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New Garmin Radios

SteinAir

Well Known Member
Hi All,

Garmin has finally released details of their new radios. Note that I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing street prices are likely to be pretty darned close to the current radio offering, and finally with a good quality usable built in intercom as well. I'll try to post some pictures shortly. Details below.

Cheers,
Stein


Garmin is pleased to announce a new series of VHF NAV/COM radios, the GTR and GNC series. As the replacement products for the popular SL30 and SL40 models, the GTR series COM transceivers and GNC series NAV/COM radios include a breadth of new features to reduce pilot workload, while also offering an affordable solution to meet the requirements of the 8.33 kHz channel spacing mandate recently enacted by the European Union under the Single European Sky (SES) initiative.

These products have truly reinvented the stand-alone aviation COM radio with novel features like reverse database look-up and the COM monitor function, which bring new efficiencies to cockpit radio management. Beyond that, these products demonstrate Garmin?s commitment to aviators worldwide, providing the solutions they need to meet the latest regulatory requirements in their regions, such as the recent SES mandate.

Features
The series offers a variety of original features never seen before in a stand-alone COM radio. A unique frequency database makes it easy to find all the frequencies associated with a given airport or facility just by entering the location name or station ID. And when manually tuning a frequency, the reverse lookup function will automatically provide the navaid and/or airport identifier. Pilots can also find the nearest airport, area control center, flight service station, weather frequencies and VORs. All models also include a COM monitor function, which provides the utility of two receivers in one, allowing the pilot to listen to transmissions like ATIS without leaving the active ATC frequency, as one example.

The GTR and GNC series automatically store the 20 most recently called frequencies. Plus, the radios allow for storage of up to 15 favorite frequencies such as the pilot?s home airport or other frequently visited destinations. A familiar flip-flop feature allows channels to be entered in a standby window, and then activated with a press of a button. All models also include a built-in, voice activated two-place intercom making it a great solution for a two seat aircraft without an audio panel. A built-in timer can assist with approaches, holds and other assigned maneuvers.

The SES mandate
The SES mandate aims to enhance safety and efficiency of air transport in Europe by tripling the number of channels available for aircraft communications. This mandate requires all European aircraft using European airspace to be equipped with 8.33 kHz radios by December 31, 2017. Select GTR and GNC models offer both 25 kHz and the 8.33 kHz operational capabilities required to comply with the law.

The GNC series NAV/COM
The GNC series NAV/COM radios offer all of the same COM features, while also adding navigation capability with VOR/ILS with Glideslope. The GNC series works well with select Garmin flight displays including the G500, G600, G500H and G3X to display the NAV indicators in the primary field of view, and can integrate with most autopilots. The GTR and GNC series are more powerful than their SL-series predecessors with versions available with 10- or 16-watt transmit power. The GTR 225 includes 10 watts of transmit power and 25 kHz frequency spacing for $1,995. The GTR 225A adds 8.33 kHz frequency spacing for $2,995. And the GTR 225B includes 8.33 kHz spacing and 16-watt transmit power for $3,995. The GNC 255A includes 10 watts of transmit power for $4,495 and the GNC 255B includes 16 watts of transmit power for $5,495. Both GNC models include 8.33 kHz spacing. All products in the series have received the Federal Aviation Administration?s (FAA) Technical Standard Order (TSO) authorization and are expected to ship early February to U.S. and global destinations accepting FAA TSO. The GTR
and GNC series will be available in Europe upon European Technical Standard Order (ETSO) authorization, expected later in first quarter 2013.
 
Couple quick pics:

newgarminradio1.jpg


newgarminradio2.jpg


newgarminradio3.jpg


Cheers,
Stein

PS, I have no idea on discounts, but since this has been in the works for awhile I'm betting inventory has been getting thin!
 
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Pretty cool!

A com radio with a database, pretty cool! I wonder how you update it? That slot on the upper right looks like a USB?
 
Who is selling thee SL 30.

OK so when those that like the latest and greatest who wants to there SL30 so I can up grade my Narco :D
 
Looks like a real winner, I especially like the built in intercomm feature (assuming it works well).

