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(Next Generation) Amazon Kindle DX: The perfect EFB

H

hughfi

Well Known Member
Hi Folks,

Please check out the picture of the approach plate at the new Amazon Kindle DX launch today in New York from Engadget.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/06/live-from-amazons-kindle-event-in-nyc/

You can see an approach to JFK in there. I have seen this product in the flesh and it presents approach plates incredibly well for those of you who wanted a top class gadget for this. Add to that its internet access for weather before you go etc. and you are on to a useful device. Now keep the FAR's, your POH, manual etc. on it and it might just be useful...?:)

Enjoy. You can buy it at www.amazon.com/kindledx
 
This was discussed in this thread. Another poster indicated that the quality of viewing was not adequate due to poor rendering by the PDF viewer.

This could have been due to an earlier version of the PDF viewer included with Kindle, or may have been that the plate viewed did not render as well.

Would love to hear some more users provide feedback before going down this path...

Also - I was advised the Kindle does not have a backlight. It would therefore require that you have some external light shining on it for night use.
 
This is a new device, not the one previously reviewed. The new one is the Kindle DX. It has a much larger display.

Currently on the front page of amazon.com they have a big ad for it and a side-by-side with the old Kindle and the new one.
 
The whole idea of the kindle is to not have a backlight.

Its not supposed to have a backlight as its supposed to be e-ink and read like paper. Similarly, paper plates do not come with a light clip.


Yes, this is a NEW DEVICE and it NATIVELY supports PDF unlike the Kindle2. As mentioned, I have seen plates on this device and they are flawless in my opinion.
 
How sensitive is the auto-rotate feature? If I have one of these on my lap or strapped to my thigh, in turbulence, what orientation is it going to display?

--Paul
 
CJK said:
Wait a couple of weeks -- Apple is rumored to soon be coming out with something about the same size but with the same touchscreen technology that's in the iPhone...

-- Chris
Click to expand...

If it's produced by Apple then I definitely want one of those. Their products and customer service are just excellent.
 
And the apple will probably have a new technology color screen. wifi, blue tooth, safari, gps, and phone.
 
Jamie said:
This is a new device, not the one previously reviewed. The new one is the Kindle DX. It has a much larger display.

Currently on the front page of amazon.com they have a big ad for it and a side-by-side with the old Kindle and the new one.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification - saw it on the news last night. Retail price nearly $500.

Yes to the other poster, I do know paper plates also need a light! :D However, our EFIS units are spoiling us and I am hoping for a unit which is self-lit. I have a small tablet computer which is rather heavy and has short battery life if the power cord jostles loose in a bumpy cockpit.

Anyway, this unit looks like it will fit the bill for many users. Good news!
 
I'm waiting for Apple's, then I'll decide. Much like I waited for the Blackberry Storm because I wanted to stay with Verizon Wireless, then ended up trying it, and switching to ATT and the iPhone.

I've seen and used a Kindle 2 a little, and REALLY like the concept, and for an EFB, it's hard to beat... except if you have the money for a 696...

I'd be seriously concerned about battery life on an Apple product, having had many Apple laptops over the years, and knowing that battery life claims are ALWAYS exaggerated on them.
 
breister said:
Yes to the other poster, I do know paper plates also need a light! :D However, our EFIS units are spoiling us and I am hoping for a unit which is self-lit. I have a small tablet computer which is rather heavy and has short battery life if the power cord jostles loose in a bumpy cockpit.
Click to expand...

If your tablet computer is fairly modern, probably about half of its power consumption is due to the backlight. :)
 
sreynard said:
If your tablet computer is fairly modern, probably about half of its power consumption is due to the backlight. :)
Click to expand...

Yah, I bought it used on Amazon for $300. The battery is nearly shot - only get about 10 minutes on it. Nice unit though, and fine for my needs - it will also update my Dynon software so I don't have to lug a heavy laptop to the airport.
 
I didn't see

anywhere that you could plug in additional memory sticks.

Is 3.3GB enough to get the whole nation's worth of plates in this thing?

