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I can do this... no I can't... yes I can...

C

Coinneach

Well Known Member
Preview plans arrived yesterday.

o_O

I have to do this. I promised my kid, my friends, and myself that I would. But... it's a bit overwhelming. And by "a bit," I mean "What in the name of $DEITY have I gotten myself into?!" Jeez, I can't even find a local -9er to give me an intro ride...

Next step: reserve a spot at the builder's course @ RIR 6-7 October. If that goes pear-shaped, I'll resign myself to renting spam cans.
 
YOU CAN DO IT!

Yep, I had the same feeling. BUT once you receive your tail kit and get some full size drawings, parts to touch, tools to fondle, things improve 1000%.

Good luck
 
Coinneach said:
Preview plans arrived yesterday.

o_O

I have to do this. I promised my kid, my friends, and myself that I would. But... it's a bit overwhelming. And by "a bit," I mean "What in the name of $DEITY have I gotten myself into?!" Jeez, I can't even find a local -9er to give me an intro ride...

Next step: reserve a spot at the builder's course @ RIR 6-7 October. If that goes pear-shaped, I'll resign myself to renting spam cans.
Click to expand...

Hey Coinneach, if you can tie your shoes and have passed 4th grade reading, you can build a 9 or any other model. It's only a matter of time, money and how bad do you want an RV. Go for it. :)
 
I'm sure you'll get several replies on this with others that were in the same boat. I received my tail kit before getting a ride in "Old Blue" at OSH in 1995, piloted by Tom Green. You will never regret the experience of building your own airplane.

Don't look at the end product as you immediate goal. Make small goals; finish the horizontal stab. Show it off to friends and family and they will motivate you to continue. Find some people that are building or flying in your area. They, as is this site, are great for information as well as making good friends with similar interests. Sooner that you know, you'll be at the finishing phase and looking forward to flying it.

Enjoy the process. It is not that hard and well worth the investment of your time.
 
I am doing it!

Go, as soon as possible and get some sky in the RV of your preference.

Get the owner to let you fly, and turn, and go up and down, and if its made for it, some aileron rolls, you will be bit with the RV bug. :) :) :)

You will WILL :mad: yourself to work on and finish yours. (get a buddy to help if you lack experience)

I had a ride in Dale Stanley's RV4 in 1989 and still am dreaming :rolleyes: of flying my own.

Just finished the wings and the fusealage slow build kit is on the way. :cool:
 
Don't be overwhelmed by the overall picture.

Remember the story about eating an elephant...One bite at a time!
 
Building a plane is like eating an elephant. If you sit down and eat it in one sitting you are going to make yourself sick. But if you take small bites and make many bites over a long period of time you will get the sucker eaten and not get sick. Same with plane building.
 
plans

I remember receiving the preview plans and reading through them and being very overwhelmed. I almost decided to cancel my building plans from that experience alone. However, when you have the plans, drawings and PARTS in front of you it all starts to make sense. I am a first time builder with no previous building experience, not even a bird house. If I can do it, anyone can. Someone else has already said, perseverance. thats all it takes.

200+ hours in flying 9A.
 
Thanks for all the encouragement, guys (has it been said that RVers are the best? If not, it oughta be). To give myself a bit of a kick in the arse, I ordered a Bose X headset a little while ago. I'm not gonna waste that kind of pretty on a worn-out rental Cherokee.
 
?

I'd of ordered the Clarity Aloft headset myself... but anyways.... It's also really good to find some friends to help you eat that elephant... perhaps they can bring some good sized dinner plates and seasoning! ps.. the Clarity Aloft headset has music input and they are stereo and mono.... the Bose do not have a music input(and they require a battery)... Clarity aloft does not require a battery and they are also half the price with better performance, dont forget you can wear a cap and the button wont get squeezed by the headband... and the Bose or any others except Clarity can scratch the canopy...not to mention having a vice on your head... Dont forget to buy the Avery tools.... and a pneumatic squeezer...
Best
Brian
 
