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The Red Pitts Keeps Staring At Me

S

snoop9erdog

Well Known Member
I recently aquired a hangar in my little town. They don't come up very often, and so I jumped on the opportunity to move my 9A project into a hangar that has a neighbor. My neighbor is a Hot looking little Red Pitts that is currently resting in the corner. I believe it's an S1-C. It has a Lyco 290G 125horse engine and it looks like the old builder was very meticulous and did a great job. I don't know any details of the Pitts as far as engine time, logs, AD's complied with, etc yada yada. I did hear from the airport manager that it was damaged on a rumway mishap and then rebuilt by the owner.

My agreement was that I could move into the hangar as long as the Pitts could keeps its home until the owners wife sells it. You see, the fellow who built it recently died of bone cancer and his widow is in Hawaii for who knows how long.

Anyhow, I've enviosioning myself in that sporty little thing. I must admit, the thought is intimidating for this 300 hour non-tailwheel, no hair on the chest, pilot. I know I could fly her, but landing it would be another story. I know I could do it after spending some time with Mr. Budd Davisson in Scottsdale. See www.airbud.com. Have I gone insane! She sure is purty!

Anybody out there have some time in a Pitts and would care to share their experience?

Ed
N542A Reserved
 
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Distractions

Quick, refocus on your project. There are a lot of distractions out there just looking for a chance to slow the progress of your real project. I know this for a fact. When you are finished with that "9", you will be a proud traveler.
 
Zero time in a Pitts but it is on this years 'to do' list.

You know you must have a airplane to fly while you are building. What better airplane to sharpen your skills than a Pitts...of course after thorough training.

....and it's a tail dragger, come over to the dark side!
 
steveKs. said:
You know you must have a airplane to fly while you are building. What better airplane to sharpen your skills than a Pitts...of course after thorough training.
Click to expand...

I know this was intended in good humor, but I'll have to add my voice to the other side (from watching a number of builders in my EAA chapter over the years): If you don't have a plane while building your odds of finishing are higher.

But I agree a pitts does seem like a sweet plane.
 
Can you learn how to fly it? Yes, but it will take a lot of work in the S2 with a real competent instructor. How much money do you have to spend? You would do much better in a Citabria or such. It is far more docile and will teach you to be a better tailwheel pilot because you have to really work at it in a gusty wind. get 100hrs Citabria time and trasitioning to the Pitts is a breeze. Also how big of a guy are you? The old Pitts S1C is very tight and a heavy pilot can put it aft CG with low fuel. They are great aerobatic airplanes and a LOT of fun once you get comfortable in it. I have over 600 hrs in S2A, S2B, S2c, Christen Eagle and Acroduster II.
 
I have a buddy that has had a nice red Pitts standing on it's nose without an engine in the corner of his hangar for years. I asked him for it several times (this was years before my RV was even a dream - was flying my trusty big-engined AA1B at the time), but he never wanted to let it go. Finally, one time, he said I could put it together and fly it if I wanted....but then I got busy with other things, and never got back to it.

The one time I got serious about it though, I asked a buddy named "Hoot" who happened to be running the astronaut office at the time what he thought about the original Pitts. "Great airplane!" he said..."and the most difficult airplane I have ever landed...." Ahh....OK, thanks Hoot! I decided to pass....(he'd flown about 180 differnt types of airplanes BTW)...

Now I know it's just another airplane, and huge number of pilots have flown them. I am pretty sure I'd enjoy the heck out of one if I had the time....but way back then, with a lot less experience in my logbook, and not a lot of money to pay for a real, thorough checkout, it just wasn't a good idea for me....

Still want to try one one day though! :)

<end of story>
 
Pitts.

Depends on how straight the original builder got the landing gear axels. If they're true; landings will be as docile as a Citabria with a lot more control authority. If not; (which a lot of them were not during the early days) it can be a handfull.

I've flown 3 different S1's and all three were great. At the time I had about 10 hours in a Super Cub, 100 or so in a champ and about 10 in a Stitttts Playboy (darn BS remover won't let me give the name of Ray S**** who designed the Playboy airplane which Van started this whole series of aircraft around). S1's are different than the S2's, but the S2 would be good training for you.

Years ago, I read an article by Richard Collins (Flying Magazine) about the Pitts S1. He said that flying the Pitts was like having a Cannon Plug (direct connection) plugged into your Cerebral Cortex! He was right!!!
 