I assume one could just select the states we need from Rainsux excellent website to down load?

has anyone tried one of these yet?

Frank
 
It depends on how many books you have on it when you download your plates?

I am pretty sure you could put all of the US plates in 1GB, but I have not checked.

No slot for a memory card, but 3gb is a lot of space for such items.
 
The full set of approach plates in PDF is slightly under 4 GB. I could not get them all on a 4 GB USB flash drive this morning. I'm using a Samsung Q1 tablet running under Windows XP. It does a decent job of displaying the plates, but its screen could be a bit brighter. I purchased it used on Ebay for around $400.
 
The q1 ultra is a great device especially if you can pick one up for around $500.

It offers the flexibility of a travel computer along with the convenience of a small EFB.

100_2236_Small.jpg


100_2238_Small.jpg


With the touch of a button you can rotate the screen from landscape for charts to portrait for approach plates . The full plate is displayed in protrait at obout the same size as an actual NOAA plate. The extended life battery lasts for about 6 hrs with the baclklight running continuously. Add a small foldable keyboard and mouse and at your destination you have a computeer with wi fi.
 
Kindle DX Shipped

My Kindle DX has shipped - should be here next week and I will give a full report on how well it presents pdf plates.
 
Just for a reference point

I use the Reader Plates product for plates on a Sony 505. It is 1.47GB and using a 2GB card it is 3/4 full for all US plates, including US territories.

I know they do a conversion to make them display optimally on the Sony reader, but I am not sure what it does to the size of the files.

hughfi said:
I am pretty sure you could put all of the US plates in 1GB, but I have not checked.

No slot for a memory card, but 3gb is a lot of space for such items.
Click to expand...
 
Kindle DX - Not So Killer EFB Alternative ...

A Kindle DX review with IAPs was posted on the AOPA forums
yesterday. The news is a mix of good and bad:

The good:

- IAPs are crisp and readable.
- IAPs are a teenie bit larger than NACO's printed pages.

The bad:

- The PDF reader does not support (PDF) bookmarks. (Grrr)

A workaround: Download "utilities.zip" from NACOmatic.com
These utils will download one IAP/file. The Kindle's TOC
navigator can search the filenames. i.e. Searching for JFK
will find all IAPs with JFK anywhere in the filename.

- The Kindle TOC/navigator ignores directory hierarchies.
There are directories ... the Kindle DX appears as a std
USB thumb drive when attached to a PC. The navigator simply
ignores them and displays all files as if everything is in
a single directory. This inhibits having the current-cycle
and next-cycle of IAPs loaded. Grrr.

Workaround: I will alter the filenames that my utils create
to include the IAP cycle number as prefix to the filename.

- The web browser is label'd "experimental" ... and does
not correctly render pages with complex graphics. It
reportedly works okay with text-centric websites such
as DUAT/DUATS. Also reported to be slow.

- Battery/screen-saver shuts-off the display after 10 mins.
(OP is trying to determine if this is configurable.)
 
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I have been tinkering around with EFB's for about the last 5 years. I have used mostly Fujitsu Tablet PC's, and even had one modified by ADR Soft so that full sunlight viewability was decent (well, it was just a little better than OK). I just received my Amazon Kindle DX and it absolutely blows away anything I have ever seen in the EFB world for approach plate viewing. The viewability of IAP's on the reader is just outstanding, and are slightly bigger than the original government issued paper IAP. The lettering is crisp, and even with my 56 year old eyes I can read the plate without reading glasses. The downside, as mentioned earlier in this thread, is the way Amazon decided to do directory hierarchy. Even if you create a separate folder on the Kindle (say...'Plates') within the Kindle's 'Documents' folder, everything in the 'Plates' folder is displayed in the 'Documents' folder. You can however search the Kindle for the appropriate airport identifier. So if you search for 'CHO', the Kindle will return everything in the table of contents with 'CHO' in the title. This would not normally be a problem; however if you happen to have a book on the reader such as 'PorkCHOp Hill', the Kindle would list that as well as all CHO plates. But I don't think that would normally be a problem, especially if the Kindle is used almost exclusively as an EFB and not a book reader. I am sure some enterprising individual will figure a way to maximize the workability of the Kindle. The display is truly amazing. As with any electronic ink reader, light is needed to view the display. If it's dark you won't see anything, so at night you'd need a flashlight. But that's the same if you are using paper charts so for me that is not a drawback. FWIW and YMMV.
 
