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Van's Update and Kit Crating Schedule Changes

greghughespdx

Well Known Member
Advertiser
A brief update regarding email communications we have sent today to those customers with kits on order, where the delivery dates for those kits had to be adjusted due to a handful of reasons that have impacted our ability to meet the original dates.

A combination of international shipping and partner manufacturing delays have slowed the delivery of "Quick Build" kits to Van’s. Container shipping delays can have significant downstream impacts on finished kit delivery timing as well as labor availability. As a result, we've had to adjust quick build kit estimated crating dates and we have communicated the related schedule change to affected customers via email.

For "Standard" kits, due to a series of unanticipated internal and external manufacturing delays associated with critical components for certain kits, we have had to extend estimated crating schedules for some kits. A number of delays - related to materials acquisition, the resulting manufacturing impacts, and delays with third-party manufacturers - have combined to slow completion of the affected kits. We have communicated the related schedule change to affected customers via email.

For a handful of customers, we'd requested and received final payment for their order in anticipation the previously-planned crating window. Due to the unplanned delays and schedule shift, we have offered those customers the option of receiving a refund of their final payment amount until we get closer to crating their kit. Those customers will maintain their place in line and we will reach out to them for the final payment when we get close to the new dates and have the critical parts required to pack the kit.

This is frustrating for all of us. We are working to improve the situation and have made meaningful strides on our internal processes related to forecasting, planning, and execution of our in-house manufacturing; crating of kits; truck shipping; and many other aspects of what we do. We continue to work on communication tools and workforce hiring (which has also proven challenging, although we think we are seeing some improvements in work force availability). We are working with and pushing our third-party vendors and suppliers to communicate schedules and deliver, and we will maintain that pressure on those parties.

We will be posting a video update next week, covering the current environment and some of the changes we've been able to make. When that video is up I will be sure to link it here on VAF, of course.

We appreciate the community support, and the feedback we receive. Thank you!
 
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A brief update regarding email communications we have sent today to those customers with kits on order, where the delivery dates for those kits had to be adjusted due to a handful of reasons that have impacted our ability to meet the original dates.

A combination of international shipping and partner manufacturing delays have slowed the delivery of "Quick Build" kits to Van’s. Container shipping delays can have significant downstream impacts on finished kit delivery timing as well as labor availability. As a result, we've had to adjust quick build kit estimated crating dates and we have communicated the related schedule change to affected customers via email.

For "Standard" kits, due to a series of unanticipated internal and external manufacturing delays associated with critical components for certain kits, we have had to extend estimated crating schedules for some kits. A number of delays - related to materials acquisition, the resulting manufacturing impacts, and delays with third-party manufacturers - have combined to slow completion of the affected kits. We have communicated the related schedule change to affected customers via email.

For a handful of customers, we'd requested and received final payment for their order in anticipation the previously-planned crating window. Due to the unplanned delays and schedule shift, we have offered those customers the option of receiving a refund of their final payment amount until we get closer to crating their kit. Those customers will maintain their place in line and we will reach out to them for the final payment when we get close to the new dates and have the critical parts required to pack the kit.

This is frustrating for all of us. We are working to improve the situation and have made meaningful strides on our internal processes related to forecasting, planning, and execution of our in-house manufacturing; crating of kits; truck shipping; and many other aspects of what we do. We continue to work on communication tools and workforce hiring (which has also proven challenging, although we think we are seeing some improvements in work force availability). We are working with and pushing our third-party vendors and suppliers to communicate schedules and deliver, and we will maintain that pressure on those parties.

We will be posting a video update next week, covering the current environment and some of the changes we've been able to make. When that video is up I will be sure to link it here on VAF, of course.

We appreciate the community support, and the feedback we receive. Thank you!


Greg thanks for the update.
Since these kit times are being pushed 6+ months out from original lead times, I propose a compromise that I hope you would consider. I am proposing this for RV10 finishing kits but could be helpful to other kits as well. Can we prioritize the kits to people that actually are at the stage that needs the finishing kit? I know a lot of builders that have finishing kits sitting because they are not even close to needing them. Then there are builders like myself that have run out of parts to keep building. I believe on vans part it would just require some communication via email or phone to the next builders in the queue. I talked to Rian while in line for the banquet about even just sending partial kits so we can keep up some progress, ie: just the RV10 door kits would provide alot of progress work to keep going with some progress. Just having the doors would allow us to fit the doors, latching mechanism,weatherstripping, cabin top interior painting, cabin top final attach, interior painting and window installs. That’s a lot of work that could take months and months. Rian said he would be up for such changes to keep some builders in progress mode. Let me know what you think after some internal discussion with your team.

