pierre smith
Well Known Member
My wife, Jenny, wants to know what you IFR types are using for electronic charts....preferably on a laptop, which she intends to use for our IFR trips to be paperless mostly,
Thanks,
Thanks,
Van's Air Force
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IFR low altitude charts on a laptop?
- Thread starter pierre smith
- Start date
I have been thinking about that and specially if you can be in such format that can be searched for fix/intersections.
As you know I am pretty new with IFR and on a couple of flights that I have been lately, it seemed to be a bit of a task when they change your clearance and give you a new fix to go to. Finding the fix on the map to get the spelling/direction etc takes a bit longer for me that I like it to be and it would be great if we can searchable map.
On the other hand, my instructor and the guy that I took my check ride were telling me that while on IFR flight no other electronic equipment including IPod can be operated and if that is the case, wouldn't a laptop fall in the same category? I wonder?.
As you know I am pretty new with IFR and on a couple of flights that I have been lately, it seemed to be a bit of a task when they change your clearance and give you a new fix to go to. Finding the fix on the map to get the spelling/direction etc takes a bit longer for me that I like it to be and it would be great if we can searchable map.
On the other hand, my instructor and the guy that I took my check ride were telling me that while on IFR flight no other electronic equipment including IPod can be operated and if that is the case, wouldn't a laptop fall in the same category? I wonder?.
jcaplins
Well Known Member
I think it's still at the pilots discretion as to what electronics can be operated.
Sec. 91.21
Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to--
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other
aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.
Sec. 91.21
Portable electronic devices.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to--
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other
aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.
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terrykohler
Well Known Member
Mehrdad:
When ATC assigns a fix you're not certain of, ask them to spell it. Easy enough to then enter into your GPS, which will immediately give you positional reference.
Pierre:
Whatever software you use, SOP with EFBs is to print out a hard copy of IAPs at your destination and alternate for backup. If the computer fails AND you need to divert to something other than flightplan, ATC should be able to give you the necessary info to fly any approach.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
When ATC assigns a fix you're not certain of, ask them to spell it. Easy enough to then enter into your GPS, which will immediately give you positional reference.
Pierre:
Whatever software you use, SOP with EFBs is to print out a hard copy of IAPs at your destination and alternate for backup. If the computer fails AND you need to divert to something other than flightplan, ATC should be able to give you the necessary info to fly any approach.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
DGlaeser
Well Known Member
Paperless IFR - sort of
I download the approach plates to a tablet PC (Samsung Q1) using Mike Steward's automated process he developed for the GRT EFIS. This creates a file folder for each airport and inside each folder are the PDF files for that airport (apprroaches, SIDS, STARS).
You can also get them from the NACOmatic site (http://dranz.readyhosting.com/) which has PDF 'books' similar to the NOS books - one PDF file for one or more states. The PDF directory is used to navigate to where you want to go.
I haven't seen electronic IFR enroute charts, but I haven't looked for them either. If anyone has a (free
source for those, I'd be interested.
I print out the approach charts I plan to use, and have a current enroute chart in the cockpit. I would only use the PC for an unanticipated approach.
I download the approach plates to a tablet PC (Samsung Q1) using Mike Steward's automated process he developed for the GRT EFIS. This creates a file folder for each airport and inside each folder are the PDF files for that airport (apprroaches, SIDS, STARS).
You can also get them from the NACOmatic site (http://dranz.readyhosting.com/) which has PDF 'books' similar to the NOS books - one PDF file for one or more states. The PDF directory is used to navigate to where you want to go.
I haven't seen electronic IFR enroute charts, but I haven't looked for them either. If anyone has a (free
source for those, I'd be interested. I print out the approach charts I plan to use, and have a current enroute chart in the cockpit. I would only use the PC for an unanticipated approach.
hevansrv7a
Well Known Member
ATC not so much
Perhaps they should be able, but I recall the one time I asked them to do it they did not have or said they did not have the information I needed such as altitude for the leg before the IAF, ID for the IAP, DH, missed approach specs, the basics. Based on only one experience, I would not recommend depending on ATC.