Just got my Kindle DX yesterday and though I have not flown with it yet, this thing is GREEEAT! I use Flightaware.com for my free e-charts since they have ALL the procedures (airport map, SIDs, STARS) as well as all the info that would normally be in the AFD in one PDF file for an airport. Once you have an account, the below link would download a single PDF of all the information for KABE.

http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KABE/ALL/all/pdf

Click on any of the below images for a larger view.


The last picture is the custom web page I created for my kindle.
 
The Kindle will display a PDF of an IAP in superb fashion. However, the inability of the Kindle to display PDF bookmarks is a serious shortcoming. I was about to send the thing back to Amazon until I ran into this:

www.airbrief.com/news

This company has created an index of airports on the first page of each region of the NACO TPP book, each region of which is one LONG PDF. The Kindle will do a page search pretty fast (a couple of seconds). Plus this website has a link that allows you to use the Kindle's wireless capability to display a weather chart. You can even file a flight plan with the Kindle. So, for now, I'm gonna keep it :)
 
Frankly, the lack of bookmarks or TOC is not a show-stopper for me. Since I have individual files for each airport, I just search for the airport using the Kindle search and pull up the airport I need. Also, the Kindle 3G connection and browser allows you to download charts on-demand prior to a flight. While having the full 3.3 Gig of charts would be nice, a proper pre-flight would allow you to load all the required charts plus many alternates. All of which can be done wireless---at $0.15 per Megabyte. I mailed myself two of the Flightaware charts and some other documents (about 8 megs) and my Amazon account was charged $0.90.

Clearly the PDF viewer in the KindleDX has some issues to fix. I loaded the Airventure 2009 NOTAM and there were a lot of items that "could not be displayed."
 
Another (free) source of PDF plates is www.PDFPlates.com

These are bookmarked and indexed. Works real well on a PC. Mobile wise, I have only tried them on my Blackberry. The bookmarks don't work here so I have to use the 'go to page'. Performance is OK; but the Bberry, at least my older one, is not the ideal platform for this type of thing anyway.
 
Flew my first approach with the Kindle DX yesterday. ILS into Groton, CT. Tops at 2,500 broke out at 700. I think I can get rid of all my paper charts now.:D
 
This is great!

jmbaute said:
Another (free) source of PDF plates is www.PDFPlates.com

These are bookmarked and indexed. Works real well on a PC. Mobile wise, I have only tried them on my Blackberry. The bookmarks don't work here so I have to use the 'go to page'. Performance is OK; but the Bberry, at least my older one, is not the ideal platform for this type of thing anyway.
Click to expand...

I was not interested in this at all because I have a 696 and can access the approach procedures on the 696. The 696 is nice because the approach is linked to the destination, and you can toggle between the map and the approach plate. But since my wife ordered a Kindle DX, I decided to look into it. This site and the Airbrief.com site both make the downloads easy, and finding the airport on the index is pretty easy, although you do need the airport identifier to pull up the correct location. And since it's free, I'll think twice before I shell out another $95 for a chart update. Now if I can just get my wife to surrender the Kindle!:)
 
NACOmatic: Kindle DX 'Index' Page

In the next cycle of NACOmatic compilations; I expect
(not promise) to include an index on page 3 for the
Kindle DX users.

It will list the AirportID and page number for the first page of that airports
IAPs, SIDs, STARs & Diagrams.

Since the Kindle DX PDFviewer does not support hyperlinks, you'll have to
[re]enter the page number into the GoTo/JumpTo page box.
 
The NACOmatic by-State bundles have been updated to include a list/index for Kindle DX
users. It is page 3 of every bundle.

The by-Region bundless will be similarly updated, soon.