Red Pitts vs. RV

Snoop: I feel I may be somehow able to help. I bought a beautiful Pitts S2A that had belonged to two dear friends before. That was over one and one-half years ago. To make it easy to understand: Becoming involved with a Pitts is akin to having an affair with that irresistible female (or male, depending on who's reading this).. that just can't wait to hear your voice on the phone for another fling. You know it's way riskier than the average 172 or sunday school teacher, and you may swear you will not touch her again. Yet you go back for just one more fling. One more hammerhead; one more barrel roll, one more Immelman, one more....
And so it goes. When you are in her wings, she reaches deep into your aviator's soul and makes you rediscover things long ago forgotten inside of metal meat containers. The senses are awakened, and vital juices flow again. The airplane becomes an extension of your will as you master the intricacies of aerobatic flight and the foreign language of the Aresti chart. When the interlude is over and on initial, you peel back the canopy and let the cool wind tame down your fever, as the wind in the wires communicates the wing's intimacy with flight. Landing becomes a testament of your consummate skill. Wherever you do land, she propels you into an immediate rock star status. People stare, ladies swoon; big corporate-jet types cannot hold a candle to you, the aviator, as you casually smile back, carrying your 'chute. You lift thrilled kids over the coaming so they can peer into the cockpit, dark and inviting, smelling of leather, wood, hot oil, and manhood.
My recommendation to you is to not buy the Pitts, as it will distract you from your original goal of building your RV. There are many personal factors to be considered, and mine was the fact the previous owner of my Pitts was a WWII P-51 combat pilot, who stopped flying his (my) Pitts at age 83. Cancer took him not long afterward. His spirit is now much a part of this very special airplane, and I can feel it passing through to me through the stick and rudders; especially during aerobatic flight... we laugh whenever the craft flies through its own wake turbulence after a perfect loop.
I know there are other Pitts drivers that are also part of this wonderful RV family, and I'm sure they will weigh in with their input. In closing, I can olly say that we are a most privileged group of people, and that regardless of the aircraft we fly, the ability to build and fly aircraft such as ours is a chapter in mankind's history that may not repeat itself. Enjoy every aspect of it.
Respectfully,
Tom Navar
RV-8 QB
Temporarily on hold
 
English Major

Dang it Tom:

I didn't know that you were an English Major too. I have never read a better description of the lure that the Pitts puts on you.

Your description is poetry!

Ps Get to work on the 8
 
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Ed,

I am a bit of a lurker here, but as a former Pitts owner I had to respond!

Here's my story: I saved up and bought a beautiful Pitts S-1S on my 22nd birthday with about 100 hrs in my logbook. 40 hrs for the private, 40 for the instrument, and a tailwheel checkout in a Stinson 108-3 with a couple hours in a Citabria.

Went to Bud Davisson's place down in AZ with the intent of a 10 hr. checkout. As the checkout was going to cost 20% of what I paid for my Pitts, I was really tight on money and told him I could afford the 10 hours max.

First day: Things went pretty well, and in the debrief I (we?) were confident that 10 hrs. would be a no-brainer.

Second day: Bud's comment in the de-brief was something to the effect of- "Are you sure you can't afford a couple more hours... I'd be willing to work something out with you if need be". No, Bud wasn't trying to rip me off. Yes, day two was that bad- it seemed as though I'd need a wee bit more than my budgeted total. I was bummed out.

The next few hours went better and better, and by hour 10 I was doing an acceptable job. I think I logged a total of about 11 hours down there, with something like 120 landings. Bud is absolutely the best instructor I've ever had, and not only did he make me proficient enough to land the Pitts, but I learned a lot about flying in general. It wasn't cheap but it was worth every penny.

The first solo flight of my S-1S was both scary and exhilarating, and the first landing I made was probably the best I've ever had in it. I went on to fly it for another 2.5 years and about 150 hrs (much of that spent in the pattern) and never had a problem. In fact, touch and go's were one of my favorite things and I'd sometimes barely leave the pattern on a flight.

I sold the Pitts to finance grad school, a house, getting married, etc., but I would love to own another. I convinced myself I needed a two seater, or something to fly in the winter, etc., but there's nothing that'll beat the open cockpit on a warm summer day doing rolls over the countryside.

Buy it!

Pat
 
Me too!

