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Anybody Ever "Googled" Their N Number?

Toobuilder

Toobuilder

Well Known Member
...You might be shocked at the info that is readily available.

Just out of curiosity, I was looking for pictures of my airplane from before I owned it, and found that and more. I also found pictures of my airplane with me flying/near it! Apparently, some people make quite a hobby out of photographing every airplane in existence and posting it on the web. That's not too bad, but what gets the paranoid side of me going is the little box next to the picture with the FAA registration info right next to it. So there's me, my airplane, and my address all over the web without my prior knowledge. I know it's "public" info, but still... not cool. I wonder if the photographer would like me to post pictures of his daughter/wife standing by their car at the supermarket and also give the address?

But wait, there's more. If you have used flight following recently, the departure and landing location, time, date, speed and ground track are displayed on another site for the whole web to see. I know some of you like that sort of thing with your SPOT devices, but I'm one who considers that a substantial invasion of privacy. This is not to mention how easily this info could be used against you by someone so inclined. Heck, I don't even use my N number when calling on the radio unless it's an ATC facility just because of local people "harvesting" registration numbers and registering bogus complaints at a nearby airport.

Perhaps I'm just not as comfortable with the information age as I should be, but am I the only one who thinks too much information is a bad thing? Google your N number before you respond.
 
Just a data point:

I can promise you that your insurance company will google your N number within minutes of receiving a claim for damages. So, I'd be careful about using it in blogs, screen names, etc.

I know this because AIG showed up in my webserver logs a few years back after having filed a small claim. They had found my (now deleted) blog via an N number search from google. These folks look for anything they can use against you...luckily in my case there was nothing to find.
 
Yep.

Here's me flying home from Dallas, with all kinds of detail: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N397JA/history/20090814/0408Z/KRBD/KDWH/tracklog

And a picture: http://flightaware.com/photos/view/...c0a432dd4fa/aircraft/N397JA/sort/votes/page/1

And the FAA record (I'm not the owner): http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=397JA

And with other databases that are free or close to it, I can probably tell you how old your daughter's son is, and who is the leinholder on his car...from your N number. (If you actually have a daughter with a son, that is just a coincidence! I made that up...) Or, say...if your medical was current.

Not arguing either way. It's just all very easy data to get, so I don't worry about it much. If you are on sites like Facebook and such...then, well...I really wouldn't worry about it, as you are publishing much more. (Pet peeve: read your myspace/facebook pages before applying for a job people!)

Note that I think you can have flightaware (well the source, really) block an N number: http://flightaware.com/about/faq.rvt#blockmytail

I also have all my public addresses under a UPS Store box, which is also my permanent address. (Its not really for privacy...I just got tired of changing my address all the time...while my box has been same for almost 10 years...and they will even forward on request. Yes, the FAA has my home address, but they publish the mailing address.)
 
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jmbaute said:
Just a data point:

I can promise you that your insurance company will google your N number within minutes of receiving a claim for damages. So, I'd be careful about using it in blogs, screen names, etc.

I know this because AIG showed up in my webserver logs a few years back after having filed a small claim. They had found my (now deleted) blog via an N number search from google. These folks look for anything they can use against you...luckily in my case there was nothing to find.
Click to expand...

Insurance Companies are in business to make money. They are not in business to pay claims. Claims are just part of the cost of doing business. The higher the claim, the lower the profits.
 
Toobuilder said:
...Perhaps I'm just not as comfortable with the information age as I should be, but am I the only one who thinks too much information is a bad thing? Google your N number before you respond.
Click to expand...
Yep - I completely agree. People are so quick to turn over their personal information to the Central Authority (Feds, Google, grocery store, etc, etc.) but they never stop to think what if the information is used against them some day.

Maybe the new Homeland Healthcare Administration will seek out those who have excessively large carbon footprints (own multiple mobile vehicles) and who engage in risky behavior (flying), so they can pay a *more fair* share for their new *voluntary* health insurance.

Yea, I guess we're just conspiracy nuts. The Government really does have our best interests in mind with everything they do!
 
Where the culpability lies

I don't want to enter a political debate here, but there are three distinct categories of info-gathering entities being discussed in this thread, and we have to clearly distinguish between them and their behaviors/culpabilities:

1. Facebook, Twitter, the supermarket, insurance companies, this forum: Entities to which individuals like ourselves may voluntarily provide our private information, knowing that it will then no longer be private. It may very well be wise to not provide private information to these entities, but if you do it is purely voluntary. None of these hold a gun to your head.