-doug
 
> the thing to have to dump one's paper subscription or what?

IMHO; no, absolutely positively no.

The Kindle DX's PDFviewer is a heaping, steaming, pile of pooh. It does not support:

- Bookmarks
- TOCs
- Hyperlinks

It has a 10-minute, auto-off timer that apparently cannot be [re]configured.

The list/index on page 3 of my compilatons lists AptIDs and their corresponding
page.

- Put the page number in your short-term memory.
- Press MENU
- Select GOTO PAGE
- Type-in the page number, press Enter/Return
- You are now at the first page of everything for the airport (unless you've made a typo)
- Page forward until you find the page your need. It takes ~1 sec per page and there
is an annoying flash of full-screen black.
- Need a different page?
- Page ... which direction? You're already 'in' the section, but is the page you need
ahead or behind???

My sleeply Class-D has 41 pages. Finding what I need using a Kindle DX is too much
distraction for *MY* cockpit. Everyone gets to make their *OWN* choice.

The PDFviewer has more limitations than I would expect from a sophomore year
science-fair project. Sigh.

Perhaps Amazon will update/enhance/fix the DX's PDFviewer. But, they didn't build a
general purpose device. Their primarily interest is selling you their eBooks.

Additionally; the DX has only 3.3GB of memory. Too little for many users. It also lacks
a SD/SDHC slot ... so you cannot add memory. Sigh.

Next-up? Sony ... is rumored to be working on a large format eBook reader using the
same screen as the DX. Their existing small-screen ebook readers have PDF viewer that
are not crippled. They also include a slot for adding memory. Fingers-crossed that they
don't screw-up the rumored large-screen ebook reader.
 
I suspect the device can have Linux installed. If that is true, then there are a variety of PDF viewers which could be installed.
 
> I suspect the device can have Linux installed. If that is true, then there are a variety
> of PDF viewers which could be installed.

Seems that you are not considering critical aspects of the device ...

The lousy refresh rates of all/current eInk displays ... it takes ~1 sec to [re]paint a
page ... and it also flashes an all-black screen. Ergo; current eInk displays will *NEVER*
be able to support smooth-scrolling windows (need 24-120 frames/sec).

To my knowledge, none of the "a variety of PDF viewers" support the glacial refresh-rate
limitations of eInk displays (implementing a hierarchial menu metaphor - which Sony
has already completed).
 
Bookmarks

Having tested on the ground and in flight my Kindle DX, I have to agree with most of RainSuxs' comments about the DX. What I disagree with is the fact that it does support "self created" bookmarks and that is the way I have set it up to fly with. When I am planning my flight, I set a bookmark for my airport of origin, my destination, my alternate and any other airport that I may need along the way. Then I simply write down the page numbers on my flight plan log and when needed go to the bookmarks page and scroll down to the page I need and hit enter and 1 to 2 seconds later, I have my plate. This method works well and is not as awkward as trying to enter the page numbers while trying to fly (no autopilot C172).
 
> Kindle DX ... it does support "self created" bookmarks ...

Correct. You can create a bookmark on the Kindle DX for yourself, but you cannot use
integral PDF bookmarks.

Creating your own bookmarks to navigate the PDFs can be done ... but why should the
purchaser have to settle for [re]doing the work that is already part of the eBook?

Whenever ATC changes whatever you expect (DP, STAR, IAP, take-off runway, etc) ...
you're back to paging forward (or was it backward) to find the newly assigned procedure
or procedure limitation.

I am indeed glad that you've found an acceptable workaround for Amazon's astonishing
gaps. I do hope they upgrade the PDFviewer to support basic PDF features.

Meanwhile; it seems that Sony may be next in-line to deliver a cockpit-friendly eBook
reader.
 
You guys are talking an unfamiliar language that is way beyond my understanding. Answer me this. Can the user load a series of current sectional charts into such a device? What I (and I suspect many other VFR pilots) would be interested in is a large color display that would allow the pilot to manipulate the displayed information by touch alone to scroll from one geographical area to the next. Its functions would have to include an in-out zoom feature. Does this exist?
 
