
 
PPS additional functions

Other features to include:

1. Ammeter to measure Current in circuit
2. Volt meter
3. Battery charging management system for light-weight Li batteries
 
Li

Hi Peter,

I saw this note form your post;

" 3. Battery charging management system for light-weight Li batteries"

Interesting - I wonder if this function should be part of the Li subsystem, though. That said, are you looking at any specific Li solution? This is of interest on my end.
 
BDFLYER said:
Hi Peter,

I saw this note form your post;

" 3. Battery charging management system for light-weight Li batteries"

Interesting - I wonder if this function should be part of the Li subsystem, though. That said, are you looking at any specific Li solution? This is of interest on my end.
Click to expand...


I would like that feature. I just got a Sorai lfx18 battery and am reading about the charger requirements.
 
OK, back to the Primary Power System.

We recently had several proto printed circuit boards (PCBs) fabricated to do initial testing of certain circuits and to see how the solid-state switches perform under load.

Below is a picture of the PCB in a temp chamber with a few of the solid-state switches mounted and some associated circuitry. You can see a large cable coming in and going out to several large batteries mounted outside the temp chamber. Externally, we?re simulating loads in the 250+ amp range and measuring circuit temperatures under various loads and various air temperatures ranging from -40 deg C up to 100 deg C. We?ll extend that range as we learn more.

PCB1.JPG


We contacted several starter manufacturers for guidelines. They recommend a maximum of 10 seconds to run the starter with a few minutes cool down time. So we are targeting 20 seconds+ as a design goal to run the starter circuit at 250+ amps.

The electronic circuit breakers (which act as switches and breakers together) for the alternator B-lead and the main bus are designed for continuous operation at 70+ amps. We?ll get to those soon and post here.
 
Mid-September Update

Things have been pretty busy, so sorry about not providing more recent updates.

We have developed the circuitry to simulate a shunt output. This allows you to connect the ammeter (electrical current readings) inputs on your EFIS directly to the PPS. Now we are working on testing it across a wide range of conditions to determine the accuracy of the readings.

Here's a picture of Josh's test rig to test different circuits and failure conditions.

amptest.png


We've also decided to defer the keypad and/or key fob idea indefinitely. This was initially part of the PPS, then we realized it could be a stand-alone system. Therefore it is not in the critical path of developing the PPS. Plus, there are automotive alternatives out there for ignition security.
 
October Update

Things always seem simple, but of course they are not!

We're testing a lot of different components to see what works the best.

Here are some of the test rigs that Josh has built. We use both batteries and a 200+ amp power supply to load up the circuits and measure various parameters. As you can see, the jigs are a bit rough but serve their intended purpose. Once we know what will work, then it goes to a more formal layout to match the final product.

testunits.JPG



BETA TESTING *****

Early next year we'll be asking for beta test volunteers - we'll need people with currently flying aircraft that can install and begin testing the unit right away. More details to follow, and if you are interested, please send an e-mail to support 'at' verticalpower.com.

Thanks!
 
Retrofit a current system

Marc,

How difficult do you see retrofitting a current system over to your new PPS system for the Beta testing?

I have a RV-8 with the rear mounted battery and not much room on the firewall but would be interested to give it a try.
 
p51dplt said:
Marc,

How difficult do you see retrofitting a current system over to your new PPS system for the Beta testing?

I have a RV-8 with the rear mounted battery and not much room on the firewall but would be interested to give it a try.
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I haven't tried it yet, so can't say for sure. :rolleyes:

It should go on or near where the starter contactor on the firewall is today. There are some drawings in the draft install manual (avail on our web site) that show how to wire the rear-battery system.

My main concern is the ability to get a drill in there to be able to drill the necessary mounting and pass-through holes in the firewall. We're planning to have a template available to make this easier.

If you are interested, please be sure to send an email to the above address so we can get you on the list. Thanks!
 
Pricing & Delivery

Any word on pricing & availability for this unit? Even ball park estimates would be useful for planning purposes.
 
We are not far enough along to announce such things. I estimate about 6 months for further development and testing.

We'll be able to provide more definitive information as we get closer.

Thanks for your interest, and I hope the timing works for you!
 
Hey folks...time to bring this thread back to the top because the engineering department is all over this one at Ballard Tech/Vertical Power. The interest is certainly there and we want to bring this to market to modernize the primary power system.

So, review the thread and let me know if anyone has additional input.

Thanks!
 
cjensen said:
So, review the thread and let me know if anyone has additional input.
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My input is to release it ASAP. :p I'm getting ready to mount a brand new firewall to my -4 with all new wiring, battery and avionics and would LOVE to wire the PPS at the same time I install the VP-X. :D
 
We are actively working on the PPS, but I can't promise any dates yet. I'm pushing for ASAP as well though!

:cool:
 
A couple suggestions

I've installed several VPX systems and I like them a lot, especially the ease of hooking up the trim and flap systems
About the only options pre-VPX builders have for this is to use the RC Allen stuff or roll their own
I think if you created a module for flaps and trim, you would have a decent market for it, since I have seen quite a few of the RC Allen parts go bad lately.
Also, maybe an essential bus module that could be installed in already flying planes
Just a thought
 
Mark Dickens said:
How about getting your support forum back on line?? There was some good stuff there and I'd hate to see it disappear!
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Your wish is my command! ;) Actually, we've been working on cleaning up the forums since they were hacked last fall for weeks now, and as of this past weekend, they are back online!