2. Google, airplane spotters, etc. (insurance companies also utilize this category): These simply gather, organize, and utilize information that is already publicly available through other sources. Some of us may not like it, and that's fine, but no foul here either. Don't blame the messenger.

3. Government: Coerces you into submitting your private information under threat of violence (i.e. be taken to jail, have your property siezed, etc. if you don't comply). Then it turns around and uses your information however it sees fit, including as in this case making it available to the general public, without your consent. Foul!
 
Too much paranoia

There is virtually no way to avoid your information getting out. You can do the Lifelock thing for Identity theft, but as long as you have a car registered, own a home, have a utility bill, register an airplane, it is too late.

In the Phoenix area, we have multitudes of Speed Enforcement cameras. No matter what your thoughts, if you don't speed you don't have to worry. They have slowed traffic and dramatically reduced the accident rates on the affected freeways. Injury accidents are down even more. On a very positive side, the speed cameras captured the image of a multiple murder suspect that was soon taken into custody. All cars are logged in somewhere.

Finally, just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't really watching you!!! Life is too short. Don't sweat the stuff you can't do anything about.
 
Mostly expected

I have done this a few times and it is generally the public stuff that I know is out there. The surprising one to me was a photo of me sitting in my airplane at some unknown place, buckling in. Wow!

48a1058b7998e6c900e8408ad31edc366bb95004


Edit: Now that I look at the photo some more I think it might be the tiny Texas hamlet of Denver City. Now who in Denver City is sending this stuff to FlightAware?

Edit2: Denver City seems like a nice little oilfield town but it is neither Denver nor a city.
 
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Don't need your n-number to get your address online. Just plug a name and location into the FAA database at Landings.com and the certification, medical, and address information is readily available.
 
I find it interesting and harmless (but I'm also careful about what I put online).

The #1 search for my N number is a pict of my plane shortly after it was out of phase one. It has no paint at that point and it was taken (apparently) be a plane buff at the airport. More power to them. They seem to enjoy plane watching - I can't blame em.

I just wish someone would post a new photo now that my plane is painted :D
 
Curious. The only thing I found for my number are some first flight videos that I posted a year ago (and a whole bunch of links to it from various chinese sites). Plus the flightaware page from some recent flights, which linked to the FAA database.

Turns out if I google my name, there's a heck of a lot more stuff out there (maybe because I publish in the scientific literature). My sense is what Darwin said, its all out there and not much one can do about it at this point.

greg
 
Whoa, googling my N #...

...shows me up in the FAA database - - and my airplane's not even built yet!

I have an N # reserved, and sure enough ... name, address, it's all there (even a mode S code).

An adjacent google item shows all my photobucket images (since I have the n# in a few titles), but they are on the boring and benign side.

Hmm, maybe I should look into this Lifelock thing.

.
 
Interesting.
Mine came up with 1 picture on airliners.net and this:
Full text of "Early Egyptian records of travel"
I guess the egyptians were way ahead of us. :D
 
Modern age, not much we can do about.

There are a lot "public" information out there. As said by several posts before there is not much we can do about. What we an control is what we put on Facebook, website, resume, etc. How many times you see people put their full birthday (including year) on Facebook? I have seen enough people put their SSN, wife and children's full name, office, home, and cellphone numbers, home and office addresses on their resume. This part we can do without.

By the way, try to search yourself on this website:

http://www.intelius.com/

You will be surprised by how much information about you are there out in the open.
 
I found two flights with flight following that I never made. Somebody else used the N number of my airplanes.
 
I'm cultured ...

Well, a quick search of "N8RV" revealed more about me than I knew. Here's the crew topping off the tanks at a fuel and potty stop ...
Repeater.jpg


I've been asked before by ham radio operators if N8RV is my "station". Apparently it's a repeater located in WV.

... it seems that Smokey's also cultured. Vivaldi wrote some concerto for the oboe and called it n.8-RV. Catchy name. I'm sure it's everybody's favorite. ;)

Eat your hearts out, you raggedy-massed paeons. My plane has CULTURE! :D
 
kevinh said:
I find it interesting and harmless (but I'm also careful about what I put online).
Click to expand...

I agree, to a point. If it was limited to stuff I put online, or just pictures of the airplane, then yes, not much harm.

However, when the pictures include me, my wife, and friends (yes, they're out there) and also show my home address and a link to times and dates I've been on a long cross country, out of state, Yeah... I have a serious problem with that.

