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Delrin Aileron Stop

RVG8tor

RVG8tor

Well Known Member
For any RV-8 builder who used this method for the aileron stop instead of the plans; what size for rod did you use. I bough some 7/8, but then read where some other model RVs were using 1/2. I am working these this weekend and want to know if the 7/8 will be a waste of my time. Just eyeballing where the stop would be per the plans the 7/8 looks like it will work, I compared where the 970 washer was in relation to the aileron bracket on the spar, and it was close. Thanks in advance for any help. I read also that some have used nylon bushing bought at Lowe's or Home Depot, anyone know the difference between this type of nylon and Derlin?

Cheers
 
This may help...

I don't remember the size I ended up using as I bought several sizes from Home Depot or Lowes. The cost was minimal so I picked up a few of them.

I got the Idea from Mickey's site.
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040924215600851&query=aileron%2Bstop

It is MUCH easier than Van's method and Van's doesn't seem to mind either.

Hope this helps!

(Hey Mickey, if you read this, how about updating your page with the size you used. I'll measure mine and post it here.)
 
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I used some nylon bushings from Home Depot. I needed two of them to get the proper radius:

IMG_8468.JPG


Total cost was < $2.00 for both sides! Gotta love it.
 
Course correction

I have read up and know how this stop works The information I am trying to get is what OD did you end up with on your stop. (RV-8) So if you know please let me know what OD you ended up with at the final stop.

The only post so far that gave a size was 12.5mm which is about .49 inches, it is for an RV-7 but they might be the same. I have read that .5 inches was not adequate for the RV-8.

Anyone who is actually flying with these stops have any ware issues with the stops?

Thanks again guys!

Cheers
 
Mike you don't have to address that until final assembly... so if you're not there yet, I'd just leave it until then... You'll be able to tell which diameter to use when you find deflection angle w/o any stops.. I see no reason to reduce significantly that max deflection angle..
 
Mike-

From what I understand, the RV-7 and RV-8 share the same wings and flaps -- I don't know if they share the same travel limits though. FYI, I ended up needing a 0.75" diameter nylon bushing to get the proper limits on my ailerons. You really have to wait until your wings are mated to the fuselage and rigged to properly figure out exactly what you need. If you do it now, you might not nail it and would have wasted valuable building time!
 
Great input

To all thanks for the inputs, I guess I will wait till later, which is OK by me, I would rather not do things twice. At least the 7/8 derlin will keep and did not cost too much. It is time to get off the forum, get a latte and get to work in the shop!

Cheers
 
For what it's worth.

From this web site FrankH who posts here quite often has used the type of stop you're talking about in this thread. When I was talking to him he told me half inch worked for him. I went out and bought some half inch spacers that have yet to be installed. You could probably send him a PM and ask.
 
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Cut down

RVG8tor said:
To all thanks for the inputs, I guess I will wait till later, which is OK by me, I would rather not do things twice. At least the 7/8 derlin will keep and did not cost too much. It is time to get off the forum, get a latte and get to work in the shop!

Cheers
Click to expand...

Clamp them in a bolt, and chuck it in your drill press. You should able to cut it down to any size easily with a file....

gil A
 
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OK, I might be slow so I need to ask.

What is wrong with the stop Van's calls for in the plans?

It is very easy to install and simply works. Heck, I installed mine while the wings were on the cradle in my basement and they worked out fine.
 
N941WR said:
What is wrong with the stop Van's calls for in the plans?
Click to expand...

Nothing is wrong with the way the Vans says to do it. The -9 may be different but on the -8, the nylon/delrin stop is much easier to install and get the angles just right.
 
Adjustment..

RatMan said:
Nothing is wrong with the way the Vans says to do it. The -9 may be different but on the -8, the nylon/delrin stop is much easier to install and get the angles just right.
Click to expand...

...and can be adjusted without drilling out rivets....:)

gil A
 
RatMan said:
Nothing is wrong with the way the Vans says to do it. The -9 may be different but on the -8, the nylon/delrin stop is much easier to install and get the angles just right.
Click to expand...
I think they are the same. To install my stock stops, I drilled one hole, clecoed it in place, moved the aileron until it contacted the stop, adjusted the stop until it was flush with the aileron, drilled the second hole, and then riveted it in place. That was about as easy as it gets, IMHO.
 
Glad the plan was simple for you.

N941WR said:
I think they are the same. To install my stock stops, I drilled one hole, clecoed it in place, moved the aileron until it contacted the stop, adjusted the stop until it was flush with the aileron, drilled the second hole, and then riveted it in place. That was about as easy as it gets, IMHO.
Click to expand...