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Build or Buy

Judging from the multitude of unbuilt kits out there, I think there is more to this hobby than "being able to tie your shoes". I love my 9 project, but it's my 3rd homebuilt, with an A&P license, and two or three times now I wanted to take an axe to it! It is a challenge, to be sure, and sometimes I wonder how guys with no mechanical background get it done. Not to say you can't do it, you certainly can, but ask yourself the following questions:

1) Do I enjoy working with my hands? Doing I enjoy being in the garage?
2) Have I built things in the past (cars, motorcycles, model airplanes)?
3) How do I feel about devoting 3 to 6 years of spare time to a project, while doing very little flying?
4) Will your family tolerate the project?

If you cannot answer yes to most of these questions, I would consider buying a flying RV. If flying is your primary goal, 5 years is a long time to wait. If you love tinkering with machines, this is a wonderful pastime, and I have absolutely no regrets. If you do decide to build, don't get in a hurry, treat the build as an adventure in itself and have a blast. Just be sure it's what you want to do.
 
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I've had the same feeling often...even AFTEr I got the tail kit. In fact when that massive fuselage kit arrived, well... check the archives.

Fortunately folks talked me down and step by step, inch by inch, year by year, I'm creating just one part.

Bottom line: it'll get done when it gets done. No pressure.

You can do it.

Hey, I flunked shop in high school and *I'm* doing it. Ain't no way you're dumber than me.
 
This might help.

I can do this... no I can't... yes I can...
______________________________________
Preview plans arrived yesterday.......

You can't take the sky from me.
---
RV-9
N935F reserved
Click to expand...

If you are in the states, Send me a PM with your contact info.

I have a small present I will send you for your encouragement. :)
 
Bob Collins said:
I've had the same feeling often...even AFTEr I got the tail kit. In fact when that massive fuselage kit arrived, well... check the archives.

Fortunately folks talked me down and step by step, inch by inch, year by year, I'm creating just one part.

Bottom line: it'll get done when it gets done. No pressure.

You can do it.

Hey, I flunked shop in high school and *I'm* doing it. Ain't no way you're dumber than me.
Click to expand...

Probably helpful for the gentleman to know you've been working on yours for about 6 years. I believe Doug Reeves also took 6 years. I've spent 3 years, and still have a ways to go! This hobby is a heck of a commitment. If you really want to do it, you can..........but lock up your axe before you start!
 
YES you can do it! This is difficult, but not impossible!

Order the practice toolbox kit, build it, then in the event you really ARE a screwup, the empennage kit is only twice the cost of a Bose X headset - it's not the end of the world if you have to repeat it and chalk it up to training! :cool:
 
Yukon said:
1) Do I enjoy working with my hands? Doing I enjoy being in the garage?
2) Have I built things in the past (cars, motorcycles, model airplanes)?
3) How do I feel about devoting 3 to 6 years of spare time to a project, while doing very little flying?
4) Will your family tolerate the project?
Click to expand...

1) Oh gods yes. I've always been better with machines and electronics than anything else.
2) Many things. I was one of those annoying kids who took things apart to see how they worked, then put them back together so that they worked *better*.
3) Not so hot on the "very little flying," but I can deal with it.
4) My daughter and brutha-from-anutha-mutha are as excited about this project as me. Of course, neither of them has seen the preview plans...
 
Coinneach said:
1) Oh gods yes. I've always been better with machines and electronics than anything else.
2) Many things. I was one of those annoying kids who took things apart to see how they worked, then put them back together so that they worked *better*.
3) Not so hot on the "very little flying," but I can deal with it.
4) My daughter and brutha-from-anutha-mutha are as excited about this project as me. Of course, neither of them has seen the preview plans...
Click to expand...

Order the tail! You sound like the right man for the job brutha!
 
talk about dejavu

I was just ready to post a message about the grief I have been having trying to read the plans and instructions on the preview plans. It is confusing and frustrating. I am with everyone who had trouble at the start.
 