What if a "car buff" posts a picture of your car parked at the store, includes your wife in the picture, then also posts your home address, a Google map pointing to your particular house, and a GPS track from the onStar system in your vehicle as she runs her daily errands? Still harmless?
 
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N8RV said:
Well, a quick search of "N8RV" revealed more about me than I knew...
Click to expand...

Point taken... Should have mentioned it's best if you do your "Nxxxx + aircraft" to narrow the search some.

By the way Don, on May 17, 2009, the FAA received a report of an aircraft matching the description of your aircraft seen buzzing a busload of nuns in the vicinity of Grand Junction Regional airport around 12:40 PM? Can you account for your whereabouts at that time?
 
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"Big Brother & 1985"

It's very clear "Big Brother" is watching.... and it isn't even the government! This stuff showing up on "Flightaware" and "Landings" somehow it reminds me of Nazi Germany, where everyone might be a reporting spy.... and you have no clue who. Anything YOU write that shows up... you can thank Google spiders for collecting. Remember the book 1985??

I searched my Long-EZ number (which I don't own anymore) and my threads here at VAF even show up in Google because I have the LEZ listed at VAF! Everything the new owner does.... shows up with my name associated because I'm listed as the "Manufacturer". Geezzz.....

I don't think I like this "new world order"......................
 
There is the good...

I hate to interrupt the conspiracy theories but there is the good to the info on the internet. I googled my N number and found the following site with two pictures of my son and I taxing in at OSH 2009. Great pictures that I would never have had if not for the photographer posting it online. Thanks Mark Pasqualino.

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/N96FS.html
 
Frank Smidler said:
I hate to interrupt the conspiracy theories but there is the good to the info on the internet. I googled my N number and found the following site with two pictures of my son and I taxing in at OSH 2009. Great pictures that I would never have had if not for the photographer posting it online. Thanks Mark Pasqualino.

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/N96FS.html
Click to expand...

Of course, many people would consider the same scenario (unauthorized pictures of thier kids and address on the web) a very BAD thing.

...And it doesn't take any kind of a "conspiracy theorist" to see why...

Glad it accidentaly worked out for you though.
 
http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/088305.html

I'm sorry you (naive, IMO) trusting souls who see no problem with this - but this is just weird. No - it's like a network of stalkers. At least they didn't take pictures of my kids.

And it looks like they're even pulling serial numbers and linking with the pics. Guess I'll have to change my registration (n-no) again.

This network of people collecting and posting this info is just down right weird.
 
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At first I was shocked at the Google search, and then I was shocked at the apathy in this thread? However it eventually occurred to me that some people have a higher tolerance for this kind of thing because of their current social environment. Perhaps you are fortunate to live in an area free of pedophiles and perverts; low in crime; possessing strong community values and a well-founded trust of your fellow man. However, since I live in the human cesspool that is Southern California, which lacks all of the above mentioned traits, where a quick trip to the supermarket almost requires a firearm for protection, I am a lot more suspicious of people?s motives.

I?ll try be more understanding of differing viewpoints from here on out.
 
Toobuilder said:
Point taken... Should have mentioned it's best if you do your "Nxxxx + aircraft" to narrow the search some.

By the way Don, on May 17, 2009, the FAA received a report of an aircraft matching the description of your aircraft seen buzzing a busload of nuns in the vicinity of Grand Junction Regional airport around 12:40 PM? Can you account for your whereabouts at that time?
Click to expand...

You'll have to work a little harder than that, Michael -- I didn't even start the engine for the first time until JULY. :D

However, buzzing a bunch-o-nuns on a sunny day sounds like it could be fun ...
 
I'm not too worked up over what's available as I do keep a blog, but am somewhat careful of what's posted. I do work in this world for a day job so I'm aware of data availability, but more so, the sheer volume of data out there. The goverment already had a boat-load of data about you previous to Al's internet, but now it's just a bit easier for us to find. So much for Google's "Do no evil" mantra.

I did notice that evidently, my RV-7 was reincarnated from a Piedmont 737-300! I always wondered where they went after the boneyard.:D

88402_1097358065_tb.jpg
 
try this one. Just google your name. I did it, and a picture of my rv with all my information was right there for everybody to see. I didn't like that at all. One thing to think about on this kind of search. The picture had my n number showing on the plane, but under the pic was my name as the builder. That is what made the google search go to that pic, not my n number.

One more thing. I went to the flightaware site and checked on the block nnumber thing. If I read it right, 250 dollars so you can keep your n number off it. What a scam.
 
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Toobuilder said:
Idunno... The Internet says that an RV-8 with your N number made that flight...