Bill,

Since I started this thread I thought I would respond. I respect that you think the plan aileron stop was easy. However for someone who is just looking at this the DWG for the first time it is not very clear, just where do you decide to drill that first hole? I do understand that you can then pivot the stop around the first hole then mark and drill the second. But what if you get the first hole wrong, now you have a hole to repair. With the derlin method if you get it wrong you mill it to the proper size or start a new one, no major reworks. When I read about the derlin stop I thought that it was very simple, no guess work, and there was no metal angle to get hung up on something if god forbid it came loose. I have not done it yet but since there is a full size DWG of this area I can make a template that will show me what deflection there would be in the aileron hinge before it hits the Van's stop in the DWG, from there I can determine a size for the derlin stop I will need.

So from my perspective the milling and cutting of the Van's stop, then the TLAR method for the initial set is not as simple as milling the derlin stop. Just my take, it will be even easier if someone who is flying an -8 with this type of stop can tell me what size derlin stop they ended up with. I like the part where new ideas are attempted and passed on via this forum. To whoever thought of the derlin stop first thank you.

Cheers
 
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delrin stop diameter

Hi,

I'm not yet flying, but I just went down and mic'ed my delrin stops, and they came out at a hair over 1/2 inch (0.505").

Regards,
Mickey
 
RVG8tor said:
... However for someone who is just looking at this the DWG for the first time it is not very clear, just where do you decide to drill that first hole?
Click to expand...
Mike,

I think this is the difference in the kits. On the -9 there are two pre-punched holes on the inboard aileron bracket. (Unfortunately I didn't take a good picture of this during construction.) If you expand the following picture, you can just make out two rivet holes 1/2 down aileron bracket. The aileron bracket is just above the ear muffs, which are hanging on the outboard flap bracket. Those holes are there for aileron stop.

Then it was just a matter of making the stop per the plans.

My ignorance is showing as I assumed those holes were pre-punched in all the wing kits, thanks for the education. Man, Van's really spoiled me!
 
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I used 0.5" delrin rod and it came out ok. In the past it has been said that this method although easier may place to much stress on the AN3 bolt so later I may use the delrin as a guide to where to place the plans version of the stop.

Greg
RV8 Renesis Rotary
 
My method to find the size

Mind you I have not made the Derlin stops yet but this is what I did to get the first hack on the size. The DWG in the plans for this area is full size, so I traced the bracket that is on the Aileron, the top of which will get the Derlin stop. I then cut this out, and with a push pin at the pivot point, rotated the template until it hit the Van's stop (yellow highlight in photo). I taped the template in place then traced the line of the aileron hinge (one that attaches to the rear spar) through the template. The made a perpendicular line though the upper aileron hinge point (this gets the push rod and bushing the Derlin stop will go around. Took a compass and made the circle tangent to the aileron hinge (green highlight). As you can see from the photo it looks like a Derlin stop that is .660 inches will be the ideal size. Of course this assumes the Van's stop is in the correct location and there is not much variation based on how the ailerons are built. I think this measurement will be a starting point for the prototype then I can refine from there. Time will tell how this idea works out, this was just my technique. It does look like a standard 1/2 inch Derlin rod might be close enough but since I already have the 7/8 rod I think I will just try to mill it down to .660. Sorry the pictures turned out fuzzy!

Cheers

 
Is there a special reason to put the alum. bushing in the delrin stop?
Wouldn't it work as well to just put the stop on the aileron bolt without the bushing?

Glenn Wilkinson
N654RV @ MLJ
 
glenn654 said:
Is there a special reason to put the alum. bushing in the delrin stop?
Wouldn't it work as well to just put the stop on the aileron bolt without the bushing?

Glenn Wilkinson
N654RV @ MLJ
Click to expand...

The nylon spacer I bought from Lowes already had a hole in the middle. As it turned out, that hole was a smidge too big so I used the bushing to get the hole just right.

I see no reason why the spacer without the bushing wouldn't work just as well if the hole is the correct size for the bolt.
 
Aileron Stops

I used some alum bar stock to machine a set of stops. The stops were very close to 0.50 inches in diameter and I used my digital level to set the travel as indicated in the plans.
I have 200 hours on the RV-8 and they have worked flawlessly, I feel and see a positive stop during preflight walk-around and feel the stops during flight control check on the ground. If the backseater has a cushion or leg in the way, I can tell before take off.
In the words of Kevin Horton, my favorite way to accomplish a task - cheap, light and simple.