A related experience - I once flew IFR to KFRG on Long Island and they routed me so far north that the waypoint was off my enroute chart. It was an unpleasant discussion, but they amended the route "to accommodate your non-chart status". I could have found it with my '295 but I would not have had all the other relevant information to fly that route.
Perhaps they should be able, but I recall the one time I asked them to do it they did not have or said they did not have the information I needed such as altitude for the leg before the IAF, ID for the IAP, DH, missed approach specs, the basics. Based on only one experience, I would not recommend depending on ATC.
A related experience - I once flew IFR to KFRG on Long Island and they routed me so far north that the waypoint was off my enroute chart. It was an unpleasant discussion, but they amended the route "to accommodate your non-chart status". I could have found it with my '295 but I would not have had all the other relevant information to fly that route.
tc1234c
Well Known Member
If you are willing to pay a few hundred dollars
They do have geo-referenced IFR Low Altitude and High Altitude Charts, approach plates and airport diagram.
http://www.seattleavionics.com/Modules.aspx?gpm=1_6
They do have geo-referenced IFR Low Altitude and High Altitude Charts, approach plates and airport diagram.
http://www.seattleavionics.com/Modules.aspx?gpm=1_6
Pierre is looking for enroute charts, so while the plates may help, they aren't what he's after.
We're actually working on some enroute stuff, though. I have a few Kindle samples if anyone wants them. Drop an email to admin <at> pdfplates.com. They will work on a laptop, too, but I have another format in mind for them that might work better.
You might just check out the iFly 700. You get what you are asking for, with a GPS thrown in to boot. $500 and $89.95/year for updates. It is very simple to use. I did beta testing on it and it works well. Sectionals can be hard to read in bright sunlight, but plates (all B&W stuff) are fine. The website doesn't mention enroute charts yet as those are part of the newest release. It will be at SnF. My only connection is as a beta tester.
Bob Kelly
Bob Kelly
tommylewis
Well Known Member
my solution
Pierre, for the last couple years we have flying around the country carrying a Samsung NP-Q1 tablet and running RMS's Flightsoft flight planning program and their moving map program called Vista. They provide a monthly CD with all the approach plates for the country for $119 a year and low altitude charts and sectionals can be downloaded before each trip. We print out the approaches for our intended stops and carry the tablet to use for our changes because of weather or change of plans. This solution has worked very well for us. We are flying out to Florida tomorrow morning with this solution.
Pierre, for the last couple years we have flying around the country carrying a Samsung NP-Q1 tablet and running RMS's Flightsoft flight planning program and their moving map program called Vista. They provide a monthly CD with all the approach plates for the country for $119 a year and low altitude charts and sectionals can be downloaded before each trip. We print out the approaches for our intended stops and carry the tablet to use for our changes because of weather or change of plans. This solution has worked very well for us. We are flying out to Florida tomorrow morning with this solution.
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hevansrv7a
Well Known Member
Paper
I don't trust laptops enough to depend on one in an aircraft. I can't speak about tablets, but my inclination is the same. Geo-referenced moving map is very good, no dispute there.
My decision after looking to clean up the mess, etc. was Air Chart Systems. You get a spiral bound book with all the enroute charts (VFR also available), it weighs the same or less than a laptop and you can read it in sunlight. Never needs batteries. You can write on it or use removable colored tape.
I have VFR and IFR subscriptions.
Part of the subscription is web access to current updates along a route you specify. They also send cumulative updates for every cycle.
I don't trust laptops enough to depend on one in an aircraft. I can't speak about tablets, but my inclination is the same. Geo-referenced moving map is very good, no dispute there.
My decision after looking to clean up the mess, etc. was Air Chart Systems. You get a spiral bound book with all the enroute charts (VFR also available), it weighs the same or less than a laptop and you can read it in sunlight. Never needs batteries. You can write on it or use removable colored tape.
I have VFR and IFR subscriptions.
Part of the subscription is web access to current updates along a route you specify. They also send cumulative updates for every cycle.
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Thanks guys....