:cool:
 
OK, Now about those crimpers...

Now, when are you planning to get your online store back up and running?

I'd like to rent a pair of your crimpers, but no-one answered the support line. I did leave a message...
 
Hi Mark,

I called you back, left you a message as well. VP is no longer renting the crimpers as Ballard does not have the infrastructure in place to operate that way. You can purchase the shop-grade crimper from any of our dealers. The online VP store is gone and all sales are through the dealer network as well. We will be updating that page to show where to purchase certain products or tools soon.
 
cjensen said:
Hi Mark,

I called you back, left you a message as well. VP is no longer renting the crimpers as Ballard does not have the infrastructure in place to operate that way. You can purchase the shop-grade crimper from any of our dealers. The online VP store is gone and all sales are through the dealer network as well. We will be updating that page to show where to purchase certain products or tools soon.
Click to expand...

If they don't plan to rent the crimper, then you should point out that an additional $300+ will be needed to install the VPX unless you buy the pre-made harness. That's a significant amount of money!
 
Chad, not to be a downer but already we are seeing a reduction in customer service from this acquisition.

I hope that trend does not continue....hopefully your new boss reads this.

I suggest that VP require that their dealers have these crimpers available for rent/loan/purchase (at least the consumer grade version) if VP is not going to provide the service themselves.

The last thing VP needs is a bunch of folks trying to use inferior tools to make these crimps. This will result in failures of the connectors or worse.

There is a reason why Marc always insisted that the correct crimper be used.

I love my VP-X Pro. I invested in the future that Marc painted, hopefully the picture does not change too much over the next few months!
 
Hey guys, keep up the faith. Chad and Astronics want to do the right thing, we are just in a transition period now. Thanks for your patience!
 
As Marc said, and as I just posted here, the crimp tool will be available free of charge to use when you need it. As soon as I have the tools on hand, I will let everyone know that they are available for request.

Thanks!:cool:
 
The PPS is scheduled for a second engineering review at Ballard in April...will know more when the review is complete.
 
I'll see what the status is this week and post an update if available by the end of the week.

Also be aware that I am going to be unavailable May 3-18 for vacation, so support and info will go through my backup for those two weeks and it will be somewhat limited.

I will answer all calls and emails when I return.

:)
 
Well, it's the 19th.....welcome back from vacation Chad. Hope you've got some exciting news for us this week on the release of the PPS. :)
 
Had a GREAT vacation...still waiting for an engineering update on the PPS though. I emailed for an update yesterday, so hopefully soon.

I can say that we are looking at 4-6 months for deliveries to start...probably closer to 6.
 
6 months to get PPS?

cjensen said:
I can say that we are looking at 4-6 months for deliveries to start...probably closer to 6.
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UGH.......well, I was hungry for lunch. :(:(:( Guess I'll be back to drilling a lot more holes in my new RV-4 firewall. So much for all that waiting. :eek: So bummed right now.
 
Definitely still on the board Dan. Engineering review was complete a couple of weeks ago and we are sourcing parts now. It's coming...albeit slowly. :cool:
 
I've basically gutted my RV-8s electrical system, and this is the *perfect* time to buy something like this for, IDK - Christmas? Any word?
 
this was in the November newsletter:


Work is steady on the Primary Power System (PPS), and a new form factor has been developed by the engineering group at Ballard Technology. The rework of the PPS has enabled Ballard to come up with a very reliable product that will easily outperform the traditional parts and pieces of a primary electrical system.


We are looking forward to keeping you updated on the development of this new product, so keep a watch on the Vertical Power Facebook page as that will be the first place Vertical Power customers will learn of the product's progress.
 
pilot2512 said:
...that will easily outperform the traditional parts and pieces of a primary electrical system.
Click to expand...

I'm curious what there is to a couple of contactors to "outperform". I'm a fan of VP, having got their last VP-200, but really wish their efforts would continue in that direction (flight automation and virtual switches), not just solid-state versions of existing technology (circuit breakers and contactors).
 
Not far

MolsonB said:
Been a few months, haven't heard of any updates yet...
Click to expand...

I spoke with Chad a couple of weeks ago. It is an on going project and will be brought to market when everything is ready. I believe he said there will be some operational by Sun n' Fun. Hopefully he'll chime in here with an official update.
 
I was out at Ballard for our national meeting last week and we were given a presentation on new product updates. The PPS is getting closer...as Darwin mentioned, we are not going to release this to market until it is ready. The great thing about the development of it at this point, is that we have some of the best engineering minds in the industry working on this to be sure it will be the most reliable system made...and they are working on a certified version through a sister company of Ballard Tech, so we are serious about bringing a great product to you.

The non-certified version will be ready for us well ahead of the certified version, and I'm hopeful to have a display model of it at AERO and Sun N Fun, and a working model at AirVenture.

I promise to provide updates on the PPS as soon as I have them. The lead engineer will be providing me with updates and I'll pass them along. It's gonna be pretty dang awesome...:cool:
 
Chad, great to hear! :)

Over 26,000 views on this thread, so there must be some interest!
 
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