Yukon said:
Probably helpful for the gentleman to know you've been working on yours for about 6 years. I believe Doug Reeves also took 6 years. I've spent 3 years, and still have a ways to go! This hobby is a heck of a commitment. If you really want to do it, you can..........but lock up your axe before you start!
Click to expand...
Six years down and probably 3 more to go. It IS a commitment but it doesn't have to dominate one's life.
 
Yukon said:
Order the tail! You sound like the right man for the job brutha!
Click to expand...

Don't want to go ordering expensive (and fragile) bits just yet, as I'm moving in October. To Phoenix, AAMOF...

Once the kid and I are settled, I'll have to order the tools and equip the workshop (benches, air compressor, drill press, etc). After that, I can start working. In the meantime, I've got a very reasonable quote for my VS graphic.
 
rwarre said:
I was just ready to post a message about the grief I have been having trying to read the plans and instructions on the preview plans. It is confusing and frustrating. I am with everyone who had trouble at the start.
Click to expand...

Gotta wonder if Van does that on purpose, to weed out people unlikely to commit...
 
The other thing about building your own plane is that it will bring out every possible human emotion possible and then some.
 
Coinneach said:
Don't want to go ordering expensive (and fragile) bits just yet, as I'm moving in October. To Phoenix, AAMOF...

Once the kid and I are settled, I'll have to order the tools and equip the workshop (benches, air compressor, drill press, etc). After that, I can start working. In the meantime, I've got a very reasonable quote for my VS graphic.
Click to expand...

Drop by and we'll drive some rivets!

602-826-0710
 
only took me 7.5 yrears, and very worth it!

one piece done is one less to go, then one day --

Geez I have an airplane!!!
 
Coinneach said:
I have to do this. I promised my kid, my friends, and myself that I would. But... it's a bit overwhelming. And by "a bit," I mean "What in the name of $DEITY have I gotten myself into?!" Jeez, I can't even find a local -9er to give me an intro ride...
Click to expand...

Be warned...the RV fraternity is full of Pied Pipers. They're the ones working on their empennages who lead all the wannabe rats to the water to drown with comments like: "If you can tie your shoelaces you can do it." I place these sort of comments in the same box as: "Anyone can become an astronaut" or "Anyone can become president". Nice sentiments but simply untrue.

Tip: Take absolutely no notice of any advice given regarding how easy it is to build an RV when it is given by some-one who has never fully completed one (and who maybe never will).

Observation 1: Only approximately one-third of builders who buy an RV empennage kit will ever finish the plane. That's roughly a two-thirds failure rate for one reason or another.

Observation 2: Completing the project is not necessarily a win in itself. Some completed projects are simply not up to scratch.

Observation 3: If you do not complete the project you will DEFINITELY end up selling it at a financial loss.

Conclusion: Building an RV (to a reasonable standard) involves a very serious investment in time and money. It also requires considerable patience and perserverence.... and a desire to want to study and learn. If people have a real bug about building I tend to encourage them. For others I tend to recommend they go and buy a flying plane.

Regards Bob Barrow
 
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Coinneach said:
Preview plans arrived yesterday.

o_O

I have to do this. I promised my kid, my friends, and myself that I would. But... it's a bit overwhelming. And by "a bit," I mean "What in the name of $DEITY have I gotten myself into?!" Jeez, I can't even find a local -9er to give me an intro ride...

Next step: reserve a spot at the builder's course @ RIR 6-7 October. If that goes pear-shaped, I'll resign myself to renting spam cans.
Click to expand...
VAF Member Pierre Smith's signature line quote is probably the truest of any you'll find on this subject.

"It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132"


-mike
 
Captain Avgas said:
Be warned...the RV fraternity is full of Pied Pipers. They're the ones working on their empennages who lead all the wannabe rats to the water to drown with comments like: "If you can tie your shoelaces you can do it." I place these sort of comments in the same box as: "Anyone can become an astronaut" or "Anyone can become president". Nice sentiments but simply untrue.

Tip: Take absolutely no notice of any advice given regarding how easy it is to build an RV when it is given by some-one who has never fully completed one (and who maybe never will).