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N8RV

Not sure who to believe here... ;)
Click to expand...

Sure you do. Believe me. Have I EVER lied to you? :D

I sent an e-mail to Flight-Aware about their error. I doubt I'll hear back.

UPDATE: I heard back. Here's their response:

"From time to time, clients will advise that some flight data may be incorrect.
These could include flight times, aircraft type, filed-flight discrepancies
etc.

FlightAware does not have any control over this. Please contact the ATC of
the location in which the error is reporting. FlightAware only relays
information provided to us from the FAA."

Now you know.
 
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Mine used to be a 757, the one that hit the Pentagon on 911

Jim P said:
I'm not too worked up over what's available as I do keep a blog, but am somewhat careful of what's posted. I do work in this world for a day job so I'm aware of data availability, but more so, the sheer volume of data out there. The goverment already had a boat-load of data about you previous to Al's internet, but now it's just a bit easier for us to find. So much for Google's "Do no evil" mantra.

I did notice that evidently, my RV-7 was reincarnated from a Piedmont 737-300! I always wondered where they went after the boneyard.:D

88402_1097358065_tb.jpg
Click to expand...

Pretty spooky.
 
Wonder if you could somehow copyright or trademark your airplanes image? That way they can't use it for their (Flight Info, whoever...) profit. Because that's essentially what's being done.
 
Low Pass said:
Wonder if you could somehow copyright or trademark your airplanes image? That way they can't use it for their (Flight Info, whoever...) profit. Because that's essentially what's being done.
Click to expand...

If public figures can't keep the paparazzi from using photos of them in public places, I would seriously doubt that Joe Blow could prevent pictures of his airplane from being taken and used for any legal purpose.

I would suggest that if don't want your picture taken, don't go out in public. :rolleyes:
 
Frankly, the whole thing about taking pictures and posting all the detailed info about each and every aircraft and the owner is, well, creepy.

It's one thing to post pictures of pretty paint jobs or nicely done interiors or just unique aircraft. But pictures of airliners? And pictures + personal data of unpainted RV's?

Well...I've heard of some odd hobbies, but this one is up there. Freakish.
 
Flying Scotsman said:
Frankly, the whole thing about taking pictures and posting all the detailed info about each and every aircraft and the owner is, well, creepy.

It's one thing to post pictures of pretty paint jobs or nicely done interiors or just unique aircraft. But pictures of airliners? And pictures + personal data of unpainted RV's?

Well...I've heard of some odd hobbies, but this one is up there. Freakish.
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It's not just airplanes... As a train driver it's an unusual day if we don't get photographed at some stage of the trip. I've even had photographers (3 of the mongrels) shoot us with a huuuge flash as I was coming through a station at 3am one morning. :mad:

It's not just airplanes and I'm not a fan of it, but so long as they don't get a photo of me picking my nose, there's not too much that can be done. In Australia at least...
 
google street view maps

Personally I was kind of pleased to see my first flight youtube videos echo'ed on a Japanese web sites, the internet is just an amazing tool for communication.
http://live.arukikata.co.jp/m/1JBMmdHLUR4/

But, for the people that are rightfully concerned about always being on camera (which we really are these days). Google has an interesting "Street View Maps" feature now.

Basically every road in world is having it picture taken and most houses in the US have now been photographed. In a 3-d space you can move down most streets in the US and view all the houses.

To see this simple go to google maps
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
type in an address and then on the left side of your screen you will see a drop down box "More", select "Street View" and if that address has been photographed you can see that location in a virtual space.

For me its just an amazing thing, and somewhat creepy too I guess.

Lynn Hall
N554LH, flying!
 
LynnHall said:
For me its just an amazing thing, and somewhat creepy too I guess.

Lynn Hall
N554LH, flying!
Click to expand...

The Google street view is a great tool, and somewhat creepy- I agree.

But, the big difference with that is that it does not show your wife or kid standing in the front yard for some perv to get his jollies from. Am I the only one who has had his family and friends "published" on the web by an overzealous aviation photographer?

This level of convenience makes it far too easy to "connect the dots" for some wack job on the other end of the internet.

With a few keystrokes anyone can get a picture of wife/kid, address, map to the house including a picture, travel habits, and because we have an airplane, apparent income (we're obviously "rich").
 
One would be naive to think they aren't being watched when doing such a public activity as flying. Be careful out there.
 
Oops

I just Googled my reserved N number and found a recent flight on flightaware.com. (My RV-9A is still being built in my workshop)

Well I guess I don't have it reserved anymore since it now belongs to a Beech.