Looks bigger than the SL series, dimensions?
 
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Stein,
Any chance I can return the SL-40 in my avionics package that you guy's shipped out today for the latest and greatest? :eek:
 
Are the new radios the same size as the SL-30/40. Perhaps even a slide in replacement? I can't see anything about this in the description/details from Garmin, posted by Stein.
Also, it strikes me a lot of radio manufacturers claim an integrated intercom that works really well, but not many people seem to post glowing reports about their performance. I hope Garmin live up to a higher standard in this respect.
Lastly, are the displays easily readable in sunlight, and at a sharp angle?
Yes, I know, too early to tell yet.
John
 
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Stein,
Any chance I can return the SL-40 in my avionics package that you guy's shipped out today for the latest and greatest? :eek:

I'm sure we'll be able to work something out for you! Regarding the intercom, I don't have a lot more data to go off of then many....but I will say it's definately not the same as the previous thing they called an intercom! :)

I'm sure the Garmin guys will post more details as they have a chance - so will I. Here's some more pics and info:

Height: 1.65"
Width: 6.25"
Depth: 11.23"


newgarminradiodual.jpg


Cheers,
Stein
 
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Why?

Okay, I'll be the first to admit I am no expert on the latest and greatest in avionics. But why?

Not sure why these features would be needed if the move is to create an Eco system of integrated avionics. I am all for redundancy, but if the EFIS and/or GPS can push the frequencies to the radio. Why do radios need a database? Will I have to pay for these updates every few weeks?

Plus, as a professional electronics designer, these are not of the aesthetic level I would expect from a company as large as Garmin, or for a $2-3K product.

Maybe these are targeted at the certified crowd. Or maybe I am not seeing something. I am not trying to be negative but am truly asking why?
 
Okay, I'll be the first to admit I am no expert on the latest and greatest in avionics. But why?

Not sure why these features would be needed if the move is to create an Eco system of integrated avionics. I am all for redundancy, but if the EFIS and/or GPS can push the frequencies to the radio. Why do radios need a database? Will I have to pay for these updates every few weeks?

Plus, as a professional electronics designer, these are not of the aesthetic level I would expect from a company as large as Garmin, or for a $2-3K product.

Maybe these are targeted at the certified crowd. Or maybe I am not seeing something. I am not trying to be negative but am truly asking why?

Because the SL series is way old by today's standard. Imagine the technological differences in that product vs today's products. Support of that old stuff must be getting more and more difficult. Those old components are most likely being obsoleted and hard to get. If you must eventually replace the SL series, you need a product like this. There is nothing out there that competes with the SL-30 (with the level and ease of integration the SL-30 has) and that has made it a very popular NAV/COM.

I would say they added the database features just because it was so easy to do. One of those if you go that far you might as well go all the way kind of things. Also keep in mind that in the certified world, most people don't have a handheld GPS hooked up to their radio to push the frequencies or a fancy EFIS doing the same. We are spoiled in the experimental world.

I bet the aesthetics look great when you put one of these up under a GTN650 however, how pretty does a COM or NAV/COM need to be?

I can guarantee that they are targeting the certified crowd. The experimental market is a flea compared to the certified market.
 
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I can guarantee that they are targeting the certified crowd. The experimental market is a flea compared to the certified market.

Not so sure about that, those G3X's you are installing took quite a commitment from Garmin, they are aimed specifically at the experimental market so I think we may be a bit larger than a flea, we might even be the "Dog" :D
 
Not so sure about that, those G3X's you are installing took quite a commitment from Garmin, they are aimed specifically at the experimental market so I think we may be a bit larger than a flea, we might even be the "Dog" :D

The Skycatcher was the Dog with the G300, we were the flea and got the awesome G3X. Sometimes it is better to be the flea! :p
 
Nice features, but I already have a GRT HX, G496, G430W, Ipad/Ipod with Foreflight and sectionals. I doubt many of us will be upgrading just for another database to keep up with. Now if they make them updatable using wifi like Foreflight, I will buy one.
 
