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Auto Pilot/ Panel Options

B

beberle

Active Member
Looking for advice from pilots who've already traveled this path. My RV-6A touts a basic 6-pack panel w/ a single radio and VFR panel-mounted GPS. I've owned her for 7 months and have already done 4 x-countries in excess of 450nm. Having a blast, but this baby needs an Auto Pilot. Or, I should say, I need an auto pilot; my brain starts melting after 21/2hrs of hand flying.
My 1st thought was to just install a TruTrak to replace the turn-bank. Fairly painless w/ little downtime. I want one that's capable of tracking glideslope should I ever add to or upgrade the 250XL. Cost? $3-$4k?
However... several local pilots have upgraded to Dynon Skyviews and state that for JUST A FEW DOLLARS MORE I can have a glass panel as well as autopilot. It looks like a single 10" panel w/ servos would run approx $7,500. I'm tempted, but that's twice the cost and the downtime could be considerable.
I have the $ to install just the autopilot in the Fall, or I'd have to wait another year to round up funds for the panel upgrade. I'm happy w/ my 6-pack, and would be unhappy having to rip out the panel for the upgrade. And yes, I'd like to eventually have my machine IMC capable.

Advice?Thoughts?

Brian


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My panel isn't that different from yours, and I would just opt for the autopilot. I'd keep an eye out for some used or "never installed but decided on a different direction" autopilots. Search the classifieds for Trio or Tru-Trak. You can probably pick up a solution for less than $3K.

I currently have a Trio Pro-Pilot where your Turn Coordinator is. It is a nice autopilot, although the slip/skid on the Trio is sort of hard to see.

My impression is that the current generation of autopilots won't be obsolete for quite awhile. I can't say the same thing about any of the various EFIS.

I'll eventually move to glass, but only when something breaks, and even then it will probably just be a D10A.
 
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I'm sure that there are folks with differing opinions, but I strongly believe if you are going to fly IFR to have an independent auto pilot, such as Trutrak or Trio. I want to be able to control the auto pilot independently manually should the rare instance occur in which the EFIS fails.

I would recommend fully understanding the failure modes of which ever product you chose. My perspective is that the independent AP can keep the wings level and on a straight track to give me think time in case of an EFIS failure. I don't want to be in a situation in which I'm hand flying and attempting to debug the the situation at the same time. Admittedly, I'm not familiar with the failure modes of the EFIS integrated servos, but I'm skeptical on what functionality remains if the EFIS is out of the picture. Granted that should be a very rare instance, but it is something you don't want to happen in IMC conditions.
 
Another option is to get a Dynon D10A EFIS and the auto pilot servos, which will fit in one of the 3 1/8" holes on the panel. The wiring is fairly basic. Just make sure you run enough wires to the servos for Skyview use in the future (same servos, same wires, different system). This would probably be the cheapest option that would allow you to eventually go to a Skyview system with glideslope coupling and things like that.

http://dynonavionics.com/docs/Autopilot_intro.html

Yet another option is to get a TruTrak system with 2 servos and a basic programmer (ADI Pilot, etc.) and get that running. Then you could upgrade to a Digiflight II VSGV or Sorcerer, etc down the road and use the same servos and wiring.

Feel free to drop me an email or give me a call if you want to talk a little about the wiring options for either setup.

352-427-0285
 
Thanks for the ideas gents. I hadn't considered the Dynon D10A, but it's a cost-effective auto pilot and has the added benefit of serving as a loc/glide slope indicator and backup attitude to my vacuum system.
I've been waiting on the TruTrak Gemini AP 780, but the D10 might make a lot of sense for my immediate mission.

Blue Skies!
 
I think you can get a new Trio 2 axis autopilot for $3K. Keep the turn coordinator, I think the Trio rack mount would fit below your transponder. (If you get the 3 1/8" version to replace the turn coordinator, the Trio will show a turn coordinator presentation and has a slip-skid (ball) as well.

If you later upgrade your gps to a wass unit with LPV approaches, Trio can upgrade the autopilot to GPSS/GPSV and it will fly the LPV approach for you.

Disclaimer: I have a Trio Pro w/ GPSS/GPSV and auto-trim.
 
Autopilot prices are falling, so check with someone like Stein regularly. I'm with Bob L, I think a separate autopilot with its own gyros (etc) is a very good insurance policy.

I have recently installed at TT Digiflight II VS and am very happy with it. If you need ILS tracking you will (realistically) have to install an EFIS to track the ILS and then send the commands to the autopilot. From the TT perspective you will need a Digiflight II VSGV (around $5000) to accept the signals to follow an ILS. The only alternative is the TT Sorcerer (but its around $7000) that has built in ILS coupling capability. Bear in mind that the servos are the same for all TT boxes and the only difference between the Digiflight boxes is a software upgrade. TT have quite a good upgrade policy and will give a substantial trade-in discount if upgrading.