Before starting the RV, I was SO CLOSE... SO CLOSE... to buying a S-1S. Actually, my friend owned it and we were going to trade his Pitts for my Citabria. I got all the way through pre-buy on the Pitts before a little voice inside me made me shy away from the deal. It was devine intervention because a month after I walked away my buddy discovered some cracks in the case and engine had to be rebuilt. I dodged that very expensive bullet!

Here she is... the one that got away... sigh... ;)
pic86.jpg


Oh yea, I think Yakdriver and Tom Navar give some great advice.
 
I've enjoyed the comments immensely

Guys and Gals,

Thanks for the comments! Tom, have you ever considered writing an aviation Novel? You express yourself very well and I enjoyed the comments from someone who currently owns a Pitts. I think you hit the nail right on the head when you said that there are many variables and personal decisions when it comes to a decision as significant as this.

For me, that is the case. I will keep plugging away at the 9 and then have a fantastic airplane to take my wife in. She's not at all apprehensive to fly with me (or she fakes it well). While I believe I could master the Pitts with specialized training with Bud Davisson, there are never any guarantees (i botched his awesome web sit, www.airbum.com). At my age, and with 5 kids (yes, 5 kids....I've been a prolific guy in our 14 years of marriage), I have way more to lose than to gain. I'm content with the 9A and will quite possibly teach one of my kids to fly in it.

But.......that sweet curvature of aircraft keeps looking my way. Maybe someday.......ater the kids are grown and I get to my post mid life crisis.
I would still like to get instruction from Budd though. Just as the previuos poster commented, I've heard that nobody will teach you how realy fly a plane better than Davisson. Maybe a little upset training is in order?

Thanks Guys.....there aren't many better than the airplane types.

Ed
 
Red Pitts


Well, I've been trying to load the picture of the Pitts, but I'm afraid I come from another century....
Tom Navar
 
The real scoop

I think it is interesting, and Tom, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Tom bought the Pitts just for the engine. But as long as the RV-8 isn't flying yet, why not fly the Pitts. Then the Pitts caught him. There are lots of really good airplanes, and the Pitts, no doubt, is one. Maybe it is good enough that it will keep its engine and Tom will have to find another one for the RV.
 
Oh Me - sigh - here we go again

kevinh said:
I know this was intended in good humor, but I'll have to add my voice to the other side (from watching a number of builders in my EAA chapter over the years): If you don't have a plane while building your odds of finishing are higher.

But I agree a pitts does seem like a sweet plane.
Click to expand...

I had an airplane, I had a 4 hour commute to work every day, I had to work odd hours as dictated by the mission and none of this affected my building motivation. If you are not committed to the project I can see the distraction could be a problem. To me a Pitts has zero appeal and would not be a distraction at all.

Bob Axsom
 
To me a Pitts has zero appeal and would not be a distraction at all.
Click to expand...

I might have been able to say that until I read Tom Navar's post. His way with words made me want to go out and strap one on! Nice bit of writing Tom! :D
 
Beauty and distractions are in the eye of the beholder

tomnavarpitts.jpg


The beauty of these forums is the great number of opinions and ideas. The RV-8 flame is by no means extinguished, and I'm always grateful for the opportunity to build and fly...

TN
 
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Too much distraction

Here's a pic of my beautiful Pitts; G-FCUK, I sold it to build my RV7. The Pitts is a great aeroplane and a real head turner, everyone loves them, if only just to look at. I'm building a 7 becuase I want to do some serious flying into Europe and believe me, being 6ft 1, after an hour or so in the Pitts you really want to be on the ground to get the feeling back into you limbs (Mr. Pitts must have been a small guy!). Flying the Pitts is easy, landing is not what the scaremongers would have you believe, you just have to be on top of it more than you might think. First take off for me was the most hair raising experience I have ever had and caught me out big time (more right rudder than I ever expected!). So, buy the Pitts and you will love it, but don't expect to get anywhere fast on your RV project unless you have real discipline. :)

pittswn0.jpg
 
Attention deficit disorder

Here's what did it to me for a while. Conventional gear skills help. Wife says to keep 'em all.
dsc0235pc8.jpg
 
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Pitts are the planes that make real pilots hearts pound. Honest, exciting, etc.

I never stop enjoying looking at them, although this last photo makes me wonder if the CAA is as strict as the FAA with registration numbers :rolleyes:
 
Can't spell to save my lfei!