Joe
#40339
RV10 builder x2
 
Greg.

As someone who received that email this morning, thank you for the update! It's all about open communications. As a customer, there is nothing more frustrating than not knowing.

I appreciate all the hard work that Vans is doing, behind the scenes, to keep things moving.
 
For "Standard" kits, due to a series of unanticipated internal and external manufacturing delays associated with critical components for certain kits, we have had to extend estimated crating schedules for some kits. A number of delays - related to materials acquisition, the resulting manufacturing impacts, and delays with third-party manufacturers - have combined to slow completion of the affected kits. We have communicated the related schedule change to affected customers via email

Thank you for the update and keeping us all in the loop. Being in an industry that is heavily tied to complex international supply chains, I totally understand and sympathize with what you guys are dealing with. Given that unanticipated production delays typically delay everything else in the production queue, what can we expect in terms of delays for kits that did not have crating dates pushed back yet, but that are presumably made by the same factory?

In my case, I placed an RV-8 empennage kit order in early July that was recently assigned a mid Nov. to mid Dec. crating date. Is this likely to be pushed back too? I'm starting to consider buying a used kit from someone else so that I don't lose many months of valuable time, though I would really like to avoid that route. Is it possible to send out partial kits so we can work while waiting for the rest of the parts?
 
I have a few backordered wing kit parts left to have delivered. And I have the fuselage kit still several months from a crating date. I will assume that since I didn't get an email that I am not affected.
 
Hmph. I was waiting for a call letting me know my wings were ready and then found the referenced email in inbox instead. Bummer. (Wings were scheduled for deliver Aug 15-Sept 5, or close to that...)

However, I did just pick up my fuselage box earlier this week. I placed the order for it when they were supposed to be 14 months out. That was only 6 or so months ago.

With my empennage looking like it'll be complete in a week or two, I have some thinking to do. Wait for 3+ months for the wings, or go out of order and see if I can start on the fuse.

The aggravating thing is, I don't think I really have the space to go out of order. Plan was to do the wings and store them up high or on the walls. Can't much do that with a nearly complete fuselage...
 
The aggravating thing is, I don't think I really have the space to go out of order. Plan was to do the wings and store them up high or on the walls. Can't much do that with a nearly complete fuselage...

This is what I plan to do, the fuselage before the wings. For what it worth, the first several steps in the fuselage seem to be relatively flat bulkheads. Also, you'll get to hold a firewall in front of you and pretent you are an airplane! Try doing that with the wings!
 
Just having the doors would allow us to fit the doors, latching mechanism, weatherstripping, cabin top interior painting, cabin top final attach, interior painting and window installs. That’s a lot of work that could take months and months.

I'm waiting on a -10 wing kit, and not there yet, but it was surprising that the doors are not included in the fuselage kit. Electrogunner's thought seems like a good one.

My guess is Vans knows most, if not everyone, in the aerospace manufacturing biz at this point, but... I'm sure the community would be interested to know what parts or materials are creating the headaches? There are enough smart, motivated and connected people in this community that I'm sure they could be mined to identify additional qualified manufacturing partners, alternative material sources etc?

Maybe Vans could make some of it's procurement process more public on the site so the community can help understand and provide ideas for solutions? Bare minimum it would help put existing vendors and suppliers on notice and a little competition is good for everyone.

While I can appreciate the cottage industry vibe and loyalty to long-term partners, Vans is no longer a small company. @Greg stated they are getting tough on suppliers and vendors but if there are other partners out there who can meet the demand and quality requirements then unfortunately "it's just business" for those who can not scale the same way Vans is scaling.
 
I'm waiting on a -10 wing kit, and not there yet, but it was surprising that the doors are not included in the fuselage kit. Electrogunner's thought seems like a good one.

My guess is Vans knows most, if not everyone, in the aerospace manufacturing biz at this point, but... I'm sure the community would be interested to know what parts or materials are creating the headaches? There are enough smart, motivated and connected people in this community that I'm sure they could be mined to identify additional qualified manufacturing partners, alternative material sources etc?

