What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Do you have a compass in your cockpit?

AndyRV7

Well Known Member
If you are a VFR pilot with a glass panel, do you also have a magnetic compass in your plane? It seems not to be a requirement and I never look at mine. Just curious.
 
Yes, it is a requirement in Canada...

No I don't look at mine except to swing it occasionally.

Yes I'm glad it's there. I've not had problems with the EFIS yet, but have had electrical systems and gps signals go on holidays several times in the past.... Yup - back to map and compass!!
 
Yes, I have one. I decided they're not expensive and would be exceedingly handy in the event of a total electrical outage. Given the miniscule cost in light of the total build, for me it was an easy decision. :)
 
Removed mine

I removed my panel mounted compass and put in a very small 3x5 GPS that has a heading display indication. There are apps for my android that could be back-up to that if needed...always have 3 GPS sources with me.
 
Yes it seems like the magnetometer and EFIS cover the regs. I also have an additional moving map in the panel and a handheld GPS in the plane. I couldn't come up with a reason I needed the one on my slider's support post.

When I was renting Cessnas, the analog directional gyro precessed so badly I couldn't live without the magnetic compass. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Oh yeah, and the smartphone makes 4 I guess. Good point by one of you.
 
My DAR wouldn't hear of not having a wet compass...even with two separate panel mounted efis systems with backup batteries for each. If it's driven by electricity it can fail...in his words. Have never even glanced at it...waste of my panel space.
 
I have a vertical card compass mounted on a springy Z-bracket that's riveted to the edge of the glare shield. It's very useful for detecting unusual prop vibrations like the time one of the screws fell out of the composite front spinner bulkhead and was rolling around the inside of the spinner cone.
 
No

I'm not installing one. I have a magnetometer and EFIS. Also at least one smart phone. And I plan to buy a good quality hand held compass to put in the plane in case I loose everything or if I make a off field landing and have to navigate my way somewhere. I will also put in an old Garmin hand held that I dont use anymore in a side pocket.....I dont mind the cost of installing a wet compass but I just dont want it cluttering my vision on the glare shield. I have'nt heard any good things about the affordable vertical card compasses on the market right now either.
 
When updating our panel one of the few instruments that survived is a WWII-vintage 3 1/8" wet compass. They knew how to make them back then - ours is quite accurate and consistent. While I have a battery backed up EFIS with magnetometer, I find myself always cross-checking with the whiskey compass. I guess that fits well with the way my brain works as I have an EFIS and moving map GPS, flanked by round engine gauges and a compass. The "old" technology works well to reinforce the excellent situational awareness provided by the "new" technology.
 
In the real world who cares about magnetic heading? Track is the important thing. Donning the flameproof suit now......
 
OMG this has been hashed out on numerous posts over the years. In the US it is not required if you have another method of magnetic heading indication such as the EFIS. Do what you want though, regulation should not dictate your comfort level.
 
My DAR wouldn't hear of not having a wet compass...even with two separate panel mounted efis systems with backup batteries for each. If it's driven by electricity it can fail...in his words. Have never even glanced at it...waste of my panel space.

Yeah, nothing like making up new requirements and regulations. Shees.

No wet compass, primary EFIS and backup EFIS, and my DAR never even brought up the question.

Probably because he's not re-living the 1940s and actually understands technology.
 
Yes

As per FAR and here for EASA rules one compass stand-alone is needed.

Of course I've one, a wet one, next time a PAI will be my choice.

As DAR here in Italy I've to check that one is mounted during building or in the renewing act of a Permit to Fly.
 
Magnetic Compass

Word of advice to Canadian builders. If you mount a Vertical Power VP-X unit behind your instrument panel, make sure your magnetic compass is far away from it. During my first compass swing, I turned the compass adjustment screws to the end and still couldn't compensate for the error.

Installed a S.I.R. compass on the roll bar brace. It works perfectly. Extremely accurate.
 
49clipper

Yes, have a compass, and in my 41+ years of flying, I have never had an electrical device (over time) that did not fail at some point, normally when I needed it the most, Except for possibly a turn coordinator. I am looking for an EFIS (primarily because i need some attitude awareness and they are cool), but 'I will not' give up my steam gauge AS, alt, and compass on the install.
Jim AP/IA/CFI/RV-6
JMHO
 
A properly designed glass-panel system should be single-fault tolerant within the designed operating environment. Redundant components (such as EFISes, comm radios, busses, etc.), backup batteries (either on a buss or component level, depending on design), etc.