I know, but to all it's friends it was known as GO F!!!! :)

In actual fact, it's a variation on a theme. The CAA are very strickt about "words" FCUK is a UK clothing company and it became a very popular advertising campaign, so I hijacked it but didn't get any sponsorship!
 
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Go for it

I am always surprised how many pilots will buy a Pitts and then, with no time in type and often little TW experience, try to fly it by themselves! I think that's part of where the aircraft got its bad reputation.

I own an S-2B and have never seen the plane do anything it wasn't told to do. Having said that, your chances for success in flying the airplane will be a lot better if you start with a Citabria or Decathlon. Once you're comfortable landing that, start flying it from the back seat (with an instructor up front, of course). This will introduce you to "blind" landings and move you a bit aft of the CG, just like it'll be in the Pitts. Once you can do that, it's time to start flying an S-2 with a good CFI.

What I like to do is just have people do some airwork and possibly aerobatics to get a feel for the plane. In the pattern, I do the first 2 or 3 landings because I just want them to watch and see what it is supposed to look like. By the end of the first few lessons, they've at least reached the point where they know they can do it.

If your nosewheel landing skills are up to par, the odds of success flying the Pitts will be much higher. When I say up to par, I just mean that you always have the plane pointed in the same direction that it's traveling, and any drift has been eliminated. Obviously in a nosewheel airplane you can get away without doing those things, and some pilots fly that way for many years.

Don't listen to those who tell you the Pitts is too hard to fly. Countless pilots have learned to fly 'em, but you have to be smart about how you jump into it or your experience will almost assuredly be a negative one. One final thought: if you plan to fly aerobatics, be sure to get extensive spin training with a qualified instructor, including inverted, flat, accelerated, and crossover spin modes. I can't overstate the importance of that training.

Here's my aircraft:
030708-pitts_and_honda.jpg

n1191_over_el_toro.jpg
 
Everyone NEEDS two airplanes. If one is down for maintaince, condition inspection/annual what are you to do??
My wife did inform me that it is illegal to own three at one time...I had no idea!
 
Tom, I took it upon myself to correct one of you picture links and resized the image in the process. Hope you don't mind. Sweet Pitts!
 
Thanks

Thank you, Brad. If you make it to LOA this year, I would love to show it to you, as well as my RV8 project. I'm right down the hill from 5T6, at TA-50.
Tom Navar
 
Three airplanes = divorce... at least for the people I know. But let me tell you, the trade of wife for the '48 Temco Swift was an upgrade for one of my friends....

BTW, when you have more than one airplane all that does is make sure that they are ALL broken at the same time.
 
Pitts mmmm.

I would recommend anyone who is thinking of flying a Pitts to go for it. There are several good Pitts instructors scattered around the country. The performance in a Pitts is amazing, and if you?re looking at an S1 the price is usually quite cheap, considering the performance. Even with good instruction, you?ll have some interesting landings. It?s not what the plane will do, but it just reacts very quickly to your inputs. I?ve let my guard down several times, usually after a ?long? cross country, and I?ve been rewarded for it by getting a good view of the side of the runway. But with gobs of power on tap, just hit the go lever, and she?ll leap back into the air. Takeoffs and landings in a Pitts are incredible. Also the inverted spins in S1?s are absolutely amazing. More fun than a guy should be allowed to have. If anyone is interested, I?m selling my Pitts to finance an engine for my Giles.

Aaron

listing_images.php
 
Ruined for life?

I have heard a Pitts will ruin you for life. All other planes are too dull after that. Comments from the Pitts owners?
 
Yes, the Pitts will indeed ruin you for life. After all, it is a well-known aphorism that landing a Pitts is a mixture between an orgasm and a near-death experience.
 
I sold my RV 4 to buy a Pitts S-1S that was built by Curtis Pitts. It weighed 762 pounds empty and had 200 hp. First take off was insane. Good training is a must I flew 5 hrs with Johnny White in my dads s-2. I think I had 140 hrs tt 100 of that tailwheel, cub, rv, citabria. It all helped me along the way. I now have a Christen eagle and its as comfortable as a rv and better visibility than a Pitts much faster too! If you want the Pitts buy it, it will make you a much better pilot, it will really tune you into stick and rudder flying. The good thing about the s-1 is its so small that you can stuff into a hangar with your RV.
 
I got 5 hours in a Pitts S-2C. It was my "adventure vacation" a couple of years ago.