MAD (Modern Avionics Disease):

The addition of more "features" most users would gladly trade away for lower price and/or higher quality base function.
 
I'm not real hot for another Garmin database to update every six weeks for $50, following the HP model of recurring purchases of pricey cartridges. Otherwise, it's just a radio, with a lot of extraneous "I already know that" information to clutter a screen. I'll miss the relative simplicity of the SL-30, but sooner or later it must be left behind for hardware and produceability reasons. These new offerings seem a decent substitute. Let the database rot, I'll direct dial; the information is available elsewhere. Unfortunately, the rotting data base becomes a source of bad information, worse than no information.

John Siebold
 
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I'm not real hot for another Garmin database to update every six weeks for $50.....

John Siebold

We must be getting slightly different info, or you have a different source than me. :)

I'm told about $25 for a one off single update (which would be my choice once per year or so) or about $99 for a year's subscription.

Cheers,
Stein
 
We must be getting slightly different info, or you have a different source than me. :)

I'm told about $25 for a one off single update (which would be my choice once per year or so) or about $99 for a year's subscription.

Cheers,
Stein

It's a pity they can't make the radio talk via RS-232 to your 430 or equivalent and get it's frequency data from there...:rolleyes:
 
Why not allow users to update the database while it is inserted on platform? I know we would not be able to keep up with every change, but as John S says, bad data is worse than no data. 95% of my flying is to the same dozen airports or so. I could look up, verify or update the likely stops on any x-country. If users had a frequency update/change option it would make the device more appealing, at least to me. We can enter a user defined waypoints in other devices, why not a frequency update?

And yes, I refill my printer ink cartridges too.
 
Video on AVWEB

There's a video review on AvWeb.com. Sounds like a new SL-40/30 with a better intercom and screen. Looks like they'll obsolete the SL series for these shortly - if not already.

It's taller too. I prefer the SL-40 height.

Neil
 
I'm told about $25 for a one off single update (which would be my choice once per year or so) or about $99 for a year's subscription.

So can the display ID/database function be turned off so users do not have a need for paid updates?

or

Per previous posts, can this thing get its frequency information from another Garmin device which has already been updated?
 
I am With Dan, on his first post! Really good quality functions and LOWER price is much more appealing to me.

Bird
 
as an affected SL30 owner sitting in europe this is a mixed bag of news... :confused:

as it stands, it looks like we'll have to replace each and every! 25khz radio in the field by 2018 due to a poor frequency allocation policy and GA without a powerful lobby. simply insane... don't even get me started... :mad:

garmin should have produced a slide-in/slide-out replacement for the SL-30/SL-40 with the exact same or few more functions. only then, installation, paperwork etc... costs could have been kept to a minimum.
they probably got bribed from all the avionics shops and installers ;-)

now, assuming one replaces the SL30 with the GNC255, we have to pay twice: extra features that few of us if any need and a complete rebuild of the radio stack, hence lots of paperwork & downtime of the aircraft. i'm already seeing myself handling the wiring behind the panel. completely unnecessary. and i hope garmin has learned to improve their documentation/install manuals.

let's see how this turns out...

rgds,
bernie
 
Truthfully I can't see the point of having a database in a Nav/Com. That means you'll need to tie it into a GPS of some sort for position info. I would hope the database/ident function can be disabled to avoid yet another database being updated. No point being able to access the nearest FSS or enroute frequency if you have to verify it is current.

As for a "built in intercom", wow...:rolleyes: my 10-year-old Xcom has that, and odds are it's every bit as good as the Garmin offering at a user level. Actually, it can also monitor the standby frequency as well. Sure the Garmin might be more "advanced", but what does that really mean to me as a pilot? I offer the answer to that is "not much".
 
