What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Airplane registration

S

Stockmanreef

Well Known Member
I just flew from MI to VA. Upon landing I got a call from the main owner of the airplane (I only own 10%, while he owns 90%). He got a call from a person from the FAA that told him that the plane was not registered. Apparently he did forget to renew and the reistration lapsed. I did not know you had to renew. I have never dealt with the registration aspect of a plane.

I called the FAA guy back and he said to call the FAA registration office. After talking with them, I found out that the plane was in fact not registered and the process to register would take 4-6 weeks and that the plane would be grounded in the mean time. And I am in VA.

I called the first guy back and he said that he had the authority to allow me to fly back to MI. But I could face up to an $1100 fine per leg if I flew the plane before it was registered again. All this for a $5 registration.

Could this be a scam? He said that there is a data base telling him when planes are flying with out of registration. He called when I was in the air (which I find hard to believe that the FAA is that efficient considering the 4-6 wk registration process). But I also flew a IFR mission in May and heard nothing from the FAA. I got no last name of the FAA guy or any real way to know who it was. Granted he did know the cell phone number of the owner and the FAA registration hotline #.

Needless to say, it has been a long frustrating day. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

Ken
 
You called the FAA registration branch and verified the info, how could it be a scam? I wouldn't be surprised at all if they flag expired registration numbers from briefings, flight plans, or even flight following. Especially if you are flying toward the US Capitol.

You already know this, but 10% owner or not, AROW is on you as PIC. That fine would hit your wallet so I wouldn't push it.

Good luck though, let us know how things turn out.
 
Anyone can check this - the registration expiration date for every N number is on the FAA's web site.

And yes, the PIC is responsible for having the right paperwork on board. Especially since you've been warned, I suspect the FAA won't be happy if the plane magically appears back home- unless you trailer it.

You could approach the local FSDO about a ferry permit, although 'expired registration' is not on the list of usual reasons for one.
 
Could the local FSDO issue a ferry permit to allow you to get the plane back home?

In hindsight... You could have flown home first, and *then* called the FAA when you "found out" that this was a problem.
 
check with this company. they may be able to get it done in a much shorter time frame. i believe they are across the street from the faa registration building and can 'walk' it through. i am sure there are a lot of planes flying around without regs current. this is a good reminder for all to check there registration expiration date. :):)
img1456cm.jpg
 
Registration reminder

I assumed that the FAA would send me a renewal notice in advance just like the DMV does. To play it safe I just made an entry on my iPhone calendar to alert me one month prior to expiration. Thanks for the heads up!
 
JakeLewis22 said:
I assumed that the FAA would send me a renewal notice in advance just like the DMV does. To play it safe I just made an entry on my iPhone calendar to alert me one month prior to expiration. Thanks for the heads up!
Click to expand...

Renewal FAQ here:

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/reregistration/

You should receive two mailed notices of pending expiration date provided your mailing address on file with the FAA is current. Waiting until one month prior to expiration will eliminate your option for online renewal:

"The third, fourth & fifth months before expiration make up the timely filing window. A code provided in the notice allows on-line re-registration and payment of the $5 fee when there are no changes in ownership, address, or citizenship to report. "
 
nharwood said:
You called the FAA registration branch and verified the info, how could it be a scam? I wouldn't be surprised at all if they flag expired registration numbers from briefings, flight plans, or even flight following. Especially if you are flying toward the US Capitol.

You already know this, but 10% owner or not, AROW is on you as PIC. That fine would hit your wallet so I wouldn't push it.

Good luck though, let us know how things turn out.
Click to expand...

The trouble is that the existing (old) registration document looks like it is current since it has no expiration date printed on it...:(

The ARROW check does not encompass the regulation change...
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Renewal FAQ here:

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/reregistration/

You should receive two mailed notices of pending expiration date provided your mailing address on file with the FAA is current. Waiting until one month prior to expiration will eliminate your option for online renewal:

"The third, fourth & fifth months before expiration make up the timely filing window. A code provided in the notice allows on-line re-registration and payment of the $5 fee when there are no changes in ownership, address, or citizenship to report. "
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information. I changed my calendar alert to five months prior to the expiration date.
 
az_gila said:
The trouble is that the existing (old) registration document looks like it is current since it has no expiration date printed on it...:(

The ARROW check does not encompass the regulation change...
Click to expand...


Yes, but aren't all of the old ones already purged and any current registration out there on the two year cycle? My other plane would probably be due again if I hadn't sold it already.

I tend to live oblivious to news and I knew about this. Anyone who didn't know about the new two year cycle would really have to live like a hermit. Of course forgetting about getting it done is a whole different story, but should be easily remembered when you go to fly again. "Where am I in that cycle? Ok I'm good, lets go."

Mark
 
To answer the OP's question: yes, it is a scam. They are doing it under the guise of "purging registrations of aircraft that no longer exist" and cleaning up those that have sat neglected in the interest of "security". However the real answer is one that I should not type in respect of the forum rules.

Mark
 
I would not depend on mailed notification. I have had the number for my RV-10 reserved since I began the build and every year I have received a renewal notification ... until this year. This thread jogged my memory and, sure enough, my reservation expired in February. Fortunately, no one took it (so far) and I have requested it again. Yes, I know you are talking registration as opposed to reserving a number but it is the same part of the agency (and operates from the same database). I'm not sure if it was a simple foul-up or budget cuts or what but the point is that even if it normally works, if it doesn't it still is your problem, not theirs. So I will put a reminder in my calendar for both aircraft now and not be caught out again. Imagine if I had lost my number and had already painted the aircraft... :eek:
 
I wouldn't call it a scam. It is a typical bureaucratic response to a perceived problem - in this case, too many aircraft sold, or address changed, without notifying the FAA. I've seen it posted here ("I sold my plane 7 months ago but haven't changed the registration yet....").