FM
Bruce "FM" Edwards
RV-8 N391FM
200 hrs
 
I built mine out of polycarbonate, simply because I wanted them clear and it was the most robust clear material that I had available. They are 5/8" (.625"), and work quite nicely. I found it a much easier solution than the stop called for in the plans.
 
How about an update on the Nylon or Delrin Aileron Stops

Its been a couple/few years since this thread started on Delrin or Nylon bushings for the aileron stops. I'm about to make aileron stops on my 7A and would like to know from those who are using them if there are any lessons learned. Questions include:

Is the aileron hinge bolt bending from the load on the bushing style stops?
Are they cracking, breaking, rubbing, and needing replacement?
Is there a new material or source for buying either Delrin or Nylon bushings?
Does the aluminum spacer have to go inside the Delrin/Nylon stop?
Would you do it again?
Is there any new good renewed reasons to use Van's aluminum stop as shown on plan?
Is there any renewed reasons to NOT use the nylon/delrin stops?

thanks for an update.
 
After 890 Hours....

On my RV-8 (which is the same as the -7, but different than the -9's....)

sglynn said:
Is the aileron hinge bolt bending from the load on the bushing style stops? No
Are they cracking, breaking, rubbing, and needing replacement? Nope
Is there a new material or source for buying either Delrin or Nylon bushings? Haven't looked - haven't had any reason to
Does the aluminum spacer have to go inside the Delrin/Nylon stop?I did - haven't tried it without, but maybe someone else has.
Would you do it again? Yup!
Is there any new good renewed reasons to use Van's aluminum stop as shown on plan? I don't have a reason to do so - I haven't looked at the plans for the -3 we are buiding to see if the Delrin stop will work - but if it will, I'll do the same thing.
Is there any renewed reasons to NOT use the nylon/delrin stops? None that i have seen.
Click to expand...

The fact is - you will hardly ever come in contact with the stop in flight, and I can't imagine that you will ever hit it "hard" in flight. The stop is more likely to come into play on the ground, in a wind, if you don't secure the controls.

Paul
 
Token disclaimer: mine is a long way from flying, so have zero actual experience

But here's my thought on,
Does the aluminum spacer have to go inside the Delrin/Nylon stop?
Click to expand...

When I decided to do the delrin stop with the AL spacer, in case the delrin was to fail(highly unlikely) the AL would still maintain the rod end in the correct position.
Here's a pic
RV-7build004.jpg
 
Delrin stops

sglynn said:
Its been a couple/few years since this thread started on Delrin or Nylon bushings for the aileron stops. I'm about to make aileron stops on my 7A and would like to know from those who are using them if there are any lessons learned. Questions include:

Is the aileron hinge bolt bending from the load on the bushing style stops?
Are they cracking, breaking, rubbing, and needing replacement?
Is there a new material or source for buying either Delrin or Nylon bushings?
Does the aluminum spacer have to go inside the Delrin/Nylon stop?
Would you do it again?
Is there any new good renewed reasons to use Van's aluminum stop as shown on plan?
Is there any renewed reasons to NOT use the nylon/delrin stops?

thanks for an update.
Click to expand...
I've had mine in for a year now and highly recommend this method. It's much simpler than the angle stops.
No bending, cracking rubbing, or any problems whatsoever, and I often hit the stops when doing rolls (not much on finesse yet :)
IIRC, I used 0.5"OD rod and drilled it out for the aluminum spacer. If you cut the delron to the correct length, the aluminum spacer is definitely optional.
After hassling with drilling out solid rod, one day while browsing the local H/W store, I found nylon/delrin bushings (not sure which - look and feel the same) that were 1/2" OD, don't remember the hole dia. With those, you just cut them to length, and maybe drill the center. The center may be 1/4", so you'd have to use the aluminum spacer to get the ID down to 3/16".
 
My 7A is nowhere near flying yet, but I didn't want to muck around with the stops the way the plans called for, and really liked the Delrin stop solution. I just bought a bunch of Delrin rods in various diameters and had a friend chuck them up in his lathe and bore out the center to a press fit diameter for an aluminum bushing. He then just cut them into about 1" lengths and when I get ready to use them, I'll just cut 'em down to size.

My neighbor put them on his -8 and they work beautifully. Maybe someday I'll get to put *mine* in :)
 
Ok here too

Hi.

I agree with all Paul's comments. No problems here either and I've installed them on my second RV too.

They really are made for the KISS-principle.
 
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