It's probably not feasible in a light aircraft to go all the way to full cross-strapping components, but there's no reason it can't be (with perhaps carefully chosen exceptions like the pitot/static system) as reliable or more so than vacuum gauges and mechanical devices.
 
Look down. From Maine to the Rockies, the roads run N-S-E-W. Built in compass. I haven't flown with a compass for almost 17 years now.
 
ATC still cares quite a bit.

Actually I've found that not to be true. When you get a heading (except for a charted departure or arrival) they are guessing at what heading they really want you to fly. They will then make corrections as needed for you to fly the ground track they want.
 
Yes ATC does care

At least for me one occasion. I was being vectored in class C airspace on a very windy day at 3,000 ft. I had been messing with my GRT EFIS settings(before the flight) and forgot to switch it back to HDG. I was given a heading to follow, needles to say the controller called me to be sure I was on assigned heading since I was off 20 degrees from everyone else. Didn't take me long to figure out the EFIS was in TRK mode.

Gary
 
ATC still cares quite a bit.

Actually I've found that not to be true. When you get a heading (except for a charted departure or arrival) they are guessing at what heading they really want you to fly. They will then make corrections as needed for you to fly the ground track they want.

Yeah, you're right flyinga, I did a crappy job of writing what I meant. They could care less about the literal heading of your airplane - the track is what matters for convergence. They do care that you fly an assigned heading is what I should have said. I agree, if everyone had the means of precisely flying track, it would be the way to go.
 
I was told by the MDRA (outfit that inspects homebuilts in
Canada) that there are changes to the canadian regs coming whereby you can skip having a compass provided you can show that you have 30 min of operation of your compass equivalent in the event of a failure of the primary electrical system. He said they would be in place by the time I was finished. Perhaps he was just trying to say that I didn't have a hope of being finished in the next ten yrs?:p
 
I might add that I do lots of xcountry flying and I use the ipad, but before that I used a map and still didn't really use the compass much. Losing heading info is not exactly a dire emergency. That DAR mentioned earlier is basically demanding a higher level of reliability for heading information (2 efis and a whisky compass) than he is for the engine which makes no sense at all. Failure analysis drives reliabilty requirements based on the probability of the failure AND the failure's consequences. Losing a compass is not terribly serious, unless you were already lost!
 
Only once in my entire flying "career" have I ever used a whisky compass to help me get home was very early after I'd got my PPASEL, I was flying a rented C172 with no nav gear (vor, loran or gps) onboard... I'd flown down to near the DFW metromess and was on my way home when I looked down and noticed the roads didn't look right and suddenly I felt disoriented to direction. The vacuum driven DG had drifted a lot so I just used the whisky compass to reset the DG and fly north until I could see the Red River then I knew all I had to do was look to the west along the river and there was home... so yes, a whisky compass still can have value in navigation. Now I practically have the entire N Texas landscape memorized so it doesn't matter but to a green newbie it can be a good, practical instrument to have at you disposal.
 
Last edited:
Yes, it is a requirement in Canada...
CAR 605.14:
(d) a magnetic compass or a magnetic direction indicator that operates independently of the aircraft electrical generating system;
Note that by the wording of the regulations, a Dynon D10A would meet this requirement, as it has an internal backup battery and does operate independent of the electrical generating system.

That being said, MD-RA will not allow an Amateur-Built Aircraft to pass their final inspection unless it has a whiskey or card compass, as per an internal policy at the MD-RA... They require an independent *mechanical* compass, which is not what the regs state.
 
That DAR mentioned earlier is basically demanding a higher level of reliability for heading information (2 efis and a whisky compass) than he is for the engine...

He's actually demanding compliance to a requirement which doesn't exist...he's making up his own.

For the life of me I do not understand the seemingly arbitrary "rules" people keep running into during inspections. The FAR is quite clearly stated...91.205 says "magnetic direction indicator". Let's see...a magnetometer senses the direction, and it's indicated on the screen. It's magnetic, and it indicates direction.

Requiring an additional "wet compass" is going beyond the FARs.
 