I did Sean Tucker's unusual attitude course (E-PATS?). What amazed me was how completely docile the Pitts seemed once it was throttled back in the pattern; right up until you round out at the bottom and the runway disappears!

I wholeheartedly recommend everyone should go buy some aerobatic dual instruction in something like a Pitts. It really puts stalls, spins and unusual attitudes into perspective for you if you've only flown spam cans.

One of these days I will own Pitts S-2C, or something like it!
 
Ironflight said:
I have a buddy that has had a nice red Pitts standing on it's nose without an engine in the corner of his hangar for years. I asked him for it several times (this was years before my RV was even a dream - was flying my trusty big-engined AA1B at the time), but he never wanted to let it go. Finally, one time, he said I could put it together and fly it if I wanted....but then I got busy with other things, and never got back to it.

The one time I got serious about it though, I asked a buddy named "Hoot" who happened to be running the astronaut office at the time what he thought about the original Pitts. "Great airplane!" he said..."and the most difficult airplane I have ever landed...." Ahh....OK, thanks Hoot! I decided to pass....(he'd flown about 180 differnt types of airplanes BTW)...

Now I know it's just another airplane, and huge number of pilots have flown them. I am pretty sure I'd enjoy the heck out of one if I had the time....but way back then, with a lot less experience in my logbook, and not a lot of money to pay for a real, thorough checkout, it just wasn't a good idea for me....

Still want to try one one day though! :)

<end of story>
Click to expand...
ounq5j.jpg


I had a Pitts S2B and it was not that bad. Hoot was here in Chattanooga at an air show and I offered him a ride in exchange for a ride in the Mig 21. I got my 21 ride with him.....now that was a ride... Or should I say a "HOOT"
 
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The pitts is fun for about 50 hrs, then I got tired of it. You couldn't go anywhere and it was expensive to fly. It only held 29 gl and burned 15/hr.
However, yours would be less with smaller engine. The 30 minutes of acro was fun, but the 8 hrs of headache that followed was not. I kept making myself sick doing that stuff and that was 10 yrs ago when I was a young pup. Hate to think what it would do to me now.
 
This may be somewhat sacrilegious but I was watching a video of the Pitts S1C & S2C in LSA clothing. They couldn't use the name Pitts so they called them 'Lil Rascal 1 and 2'. They are in development by Renegade Aircraft. A little bit larger cockpit and carbon fiber wings.

I'm not an upside down kind of person but boy they sure looked fun and sexy. That would make an incredible RV-16.... :D

Bob
 
There are at least two ways to calculate the correct number of airplanes to own:
One is N+1, where N is the current number of airplanes.
The other is S-1, where S is the number that would cause the spouse to leave.
 
A good friend of mine, who got me into RVs, just traded his RV-4 for a 200hp Christen Eagle II so it looks like one of these days soon I'll get some Eagle time myself. We've also got two bright red Pitts S1s on the field as well, one of the Pitts owners is the respected authority on the airport WRT these biplanes. The first thing he says about landing them is "You know you're over the runway when you can't see it anymore". :eek: :D
 
Post 32

Now thats funny. I fly Pitts's and it's true, they're much harder to drive than they are to fly. I'm just lucky I get to fly them off a grass strip most of the time.
 
AOA

An ex Navy carrier pilot friend of mine, has a Christen Eagle on our airport and installed a vane-type AOA and loves it....just like the A-6's he flew.

Best,
 
I don't know. I didn't make it. It was filmed for the older gentleman, by his grandson. I didn't even know it was being filmed.
 
The Pitts :)

Great video Sandifer. I think Tom Navar indeed described the experience very well. It all brings back a longing to have a Pitts again myself.

I had an S 1 and loved the crisp acro a plane like that is capable of. I miss it. My RV 6 is no Pitts. If I could just resist the competition style acro I could probably appreciate ny RV's acro more and clean the belly less. :)

As many have said, wow life is sure good (great actually) that we here get to experience such thrills with our planes.
 


This was my #4 plane I did most of the test flying on it and had 298 Hrs. TT. in it over several years . I Loved it and still miss it !
But I REALLY LIKE MY RV-8! :D :D :D :D
 
It's a ways off, but I plan to own a light, simple S-1C one of these days. I only hope that my rudder skills don't degrade so much by then that I can't fly it. With the Hiperbipe in the hangar, at least I got to keep the skills honed after too much time in the RV. And if it had been a while in the RV, the HB sure let me know my feet were lazy!
 
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