The TT autopilot that uses a Horizon as the front end is an ADIpilot II which runs around $4000, but will only accept basic left-right steering commands (won't track a localizer).

I am not familiar with the Trio or Dynon offerings, but if ILS compatibility is important I suggest you check that there are people flying with that functionality before parting with cash (as there has been some discussion about that specific functionality).

Pete

PS Forgot to add the TT Gemini options - but seems like you have that covered.
 
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I just went in to change a fuse...

I started where you are. Then I had a vacuum pump fail. Then I thought "for just a couple more grand I could"......

Set your budget first, then figure out what you can do with it :D
 
penguin said:
Autopilot prices are falling, so check with someone like Stein regularly. I'm with Bob L, I think a separate autopilot with its own gyros (etc) is a very good insurance policy.

I have recently installed at TT Digiflight II VS and am very happy with it. If you need ILS tracking you will (realistically) have to install an EFIS to track the ILS and then send the commands to the autopilot. From the TT perspective you will need a Digiflight II VSGV (around $5000) to accept the signals to follow an ILS. The only alternative is the TT Sorcerer (but its around $7000) that has built in ILS coupling capability. Bear in mind that the servos are the same for all TT boxes and the only difference between the Digiflight boxes is a software upgrade. TT have quite a good upgrade policy and will give a substantial trade-in discount if upgrading.

The TT autopilot that uses a Horizon as the front end is an ADIpilot II which runs around $4000, but will only accept basic left-right steering commands (won't track a localizer).

I am not familiar with the Trio or Dynon offerings, but if ILS compatibility is important I suggest you check that there are people flying with that functionality before parting with cash (as there has been some discussion about that specific functionality).

Pete

PS Forgot to add the TT Gemini options - but seems like you have that covered.
Click to expand...

Just as a note (I know I'm behind on getting our site updated and such!) but the Digiflight II VSGV with servos and hardware now retails for $3450.
 
Lucas - I had to use Spruce as a reference as your page was not available! See the 1st line!!
 
Lucas,
Is the TruTrak Gemini AP880 part of the 'EFIS' discontinued line? The DigitrackII VSVG pricing is in my ballpark.

The Dynon D10A + autopilot look like it'll run ~$4k. That would be the closest competition to the AP880. However, the AP880 would look much cleaner on my panel.
 
The Gemini AP products have not been shelved. They are still in the development plan but are not yet available. I can't quite give you a price at this time either, but it will be quite reasonable. Thanks!
 
there's more to flying IFR and approaches than an AP and a 250XL

what about redundancy? The skyview costs you see on the website are not what you will end up paying for a competent and redundant IFR platform, expect $20k with an approved GPS (i.e, 430w or something)

ask me how i know :\ i started out with a VFR panel and wanted an autopilot

now i LOVE my current panel, just saying that it is more involved than you can imagine
 
Agreed. I'm trying to make sure that I have a good 'direction' eventually building a redundant IFR system. I've decided I'm going with $3-4k on a 31/4" stand alone autopilot (vertical guidance capable or upgradeable) in the fall that will facilitate my x-countries over the next couple years. Then ~$6k for a used Garmin GPS/Comm primarily for the 2nd radio and better GPS readout. Finally, probably a dual Skyview system.
Probably a 5-year plan, but I plan on having my RV-6 for the next 25 :)

Thanks Gentlemen!
 
Crazy how time flies! I just finished the install of a TruTtak Gemini AP. It was well worth the wait! I took it out for it's test run yesterday in very turbulent air. I was surprised how well it tracked in such rough conditions! I'm sure a little tweaking will be needed when things get smoother... Or not. This is my 1st autopilot, very surreal watching your plane fly itself. Having a PFD and redundant attitude indicator really does a lot for a tired 6-pack.
Also a shout out to Lucas at TruTrak. Always a fast response to any questions.

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Nice... one question: Why didn't you switch the TT and the other attitude indicator?

Seems having the one with the most info on top would be easier.

Anyway, good choice going with TT. I'm popping in a Gemini ADI as my backup attitude (backing up my Dynon D-100)

Fly safe. And stay awake while auto takes you places.
 
Rob,
My opinion may change as I put hours on it, but it's primary purpose is an auto pilot and secondary is a backup instrument to my vacuum gauges. I've still got the '6-pack scan', not sure if or when I wil use it as the primary reference.
Sure am looking forward to the next long X country ;-)

Brian
 
I'm definitely with Rob on this one. I would take the Gemini over the other 5. It gives all the same info in a much tighter scan.
 
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