Oh well, now I have a new registered number.
 
Copyrighted photo?

So I tried it w/N198G and found some photos of my airplane somebody else took. Creepy? Yes. But this one I really liked! I have very few in-flight pics, and the photographer did a great job on this shot. Here's the interesting question, though - the image says "copyrighted" by the photographer. So can someone actually own a copyrighted image of ME and MY AIRCRAFT?

N198G%20in%20VGT.jpg
 
Funny...

I just found out that the guy who built my RV-6 is a repeat offender (first one was an RV-4).
 
rv9av8tr said:
It's very clear "Big Brother" is watching.... and it isn't even the government! .....Remember the book 1985?? I don't think I like this "new world order"......................
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Do you mean George Orwells' "1984?" Either way, public records have been public records long before an Orwellian view of the world gave some of us reason to pause. The Internet has just made accessing public records easier and more *democratic.* For instance, anyone with a keyboard can access the local gov and pull up records of home ownership, who owns what, what the house it worth, how much the owner pays in taxes, etc. etc. The only thing that has changed is the inquirer does not have to physically visit the county court house in person anymore. We may not like it but there it is, warts and all. Technology, especially information technology always was and will always be a double edged sword.
 
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JordanGrant said:
The image says "copyrighted" by the photographer. So can someone actually own a copyrighted image of ME and MY AIRCRAFT?
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Yes. Because the copyright is about the picture, not the objects on it. If the guy took the picture, the picture is forever copyrighted to him. But as a photographer if you take a picture of 'easily recognizable person/model/machine/building' you should get release form signed by owner allowing you to publish/sell the image. In this case the tail number is allowing that easy recognition to be made. But there are plenty of legal details that may have allowed him to do so even without your consent (like picture shot while you were taking part in public event).

Bottom line: the picture is copyrighted to the photographer. Saying if he had right to publish it needs more details.

P.S. Did you try to contact Airport-data.com with a request to delete this photo if you wish so? You could go there and check their conditions under which they accept pictures - there should be something about model releases.
 
something to think about. Every time you put something on the internet, be it your last name, it gets put in the system. So when somebody Googles it or uses Yahoo, anything with that last name comes up. Scary, it's part of the SYSTEM that has been created. It's best to use a code name and leave out all information about you. Than you can stay safe and free from... whatever.
 
LynnHall said:
...But, for the people that are rightfully concerned about always being on camera (which we really are these days). Google has an interesting "Street View Maps" feature now.

Basically every road in world is having it picture taken and most houses in the US have now been photographed. In a 3-d space you can move down most streets in the US and view all the houses....

Lynn Hall
N554LH, flying!
Click to expand...

Thankfully, Google's camera car has yet to find our neighborhood. I should probably get out and clean up my front yard a bit, just in case...
 
Toobuilder said:
...With a few keystrokes anyone can get a picture of wife/kid, address, map to the house including a picture, travel habits, and because we have an airplane, apparent income (we're obviously "rich").
Click to expand...

Judging by your signature I'd have to conclude that you're obviously (plane) poor.
 
The Google Earth street view camera vehicle is apparently a car with a 360-degree camera mounted atop it. In some shots where the sun casts shadows, you can see the outline of the vehicle. Kinda neat. They apparently just drive slowly through neighborhoods and take pictures at certain intervals.

In our neighborhood, a couple was taking a walk and are in several frames, looking at the car as it drove past them (no doubt wondering who it was and why they were driving through the neighborhood with a goofy-looking car).

While creepy and tends to raise privacy issues, the reality is that it's revealing nothing more than what anyone would see driving past your house or business.

Still creepy to me ... :cool:
 
That stuff doesn't bother me nearly as much as the new facial recognition technology being adopted by many government entities. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5504534.ece) Here in Texas they don't want you to smile when your driver license photo is taken. They say that way the photo looks more like the driver in normal circumstances. (Of course those photos are most often looked at by traffic cops - so perhaps they should be requesting a scowl.) The argument has been made that a non-smiling face is more easily identified by facial recognition software - take that one as you will.

Police cars are also starting to be equipped with cameras that will automatically identify license plates. If the driver of that car is of interest to the police for any reason or if the car is not insured the system will identify it to the officer. So every car within a certain distance of a patrol car will be automatically scanned.

Seems a little spooky to me.
 
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Yep, and you have to ask to be able to use it! :eek:

I found a couple of the Cardinal I didn't know existed. Didn't think anyone would care about a '68 Cardinal with original paint... but apparently....
 
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