For those that asked about direct slide-in replacements; Garmin has a large dealer base which have avionics shops. They would make their dealers very unhappy if they created a new product that was just a slide-in replacement. Dealers want the install business. This opinion is focused more on the certificated aircraft market. Just my .02
 
I'm with everyone who said that they are sick and tired of paying for yet another database update. I want *one* database, that's shared between my GPS, COM, iPad, Android tablet, Skyview, and wristwatch. Is that too much to ask? :p
 
I'm with everyone who said that they are sick and tired of paying for yet another database update. I want *one* database, that's shared between my GPS, COM, iPad, Android tablet, Skyview, and wristwatch. Is that too much to ask? :p

You left out home PC. Add that and i'm with you!!
 
This is a good opertunity for other company's to manufacture direct replacement units.

Icom has had such a unit for over a decade now (sorta)...and it's not been an extremely popular retrofit, so at the moment it's unlikely someone could make a sound business case or an attractive ROI for such an endeavor (I can count on my stumpy propeller modified hand the number of folks we've sold that slide in replacement to over the past decade). Avionics lifecycles in the certified world have matured to the point where "if it ain't broke don't fix it" (therefore no huge demand to simply replace a working radio), and when everything is finally too old or too broke to keep using, folks typically will update the entire stack with the like branded equipment...with all new or quasi new equipment - and when a replacement unit might be the sole avionics unit offering from a specific company, it's usually not an attraction during a complete retrofit or a new install.

For us in the experimental world, I also see little demand for such a unit at this specific time frame. Most folks will be using these new radios in a new install, so no issue there, and with retrofits - again it's not usually a problem (because folks are usually doing a full up retrofit). Not arguing good/bad or one over the other, just the facts as they are from my experience. For the folks in the EU I get the point entirely (like Bernie)...don't have much to add there other than at least the new radio is legal! Of course all of the above may change, but that's how it is today at least.

And LORD KNOWS I agree with ya'll on databases and software. Between computers (accounting software, cad software, email clients, operating systems, etc..), phones, iPads, avionics, test equipment, tooling, and other stuff....any one of of my toys and tools are out of date at any given time when it comes to updates! :)

Cheers,
Stein
 
Any idea if this offers a split screen capability so I can see all 4 frequencies at once? Active COM / Stby COM, Active NAV / Stby NAV? It sure is nice to be able to glance down, double check which VOR you're tuned to, or see that the ILS freq is dialed into stby, while at the same time managing COM frequency handoffs from approach to tower. Call me old school but I really like the way the KX-165 manages this while still providing the cool features like From Radial readout, etc. I hope the new Garmin can do something similar.

Jason
 
My worry: How long before Garmin stops offering parts support/repair of SL-30's?

Question: Will the powers that be require certified installations to be hooked to a certified gps, less some uncertified gps gives the com bad info about where it is?
 
Question: Will the powers that be require certified installations to be hooked to a certified gps, less some uncertified gps gives the com bad info about where it is?

I seriously doubt it, there are many certified aircraft out there that don't have any GPS :eek:
There is also no requirement to update your GPS database unless you use it for IFR.
 
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I emailed Garmin support to ask if the intercom in this radio is Stereo or not.

Alas, it is Mono.

Since I'll be adding music to my RV-7A (aerobatics to AC/DC, anyone?), I'll still need to get a real intercom. :-(
 
If it is just music, many headsets (lightspeed, for example) allow you to plug a music source directly into the headset. I'm sure an RV builder can figure a way to have a semi-installed version.
A real question is how many unswitched inputs the intercom has. A lot of glass airplanes now have warning tones for autopilot disconnect, AOA, etc.
Another alternative, if the intercom works well, is to feed it to a mixer circuit which you can buy or build.
 
If it is just music, many headsets (lightspeed, for example) allow you to plug a music source directly into the headset. I'm sure an RV builder can figure a way to have a semi-installed version.
A real question is how many unswitched inputs the intercom has. A lot of glass airplanes now have warning tones for autopilot disconnect, AOA, etc.
Another alternative, if the intercom works well, is to feed it to a mixer circuit which you can buy or build.

I have not poured over the install manual in detail, but at first blush it appears the best solution is going to be to use something like Vern Littles audio mixer to level/control various inputs into this unit as Bob mentions....because I don't see a whole pile of available unswitched inputs.

Cheers,
Stein
 
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