In AUS, if you are VFR and Experimental or LSA, then an EFIS will suffice.
This is a recent-ish change so sounds similar to the impending Canadian changes.
My understanding is that this came about because we were importing LSA's that didn't come with a mechanical compass, but obviously the original certifying country (USA) thought this was OK.

No battery backup requirement for Day VFR, but 90min standby requirement for NVFR.

Ive not looked at the whiskey compass much at all in 5y - but I probably wouldn't pull it out even if I could now.
 
Compass

I believe a WHISKEY compass is still required equipment for a VFR airplane. A direction finder NOT reliant upon power.......
Someone insert the FAR's here..........
I would not fly without one. I cross check it all the time against the GPS for reference. I work around electronics all day long in my Paper Mill. I am amazed at the issues that pop up from electrons not flowing in the right direction.
When the lights go out......and fly long enough they will, a compass could save your bacon.
Ask John Travolta about his totally glass panel in his Gulfstream going out at night.....backups too.....!!! Pucker factor and then some.
 
Last edited:
I believe a WHISKEY compass is still required equipment for a VFR airplane. A direction finder NOT reliant upon power.......
Someone insert the FAR's here..........

No, it is NOT. I quoted the FAR for you above. It says "magnetic direction indicator". That's all. It doesn't say anything about power, or no power, or anything else.

I would not fly without one. I cross check it all the time against the GPS for reference. I work around electronics all day long in my Paper Mill. I am amazed at the issues that pop up from electrons not flowing in the right direction.

That would be a choice you can make. But it doesn't mean they're required.
 
No, it is NOT. I quoted the FAR for you above. It says "magnetic direction indicator". That's all. It doesn't say anything about power, or no power, or anything else.
That would be a choice you can make. But it doesn't mean they're required.

This is correct in the USA.
 
Compass

I love it when an inspector tells you all of these great rules.
On my last airplane, I even had to fill in the card for magnetic variation for the whiskey compass that I was told was required for VFR flight.
I guess I will put that one under an MSU rule:
Making S--t up. Sometimes I wonder how these guys can site these rules.
My last experience with the FEDs was at a fly in. I was going to fly the sky divers for the show. It was all personal donation. There was no money involved at all with the flight and I had dropped these guys many times before over the airport. The day of the flight, I was told I could not drop the divers since I was not commercially rated. We told him there was not any compensation for me or the owner of the plane. He told us that experience I got from flying these guys was the compensation.......:eek:
Since my friend who owned the plane was recently hired by the FAA, he was on his probation. He did not want to make any waves so we let it go. He ended up flying the plane.
My question is this. Does anyone ever sue these guys for falsifying the rules. My friend said that he was told by his supervisors that the FAA will back you up as long as you are citing the FAR's. IF you go outside the regs, you could be held personally liable if there is any damages resulting from your instructions.
 
Yep!

Mel, do the latest EAB Op Lims still specify that flight instruments are not required per 91.205 for day VFR? I poked around on the FAA's site and kept running into outdated links.

Part 91.205 only applies to EAB for night and/or IFR operations by Operating Limitations.
 
He's actually demanding compliance to a requirement which doesn't exist...he's making up his own.

For the life of me I do not understand the seemingly arbitrary "rules" people keep running into during inspections. The FAR is quite clearly stated...91.205 says "magnetic direction indicator". Let's see...a magnetometer senses the direction, and it's indicated on the screen. It's magnetic, and it indicates direction.

Requiring an additional "wet compass" is going beyond the FARs.

SBLACK is from Canada where different regs apply.

Skylor
RV-8
 
SBLACK is from Canada where different regs apply.

Skylor
RV-8

Yes, I know, but we were talking about a DAR in Colorado who required a wet compass. My other response was to a poster in Washington.

I know other countries have different regs, I'm only talking about US rules.
 
Mel, do the latest EAB Op Lims still specify that flight instruments are not required per 91.205 for day VFR? I poked around on the FAA's site and kept running into outdated links.

Part 91.205 only applies to EAB for night and/or IFR operations by Operating Limitations.

Thank you. I knew that in the past many years this was true but wanted to make sure this is still the case with the latest version of the op lims. I have a new project in the works--they didn't have much in the way of instruments in 1918. :)
 
Back
Top