Observation 1: Only approximately one-third of builders who buy an RV empennage kit will ever finish the plane. That's roughly a two-thirds failure rate for one reason or another.

Observation 2: Completing the project is not necessarily a win in itself. Some completed projects are simply not up to scratch.

Observation 3: If you do not complete the project you will DEFINITELY end up selling it at a financial loss.

Conclusion: Building an RV (to a reasonable standard) involves a very serious investment in time and money. It also requires considerable patience and perserverence.... and a desire to want to study and learn. If people have a real bug about building I tend to encourage them. For others I tend to recommend they go and buy a flying plane.

Regards Bob Barrow
Click to expand...


Yep, I get a big kick out of the guys with preview plans giving construction advice. So glad I did this, but I'm going to be real glad when I can park my car in the garage again! Kinda like the old boat owner's saying "The two best days in your life are the day you buy a boat, and the day you sell it!

Don't let anybody kid you........this thing can make a grown man cry!
 
mlw450802 said:
VAF Member Pierre Smith's signature line quote is probably the truest of any you'll find on this subject.

"It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132"


-mike
Click to expand...

Sure, it's will power and perserverance that will get it finished...but it's the skill and craftsmanship (and the personal attitude to the pursuit of excellence) that determines the final quality.

Cheers Bob
 
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As one who is nearing the final stages of his empennage, I still believe that most anyone CAN build this type of airplane as long as they commit to it. If someone gives up, it does not mean that they cannot do it - they simply decided that building an airplane has assumed a lower priority than other things, or otherwise got overwhelmed with the tasks. This is where a good builders support network comes in. Having people out there giving encouragement and telling you that it is ok to screw up and all is important to keep builders motivated.

And, yes, a novice giving advice is sometimes funny, but I think it is helpful for novices to give encouragement, too. I would hate for newcomers to feel too intimidated to post. I know I was a little self consious when I first posted some respones, thinking "what the heck do I know?", but there does come a time when a newby needs to step up and start contributing.
 
Can't do it means....can't do it.

Jeff R said:
If someone gives up, it does not mean that they cannot do it
Click to expand...


I'm sorry, but that's EXACTLY what it means. If you give up, for any reason, then it's prima facie that you cannot do it. How simple is that as a concept? :rolleyes:

Did you say you were working on the empennage.....aaaah yes I remember it well..... the honeymoon period ....when the young lovers are all keen and excited. :p
 
Pretty Harsh Captain...

You know Bob, your signature says that you are "finishing"....not "finished"....

So by your own rules, should folks really being paying much attention to your thoughts on this topic?

Forgive me if you have already completed other aircraft projects that we're not aware of.
 
I've treated the build as the "eating the elephant" method. I'm now finished with the emp and the wings, and I have thoroughly enjoyed every moment of it. Yes I've made mistakes and I've got a box full of aluminum parts to show for it, but that happens to everyone, especially if you have never done anything like this before. After my holidays I'll be rolling the fuse (QB) in and I can't wait. I know that I'm not the most gifted practical person in the world but I do have patience and I think this is essential because to make a good job of it you need lots and lots of patience. I am delighted with the standard of the construction that I have achieved and I have somewhat surprised myself.

At my stage I am very reluctant to give advise to any builder as I consider myself a novice. I have taken lots and lots of tips and advise from this forum and sometimes I wonder what on earth I would have done without it. If in doubt about anything, spend time researching it here, you'll always find a way, people on this forum are only too willing to help.

I understand why people stop building, family commitments, money, time, perhaps they didn?t quite understand the commitment involved when they fell in love with the idea of building (did any of us really understand that?). There are many reasons why people give up and I wouldn?t want to knock anyone who has at least attempted it;

Better to have built and given up than never to have built at all ! ;)


Martin
(RV7 Fuse)
 
Ironflight said:
You know Bob, your signature says that you are "finishing"....not "finished"....
Click to expand...