Of course they hoped to make money, too, by charging high fees for this. For now, that got beaten down to $5, but in the future....
 
A hermit? I have talked to several other new pilots and neither of them knew about this. As I recall it was not on the VFR examine nor was it in any book that I read. Then I bought not a plane as a 10% owner. There is one other 10% owner, then the 80% owner, who runs the LLC. Any particular reason I would know that a plane had to be reregistered. I knew that you only paid taxes on a plane when you purchase and get it registered it, but I was not aware of the renewal process. So I guess I must be a hermit.

Then the main owner moved and for some reason did not tell the FAA, so he did not get the mail package. Maybe that is because he lost his medical. And since he is not very computer savvy, he did not get anything via email nor take care of it online. It's is what I get for buying into a plane. I cannot wait to have my own plane, but that is several years off, since I will just be getting my rv14 wing kit next week.

At any rate, it appears that the FAA guy is going to allow me to fly back to MI, but then plane is grounded until reregistered.

Thanks for the links, I will let the main owner know about this.

Ken
 
Glad the ferry possibility worked out. Let us know the final outcome and how long it takes! Good luck on the -14.
 
Stockmanreef said:
Then the main owner moved and for some reason did not tell the FAA,

Ken
Click to expand...

And there you have it, exactly why the FAA now requires re-registration.

Glad you got a ferry permit.

No question about it, owning an airplane is an educational experience. I would sugget that even as a minority owner it is in your self interest to get involved. Is your pitot-static/transponder test current? You said you were recently flying ifr. If the pitot-static is overdue, send in an asrs form to nasa to cover yourself. What about the annual condition inspection?

Remind your 80% partner that even if he gets his medical back his license is invalid until he notifies the FAA of his new address.

Btw, except for the $5 registration fee, taxes are a state by state affair. Depending on where you live, there may have been sales tax due when the plane was purchased (I see LLC so even more complicated); there may be annual property taxes, on the aircraft and/or hangar/tiedown. You could live here in CA and have all of them. I would inquire of your partner if these are up to date. Last thing you need is a tax lien.
 
Last edited:
RV Wannabe said:
Anyone who didn't know about the new two year cycle would really have to live like a hermit. Of course forgetting about getting it done is a whole different story, but should be easily remembered when you go to fly again. "Where am I in that cycle? Ok I'm good, lets go."

Mark
Click to expand...

Except that it is a 3 year cycle, not 2. :)
 
Another little "gotcha" I haven't seen mentioned here is that your new registration will expire 3 years from the date you renew it, not from the original expiration date.
So don't be in a real rush to renew early.
 
I had heard that (moves renewal date up), and thought the FAA was going to fix it. Of course, it took them years to fix that same problem for cfi renewals. But one can hope.
 
Registration

King Title does an excellent job of expediting FAA paperwork. However the information on their website about the parameters for loosing and N number and when an expired n number again becomes available is not entirely correct.
I seem to remember that just a few months ago the registration process was running 1-2 weeks. Now it is 2-3 months?? Hmm, I wonder why. Disregard that I know why.
I will acknowlege one thing, there were a significant number of airplanes on the registry that were destroyed, in some cases 40 or more years ago. However the FAA has now created another problem and that is airplanes that have been in long term storage for years. There is now no way to track down those airplanes.
 
renewal dates

I previously complained about renewal dates being moved up if you reregistered early.

It does appear that this has been fixed. My recent FAA reregistration letter specifically stated that early online reregistration letter would not affect the next reregistration date. Searching the online database after doing so indicates that is in fact true.

Still a PITA though.
 
"scam"? no..... "shakedown" perhaps.....

If you're lucky enough to buy a plane while it's re-registration timeframe window is open, a single $5 fee gets you the registration transfer plus the next 3 years of registration in your name. When I was in the process of buying mine, there was some confusion about whether the current owner/seller had to pay a $5 fee to re-register it then I would have to pay another $5 fee to transfer the registration to myself but that wasn't the case.
 
When I registered my RV7, I called the FAA registration office and talked to a very nice lady, she confirmed I had all the required paperwork to submit and gave me her name to attach to the registration, I got it back in two weeks.

It seems like folks are being tracked more and more.. And if there is a glitch with the registration or the N number you could have the local police waiting for you... Such as John and Martha King did. There have been several others that were met by authorities just for not using flight following or filing a flight plan on a long trip or changing destination on an IFR trip. We had occasion to change destination on our corporate jet and were asked why the change, we inquired who wanted to know, they responded TSA..

Smilin Jack
Corporate Pilot 35 years.hopefully retiring in 4
Challenger 601-3A
Hawker 800XP
 
Last edited:
Smilin' Jack said:
There have been several others that were met by authorities just for not using flight following or filing a flight plan on a long trip or changing destination on an IFR trip.
Click to expand...

there is no requirement to use flight following or file a flight plan. I am waiting to see how successful AOPA is in their recent inquiry and now court filing into unexplained, unprovocated meeting/detaining GA aircraft.

I know of a Lancair 4 that has been meet by local police several times at our airport because he flies up from AZ VFR at just below 16,500 ft at 300+ kts without a flight plan. Making this RV relevant, are we now considered a threat that they are tracking us?

Be careful out there, you are being watched.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top