...I agree....big, cumbersome maps, even in the -10 cockpit can be a pain. Yesterday, a former Caravan pilot told me he leaves the maps in his bag and the GPS tells him where he is every minute
He says he's legal then and if he needs a map, he'll simply pull it. Personally, I like seeing where I am all the time so the Aircharts look like a good way to go...thanks,
Best,
...I agree....big, cumbersome maps, even in the -10 cockpit can be a pain. Yesterday, a former Caravan pilot told me he leaves the maps in his bag and the GPS tells him where he is every minute
He says he's legal then and if he needs a map, he'll simply pull it. Personally, I like seeing where I am all the time so the Aircharts look like a good way to go...thanks,
Best,
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
...I agree....big, cumbersome maps, even in the -10 cockpit can be a pain. Yesterday, a former Caravan pilot told me he leaves the maps in his bag and the GPS tells him where he is every minute
He says he's legal then and if he needs a map, he'll simply pull it. Personally, I like seeing where I am all the time so the Aircharts look like a good way to go...thanks,
For cross country mountainous trips, I use the AOPA flight planner with the terrain overlay. This map also has airway overlays if desired. I print it out, and carry on the kneeboard. The cumbersome maps stay in the side pockets usually. Of course the 696 works well too!
L.Adamson -- RV6A
hevansrv7a
Well Known Member
DUATS Golden Eagle
When IFR, I fly VOR to VOR with the '496 and the A.P. but still need enroute charts for minimum altitudes and other such info.
The DUATS Golden Eagle is a free flight planner with terrain, terrain profile, airways, intersections, WX overlays, integrated flight plan filing, etc. For in-cockpit, you can always upgrade to their tablet-based products, too. It's features, user interface and performance, last I looked, were nicer than AOPA's. Of course, AOPA's runs on the internet for when/ if you don't take a computer with you or have a Mac or Linux computer.For cross country mountainous trips, I use the AOPA flight planner with the terrain overlay. This map also has airway overlays if desired. I print it out, and carry on the kneeboard. The cumbersome maps stay in the side pockets usually. Of course the 696 works well too!
L.Adamson -- RV6A
When IFR, I fly VOR to VOR with the '496 and the A.P. but still need enroute charts for minimum altitudes and other such info.
Source to download IFR Enroute Low Altitude charts
Naco provides the IFR Enroute Low Altitude charts as a pdf file. They are a scanned copy of the paper chart and cost $1.65 ea.
http://naco.faa.gov/ecomp/Catalog.aspx?a=AERO+NOS+DIGITAL+DELUS
Bill Swatling.
Naco provides the IFR Enroute Low Altitude charts as a pdf file. They are a scanned copy of the paper chart and cost $1.65 ea.
http://naco.faa.gov/ecomp/Catalog.aspx?a=AERO+NOS+DIGITAL+DELUS
Bill Swatling.
Steve Brown
Well Known Member
Flightsoft from RMSTek
Been using it since about 2005. Works pretty good and the subscription of sectionals, low & high en rout, and VFR terminal is very reasonable. All downloadable and they have a nice engine on board the software for keeping everything up to date
I also get their approach plates. They come on a dvd
Like any product, I've got complaints, but have yet to find a superior replacement
Been using it since about 2005. Works pretty good and the subscription of sectionals, low & high en rout, and VFR terminal is very reasonable. All downloadable and they have a nice engine on board the software for keeping everything up to date
I also get their approach plates. They come on a dvd
Like any product, I've got complaints, but have yet to find a superior replacement
DGlaeser
Well Known Member
iPad + ForeFlight
Yesterday I flew with a former student for an IPC and he brought his iPad ($500) with ForeFlight sofware on it. Has all the VFR charts, IFR approch plates, IFR enroute charts, flight planning, weather ... all for $77/year. The sunlight readability and clarity are great. I was totally impressed.
Anybody want to buy a Samsung Q1 (with all the plates and Kahuna's s/w already loaded)?
Yesterday I flew with a former student for an IPC and he brought his iPad ($500) with ForeFlight sofware on it. Has all the VFR charts, IFR approch plates, IFR enroute charts, flight planning, weather ... all for $77/year. The sunlight readability and clarity are great. I was totally impressed.