I have been "finishing" my kit ever since it arrived on Nov 14, 2003! I guess anyone who has started is also finishing. I think it just depends on what stage of "finishing" you are in.

Not everybody can build a plane. But if you have some mechanical ability, lots of COURAGE(you will eventually fly something that you built!), persistence(spelling?),the ability to read directions, the brains to seek outside knowledge and patience you can build one! Some may not be as pretty as others. Mine might not be the prettiest RV-10 out there but it will be the strongest! I could have done a better job on my control surfaces but I didn't. I probably will build new ones down the road but I am not going to let that stop my plane from flying.
 
TSwezey said:
But if you have some mechanical ability, lots of COURAGE(you will eventually fly something that you built!), persistence(spelling?),the ability to read directions, the brains to seek outside knowledge and patience you can build one!
Click to expand...

Mechanical ability: check.
Courage: Well... I drove my car to the alignment shop after I replaced a dropped tie rod by myself, does that count?
Persistence: With things that matter to me, yes.
Ability to read directions: RTFM is my mantra.
Brains to seek outside knowledge: I'm here, right? ;)
Patience: I have three cats and a teenage daughter, and I work in tech support.
 
shiney said:
Better to have built and given up than never to have built at all ! ;)
Click to expand...

Kaylee: "Better to have loved and lost than never loved at all, right?"
Mal: "Try it some time." :mad:
Kaylee: :(

Sorry, the combination of the quote + your username = Firefly geek moment. Carry on.
 
Ironflight said:
So by your own rules, should folks really being paying much attention to your thoughts on this topic?
Click to expand...

Paul, take a look in the VansAirforce Classified section. What you'll find is that incomplete RV projects are coming onto the market at a rate greater than 1 a day (16 in the last 14 days actually). And that's only the VansAirforce sales portal.

Clearly there are many would-be builders who lack the resources, one way or the other, to complete an RV. The "Whoo Hoo I've bought the empennage kit" post more often than not becomes the "Boo Hoo my project is for sale" post.

And I will state without fear of contradiction that EVERY one of those builders who sells an incomplete kit will lose money....and the further they have progressed with the project the more money they will lose (you only get the dollar investment back if you get the plane to flying stage.....AM I WRONG).

But for some reason there are many in the RV fraternity who see it as a virtual duty to actively proselytize for converts among strangers.

Building a plane can be a hugely rewarding experience overall...but it's not for everyone...it's certainly not for the whimsical or the underfunded...and the vast number of partially completed projects now coming onto the market testifies to that very clearly.
 
Captain Avgas said:
And I will state without fear of contradiction that EVERY one of those builders who sells an incomplete kit will lose money....and the further they have progressed with the project the more money they will lose (you only get the dollar investment back if you get the plane to flying stage.....AM I WRONG).
Click to expand...

Cap, every financial transaction I've ever been involved in, I've taken a loss. Maybe others have better business acumen than me, but I never go into a project expecting to come out ahead, especially not something like this, where the major investment is my own time and labor. I fully realize that if I don't complete the project, I'll end up selling what I can for as much as I can, but I don't intend to do this half-fast.
 
Captain Avgas said:
I'm sorry, but that's EXACTLY what it means. If you give up, for any reason, then it's prima facie that you cannot do it. How simple is that as a concept? :rolleyes:

Did you say you were working on the empennage.....aaaah yes I remember it well..... the honeymoon period ....when the young lovers are all keen and excited. :p
Click to expand...

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I think that some people give up who would not have otherwise given up had they recieved some support and encouragement. If a newbie who just got an empennage kit isn't well received in his local EAA chapter, for example, he may give up after he screwed up a few parts because thinks he is too stupid to finish the thing. Had someone in the club actively tried to help him, he might very well have finished.

