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  #31  
Old 08-24-2021, 12:56 PM
Amadeus Amadeus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basalt, CO/Lexington, KY
Posts: 83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
What is the ACTUAL wording in your OpLims? Specifically.
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Now I'm really confused. I've never actually looked at this as I have been told with the utmost certainty that the RV-12iS is NOT eligible for IFR flight yet right there in #23 it says "Instrument flight operations authorized..."
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Purchased N112DR E-LSA flying with 28.2 hours - Thank you David (CraftingN112DR) for putting your skills, knowledge and attention to detail in this RV-12iS!
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  #32  
Old 08-24-2021, 01:46 PM
FlyingDiver FlyingDiver is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Attachment 15047

Now I'm really confused. I've never actually looked at this as I have been told with the utmost certainty that the RV-12iS is NOT eligible for IFR flight yet right there in #23 it says "Instrument flight operations authorized..."
The standard OpLims changed about 4 years ago, as best I can tell.

I haven't decided if I'm going to go with the Garmin IFR Avionics package, or the Dynon and add the GPS-175 after. Going Dynon will be cheaper, but I won't have a NAV receiver. I already have my Instrument rating, so I don't need the NAV for the test. And I would probably never use it. I only want to be IFR equipped for getting above/below the clouds here in SWFL. No intentions of doing hard IFR.
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  #33  
Old 08-24-2021, 02:31 PM
Amadeus Amadeus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basalt, CO/Lexington, KY
Posts: 83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
The standard OpLims changed about 4 years ago, as best I can tell.

I haven't decided if I'm going to go with the Garmin IFR Avionics package, or the Dynon and add the GPS-175 after. Going Dynon will be cheaper, but I won't have a NAV receiver. I already have my Instrument rating, so I don't need the NAV for the test. And I would probably never use it. I only want to be IFR equipped for getting above/below the clouds here in SWFL. No intentions of doing hard IFR.
Agree 100%

Anywhere I have ever used an ILS approach there were RNAV with LPV approaches available. As far as flying a route you can always flightplan using the VORs as waypoints so you will follow same path. I really see no need for NAV in a light plane that I will never take into hard IFR.

This past Friday I had to divert from a direct path and also change altitude twice to remain clear of light clouds. With IFR authorization I could've maintained my planned route and altitude staying in cooler temperatures.
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Purchased N112DR E-LSA flying with 28.2 hours - Thank you David (CraftingN112DR) for putting your skills, knowledge and attention to detail in this RV-12iS!
Dropped at paint shop this morning (July 15, 2021)
Picked up from paint shop (August 14, 2021)
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  #34  
Old 08-24-2021, 06:00 PM
Kmdpilot Kmdpilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Bend
Posts: 13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
See this post: https://vansairforce.net/community/s...1&postcount=25

And the rest of the discussion in that thread. In 2013, it wasn't allowed. The standard OpLims were changed before 2017.
So my understanding is that if I have all of the equipment needed and it is tested, operational and I am a rated IFR pilot, I should be able to fly into IMC conditions. So, an ELSA 12IS with proper IFR equipment can be flown into IMC. Again, my personal minimums would not allow hard IFR. But that low layer that just will not go away is something I am comfortable with if no icing. But it's also nice to have if the TAF is a liar. Common in the PNW.
I've read other articles about this and not sure why it is such a question with so many polarized opinions. Sure SLSA might be one thing since it can be used for hire. But I have yet to see an FAA reg that limits IFR in ELSA as long as it has all of the required equipment outlined in 91.205. I'd want to add a heated pitot which it sounds like several people have done.

Last edited by Kmdpilot : 08-24-2021 at 06:06 PM.
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  #35  
Old 08-24-2021, 06:11 PM
FlyingDiver FlyingDiver is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmdpilot View Post
So my understanding is that if I have all of the equipment needed and it is tested, operational and I am a rated IFR pilot, I should be able to fly into IMC conditions.
As before, check your OpLims. If they don't allow it, you should be able to get them changed.
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  #36  
Old 08-24-2021, 07:29 PM
SARLDO SARLDO is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Asheville, NC
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Originally Posted by Kmdpilot View Post
But I have yet to see an FAA reg that limits IFR in ELSA as long as it has all of the required equipment outlined in 91.205...
And you will not find such a regulation. LSA in IMC is restricted by ASTM standards which define what an LSA is. The FAA takes no position on it but the ASTM (as of today) requires placards in LSA which state that flight in IMC is prohibited. It does not say flight under IFR is prohibited, which is why IFR flight training in VFR conditions makes the properly equipped SLSA a wise choice for flight schools.

It has been years now since this ASTM rule was adopted and may hopefully change one day but for now, watch those cloud clearances, your ADSB out is watching
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  #37  
Old 08-24-2021, 08:55 PM
FlyingDiver FlyingDiver is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARLDO View Post
And you will not find such a regulation. LSA in IMC is restricted by ASTM standards which define what an LSA is. The FAA takes no position on it but the ASTM (as of today) requires placards in LSA which state that flight in IMC is prohibited. It does not say flight under IFR is prohibited, which is why IFR flight training in VFR conditions makes the properly equipped SLSA a wise choice for flight schools.

It has been years now since this ASTM rule was adopted and may hopefully change one day but for now, watch those cloud clearances, your ADSB out is watching
The ASTM rule applies to S-LSA. E-LSA don't have to abide by them after certification.
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  #38  
Old 08-24-2021, 09:26 PM
ludorhb ludorhb is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Rocklin, CA
Posts: 4
Default LSA and Build Time.

I chose the RV-12iS because I am a sport pilot and it is the only Van's aircraft to meet LSA standards. RV-12 performance and useful load combined is hard to beat in an E-LSA. I weigh over 200 pounds, so useful load is an important factor.

In addition, I was able to build, paint, and complete phase 1 testing in 360 days by myself with minimal help from my 12-year old.
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  #39  
Old 08-25-2021, 10:23 AM
N8DAV8R N8DAV8R is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Salida, Ca
Posts: 91
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Originally Posted by ludorhb View Post
I chose the RV-12iS because I am a sport pilot and it is the only Van's aircraft to meet LSA standards. RV-12 performance and useful load combined is hard to beat in an E-LSA. I weigh over 200 pounds, so useful load is an important factor.

In addition, I was able to build, paint, and complete phase 1 testing in 360 days by myself with minimal help from my 12-year old.
I saw your airplane in the Van's post about first flights. Congratulations! It was really neat to see the father/son project and also to notice that you aren't far away.

I'm near Modesto. If you're ever going to just be out burning fuel enjoying the airplane and would stop by Tracy or Oakdale to show it off I would love to see it. Our choice for the -12 was basically a leap of faith. Long time RV fans, numbers were right and it seemed like the best probability to get it finished. I'm wrapping up the fuselage kit now and have the engine and avionics ordered, but I still haven't so much as even sat in a -12.

Anyway, I'd love to see your airplane some time. I know there are a few -12s around here but haven't come across a 912is powered 12is.
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  #40  
Old 08-25-2021, 07:51 PM
Jayhox88 Jayhox88 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ludorhb View Post
I chose the RV-12iS because I am a sport pilot and it is the only Van's aircraft to meet LSA standards. RV-12 performance and useful load combined is hard to beat in an E-LSA. I weigh over 200 pounds, so useful load is an important factor.

In addition, I was able to build, paint, and complete phase 1 testing in 360 days by myself with minimal help from my 12-year old.
ludorhb

Not to hijack the thread, but I live in Roseville and would also be interested in looking at your plane should the opportunity ever present itself.
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