Maybe Vans could make some of it's procurement process more public on the site so the community can help understand and provide ideas for solutions? Bare minimum it would help put existing vendors and suppliers on notice and a little competition is good for everyone.

While I can appreciate the cottage industry vibe and loyalty to long-term partners, Vans is no longer a small company. @Greg stated they are getting tough on suppliers and vendors but if there are other partners out there who can meet the demand and quality requirements then unfortunately "it's just business" for those who can not scale the same way Vans is scaling.

I’m venturing to say that if vans goes to other suppliers for the parts it’s gonna cost them more, which doesn’t work for their bottom line when we have already ordered the kits at a certain price. Just a guess of course, I could be way off and probably am. I know in the electrical industry that the “difficult to get” parts are out there, you just need to pay for them.
 
A combination of international shipping and partner manufacturing delays have slowed the delivery of "Quick Build" kits to Van’s.

Greg, I presume the QB partner problems are with the new manufacturer in Brazil? How can I find out where my QBs are being built?

I received an upbeat email announcing that my QBs are now "Being Assembled" yet, oddly, my estimated crating window that was [Sept 2022 - Jan, 2023] was updated to [Sept 2022 - JUNE, 2023.] No way assembly should take that long, right? (or someone isn't making any money.) Is shipping back to the states really THAT unpredictable? ...Or, hopefully, it is a typo and hasn't changed from January.
 
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Greg, I presume the QB partner problems are with the new manufacturer in Brazil? How can I find out where my QBs are being built?

Both facilities build the kits. We estimate when they will be back in our factory, factor in quality process time and crating time, and from there we ship. There's no way for us to tell you with certainty at this stage which facility your kit will be from.

I received an upbeat email announcing that my QBs are now "Being Assembled" yet, oddly, my estimated crating window that was [Sept 2022 - Jan, 2023] was updated to [Sept 2022 - JUNE, 2023.] No way assembly should take that long, right? (or someone isn't making any money.) Is shipping back to the states really THAT unpredictable? ...Or, hopefully, it is a typo and hasn't changed from January.

The "being assembled" status means the parts for your kit model have been shipped to the QB facilities, and are in the queue to assemble along with other customers' kits in the same batch (of the same kit model, and other models). The start and end dates are our best estimate for that entire batch. A container of outbound RV kits includes about 100 kits worth of parts, which takes several months to build and then return to Van's. Some kits in the batch that includes your kit will come back as early as this fall, and we expect the last of the kits in the batch to come back to us sometime around June. As we refine the specific dates for your individual kit, we will update that info in the timelines that we communicate to you.

Shipping really is that unpredictable right now, both for outbound and return containers. For each one container of outbound parts that go to a QB assembly facility, we receive about 10-11 containers of inbound assembled QB kits.
 
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Both facilities build the kits. We estimate when they will be back in our factory, factor in quality process time and crating time, and from there we ship. There's no way for us to tell you with certainty at this stage which facility your kit will be from.



The "being assembled" status means the parts for your kit model have been shipped to the QB facilities, and are in the queue to assemble along with other customers' kits in the same batch (of the same kit model, and other models). The start end ed dates are our best estimate for that entire batch. A container of outbound RV kits includes about 100 kits worth of parts, which takes several months to build and then return to Van's. Some kits in the batch that includes your kit will come back as early as this fall, and we expect the last of the kits in the batch to come back to us sometime around June. As we refine the specific dates for your individual kit, we will update that info in the timelines that we communicate to you.

Shipping really is that unpredictable right now, both for outbound and return containers. For each one container of outbound parts that go to a QB assembly facility, we receive about 10-11 containers of inbound assembled QB kits.
I greatly appreciate you taking the time to clarify all this.
 
RV7 Wing Kit

Hi Greg,

i didn´t receive an email but my rv7 wing kit seems to delay again.
It jumped from an "esimated crating date" in august to "parts being produced in" november....

#74895
186518
RV-7/7A WING KIT
Parts Being Produced Nov 28 2022 - Dec 19 2022.

Is this date reliable?

Patrick
 
We will be posting a video update next week, covering the current environment and some of the changes we've been able to make. When that video is up I will be sure to link it here on VAF, of course.

We appreciate the community support, and the feedback we receive. Thank you!

Greg, since the referenced "next week" is now last week, are you going to actually release the update? I realize you have a lots a balls in the air and hopefully one of them is making progress on your plane.
 
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