Put me down for a touch screen device that can display not only approach plates, but any charts you care to upload. I'm really hoping the much rumored Apple iPAD becomes a reality. If the rumors are true, it should be more than capable of performing as a true EFB.
 
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AnywhereMap

Rick6a said:
You guys are talking an unfamiliar language that is way beyond my understanding. Answer me this. Can the user load a series of current sectional charts into such a device? What I (and I suspect many other VFR pilots) would be interested in is a large color display that would allow the pilot to manipulate the displayed information by touch alone to scroll from one geographical area to the next. Its functions would have to include an in-out zoom feature. Does this exist?
Click to expand...

AnywhereMap by Control Vision can be loaded with sectional charts, which can then be manipulated by dragging a finger or stylus across the screen.

Miles
 
Rick:
Anywhere Map has some great features, but you need a computer, not an e-reader to run it. With that come power and placement issues if you're going to use it effectively. On the other hand, e-readers won't do what you're looking for. I'm holding out hope that the Sony unit that RAINSUX refers to makes its way to market soon. He knows of what he speaks - 17 years in the Michigan Correctional system doing nothing but studying hardware/software and lifting weights have made him a highly respected and feared source of information.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
> Can the user load a series of current sectional charts into such a device?

NOT on an eBook reader ... at least not with all the "wants' you detail in
your next sentence.

The current eInk displays are technically incapable of smooth-scrolling and/or
animation because the refresh (repaint) time is too slow by a factor of 24X-120X.
Then there is the matter of having to flash a full-black screen on every refresh.

> What I (and I suspect many other VFR pilots) would be interested in is a large color
> display that would allow the pilot to manipulate the displayed information by touch
> alone to scroll from one geographical area to the next. Its functions would have to
> include an in-out zoom feature. Does this exist?

Yes - tablet PCs. The general objections are:

- Cost
- Daylight readability (screens cost more)
- Windoze ('nuff said)
- Battery life (lack of)
- Spinning disk ($$$ can solve this problem)

TK wrote>> Michigan Correctional system

Aww, geesh. Did'ya have to go there? You left out
the part about us having the same parole officer. <g>
 
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Auburntsts said:
clear.gif
Put me down for a touch screen device that can display not only approach plates, but any charts you care to upload. I'm really hoping the the much rumored Apple iPAD becomes a reality. If the rumors are true, it should be more than capable of performing as a true EFB.
Click to expand...

This would be awesome!
 
yes, still awesome.

Despite some of the complaints on this thread, the kindle is still awesome technology. The e-paper type screen is amazing. And I think this is the start of a great movement of more documents being read on electronic devices.

Sounds like the pdf viewer code could use some work for making it easier to viewing plates on. I'm sure it will be updated at some point. The kindle is still fairly new.

Christopher.
 
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The TouchBook is scheduled to come out this month. Features are shaping up nicely, and with a 10 hour battery life (3 lbs including keyboard) should last long enough for the longest flights. The PDF viewer supports both thumbnails and indexing, too.

:D
 
OSH Notam`

To get the OSH 2009 Notam to work with all the images all you have to do is mail it to your Kindle account.
I tried transferring it from my computer and got the "Can not display all images" message, but after I e-mailed and downloaded it I get the complete Notam.

AirBrief is coming up with new uses weekly and making it more user friendly.
The live brief feature is getting better but still needs work. IMHO
 
UMPCs in the cokpit

My flight bag will soon be boasting one of these:
http://www.myviliv.com/ces/main_s5.html

The device includes a GPS and I have an XP application that can prepare the flight plan and overlay position directly on the charts (sectionals). Awesome additional situation awareness for us in the deeeep south. (Our GPS databases are not generally well populated).

The display is not particuarly cockpit friendly (unfortunately), but it is a full XP computer with SSD and internet connectivity. The S5 should fit easily in the cockpit - the X70 is a 7" version that may be more useful in the long run.

cheers,
Ron
RV-10 VH-XRM, flying in Oz
 
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