Anybody want to buy a Samsung Q1 (with all the plates and Kahuna's s/w already loaded)?
I would very highly recommend seattle avionics new skypad and lifetime ifr efb subscription. I will cost you for there tablet pc, bluetooth gps etc. and lifetime subscription Around 1700.00. They setup everthing for you and it is very easy to use. Also have webinars. But you get all vfr and ifr charts scanned and electonic as well as all approach plates. everything updated as neccessary to stay current for no more money. All georeferenced so your airplane is overlaid on all maps and charts as you fly. So no more need to buy any sectionals ifr maps appoach plates etc. You also get Seattles voyager flight planning software. To me it sounds to good to be true. I have used the flightplanning software for 4 years or so and last year at OSH. bought the skypad and lifetime subscription. Today was flying back to Kansas from Ark. IFR did not anticipate needing to do a approach but did I pulled out the skypad brought up the georeferenced approach the airplane showed up on the plate. I love it. If you have the funds buy the whole enchilada it is way more then worth the cost to me. The company is great to work with. Look it up on the web. For me its a no brainer. I have never come across a better setup and have done lots of research on line.
Capflyer
Well Known Member
Flight Cheetah
Pierre,
Check out the Flight Cheetah. It is small enough to place on my knee in the RV4. The software is on a Villiv mini computer with internet access. The price is right. It included geo-referenced L-Charts, TACs, Sectionals, and others. It also has approach plates and approaches you can load. 3D terrain, HITS, victor airways, etc. http://www.aviationsafety.com/ The price is right as are the update subscriptions.
One of the problems with the large table PC's other companies are offering is that they are heavy and get very hot while on. Too big to really put on your leg and the batteries run down too fast so you have to plug them in. The Villiv runs about 4.5 hrs on a charge so I never have to bother with a power cord.
Pierre,
Check out the Flight Cheetah. It is small enough to place on my knee in the RV4. The software is on a Villiv mini computer with internet access. The price is right. It included geo-referenced L-Charts, TACs, Sectionals, and others. It also has approach plates and approaches you can load. 3D terrain, HITS, victor airways, etc. http://www.aviationsafety.com/ The price is right as are the update subscriptions.
One of the problems with the large table PC's other companies are offering is that they are heavy and get very hot while on. Too big to really put on your leg and the batteries run down too fast so you have to plug them in. The Villiv runs about 4.5 hrs on a charge so I never have to bother with a power cord.
Which version of the Flight Cheetah do you have? Sounds like you are happy with it??
Capflyer
Well Known Member
I have the FL150. All the software is the same regardless of which computer it is put on.
I really like being able to load in an approach and have it on the screen. It makes for great situational awareness since I do not have a x30 or 480.
I FLy700
I just started flying with an I fly 700. Put 5.5 hours on it yesterday on IFR flight plans. I was given some unexpected airways routing, and I had no problem figuring it out and then loading it in to the Garmin 430W (still can't believe Garmin doesn't have airways!).
Here are some things that might need some improvement:
Seems a little dim in direct sunlight, but still readable.
The course was always 6 degrees off. Can't figure that one out and have sent them a note. Both my Garmin 430 and 296 read the exact same course (ground track), but the 700 unit was always 6 degrees less, on all compass headings. Really weird.
Wish it had a battery.
Other than that, for $500 and $89 a year to cover everything seems really good right now.
Vic
I just started flying with an I fly 700. Put 5.5 hours on it yesterday on IFR flight plans. I was given some unexpected airways routing, and I had no problem figuring it out and then loading it in to the Garmin 430W (still can't believe Garmin doesn't have airways!).
Here are some things that might need some improvement:
Seems a little dim in direct sunlight, but still readable.
The course was always 6 degrees off. Can't figure that one out and have sent them a note. Both my Garmin 430 and 296 read the exact same course (ground track), but the 700 unit was always 6 degrees less, on all compass headings. Really weird.
Wish it had a battery.
Other than that, for $500 and $89 a year to cover everything seems really good right now.
Vic