As for my empennage.....my wing kit gets shipped next week. You are certainly correct that my "honeymoon" period is about to end. When my shop becomes filled with two huge crates of parts, I am sure to feel a bit overwhelmed and intimidated. I have been dreaming of this for some 40 years now, so I don't think I will be detoured (the wife will kill me if I give up now!), but who knows? I do know that if I get some local support when the going gets tough, I will be more likely to finish. But, there is no question that I can build an airplane. None at all. The question is do I have the will to finish? I hope I do and, like I said, I hope there are people to encourage me and to not tell me I don't have what it takes during those times I may begin to question myself.
 
Sure it's going to be tought but...

I could go out tomorrow and buy a flying RV-8. But I want to build one, just how it is.

Funny thing, after we saw the movie Astronaut Farmer, my kids seem to understand .... terrific flick even if it is a little silly.

I get it, it's going to be hard, expensive and complicated, and I might not succeed. But I'll give it a heck of a try and I have plenty of local evangelists nearby to help.

I look at it this way, over 5000 people before me were able to do this, so it can be done. ..That's how I got my Navy Wings a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, persevere, others before have done this...

So, for the record.... WOO HOO my tail kit is in fact on the way. And as a matter of fact it came from someone who chose not to build.
 
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Reasons builders give up

Jeff R said:
I think that some people give up who would not have otherwise given up had they recieved some support and encouragement.
Click to expand...

Jeff, builders give up for ALL SORTS of reasons....but it is improbable that it will be due to lack of support and encouragement in today's internet environment.

A number of guys I know have given up (or sold their plane soon after completion) because of the spiralling cost of building. In the end many find that the money they need to invest in the plane to get it flying becomes completely disproportionate to their total asset base. Having unrealistic budget expectations and limited finances tends to stress out builders and may eventually detract from the joy of building....particularly if they feel they are financially depriving their family in order to pursue their own selfish interest.

Others give it away because months turn into years and they become torn between the time demands of the project and the reasonable time demands of their wife and children.

Some give up to concentrate more fully on their professional careers....or on the development of a private business.

Many stop because they simply run out of enthusiasm after the initial excitement and novelty wears off. After all, we live in an era of instant gratification in the western world...and building an RV is certainly NOT about instant gratification.

A percentage sell their projects because they are decidely uncomfortable with the quality they have produced (too many skeletons in the closet) and they are reluctant to keep shovelling more money into it.

Some builders are forced to relocate and in doing so they lose their momentum and find they can't get going again.

And because many builders are beyond middle age it is inevitable that many give up simply because they have health problems.

These then are just SOME of the REAL reasons why people give up.

At any rate I genuinely hope that both you and I finish our projects.
 
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Wise words indeed

It's so refreshing to hear Bob state it so plainly....and truthfully. This is my second airplane but it wasn't without pitfalls. It contributed to a divorce after a decent 25 year marriage and came very close to trashing my enthusiasm for the project. With a very helpful and understanding friend, coupled with a strong Faith, we soldiered on to completion but it wasn't easy. The determination needed for a project of this magnitude, airplane building, is great indeed.

I guess it begins with a mindset that puts everything in perspective and the priorities correctly aligned. Have I really thought this idea through? Can I be patient and determined enough to see it all the way through despite the possible obstacles? Find joy and satisfaction with each little step completed, like cutting out an instrument panel, learning to drill out a bad rivet, etc. If you can look at this as an opportunity for several years of life changing and enhancing activity instead of seeing the mountain you have to climb, then it can be a blessing.

Regards,
Pierre

ps. The new wife loves to fly anywhere on her day off and readily crawls under it to look at ...."whatsa bellcrank?" :)
 
Captain Avgas said:
At any rate I genuinely hope that both you and I finish our projects.
Click to expand...

Most certainly! All of your points are well taken and need to be considered by all newcomers.
 
Bob's reasons are very truthful and are a reality for many. I suggest many should look for a building partner. It greatly reduces the financial stress and helps keep the project going.
 
TSwezey said:
Bob's reasons are very truthful and are a reality for many. I suggest many should look for a building partner. It greatly reduces the financial stress and helps keep the project going.
Click to expand...

Very good point. I've a flying buddy based at DVT, owns a 1966 Skyhawk. I wonder...
 
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