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B&C Alternator PIREP

BlndRvtr

Well Known Member
I’m considering getting a belt driven B&C 60A LX 60 alternator. I’m looking for user reports on reliability and installation experience. This would be connected to their LRD3 voltage regulator.

George
 
Installed B&C 60 amp alternator during the build with the LRD3 voltage regulator. 3 years of flying and the voltage regulator died on the way to OSH. B&C stood behind it even though it was past warranty period. They helped troubleshoot the issue while at OSH and once we determined it was the voltage regulator, they FedExed one to OSH for me. No charge for any of this. Easy swap out of the VR and have not had any issues for the last 2 years. I would definitely use their products. I also have their SD8 alternator as a backup and zero issues with it. Wiring is easy and instructions are clear.
 
Solid

I've had a B&C alternator on my 7A for over 10 years and one on my other homebuilt for more than 20 years. They both have been rock solid. I highly recommend recommend them. Put it in and you can simply stop worrying about it!
 
I’m considering getting a belt driven B&C 60A LX 60 alternator. I’m looking for user reports on reliability and installation experience. This would be connected to their LRD3 voltage regulator.

George

This is the thread you need to read. The great alternator poll.

https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=138805

Only a minuscule 2% of B&C users reported a fault in the first 250 hours. By contrast, a staggering 30% of Plane Power users reported a fault in the first 250 hours.
 
With over 4000 hours behind B&C alternators on my own airplanes, I've only ever had a failure of one of the older-style regulators (LR3B). IT was no big deal as we just activated the standby B&C and continued on the journey, for over 8 hours and 2 days.

We see lots of Plane Power failure with less than 500 hours, and usually replace them with B&C.

Vic
 
Catastrophic failure of an automotive style, switched to B&C 60A belt driven 4 years ago and almost 500 hours ago. Rock solid ever since.
 
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I’m considering getting a belt driven B&C 60A LX 60 alternator. I’m looking for user reports on reliability and installation experience. This would be connected to their LRD3 voltage regulator.

George

I had a PlanePower alternator. It failed (one phase) en route to OSH. At OSH, Plane Power admitted it was a known manufacturing issue where the stator windings shifted inside the alternator. They told me they don't repair their alternators, and they offered zero consideration for a replacement.

I switched to B&C. They service what they sell.
 
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I’m not sure I understand your query. Did you look at the poll results?


There's plenty of confirmation bias in the non-scientific poll.

1) The response rate is a very small portion of the membership who were polled.
2) The entire membership polled cannot possibly account for the total sales of B&C and/or PP alternators
3) What made 250 hours the yard stick?
4) B&C vs PP is right up there on the list with Nose or Tail wheel, Tipper or Slider, Garmin or Dynon, etc.

Now then, an actual determination could be made by getting data from the manufacturers. But that would also be incomplete because if there was a fail and it was replaced by an owner who chose the another maker the data point is lost.

Note: I'm a confessed nose wheel, tipper, O-320, fixed prop, Plane Power flier
 
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There's plenty of confirmation bias in the non-scientific poll.

1) The response rate is a very small portion of the membership who were polled.
2) The entire membership polled cannot possibly account for the total sales of B&C and/or PP alternators
3) What made 250 hours the yard stick?
4) B&C vs PP is right up there on the list with Nose or Tail wheel, Tipper or Slider, Garmin or Dynon, etc.

Now then, an actual determination could be made by getting data from the manufacturers. But that would also be incomplete because if there was a fail and it was replaced by an owner who chose the another maker the data point is lost.

Note: I'm a confessed nose wheel, tipper, O-320, fixed prop, Plane Power flier

1. The response simply needs to be representative. I plotted the life numbers (weibull), it was representative.
2. See #1, not needed
3. Granted, what number would you see to be better? We can use it for a new survey.
4. No, reliability is a quantifiable parameter, the others are opinions.

I also have PP, and the conclusion of that long and winding thread was that PP had a manufacturing problem that skewed the Weibull. It was bifurcated with a poor record for early hour failures. The B&C admittedly was low on samples, but that was a good indication there were no early hour failures, and several had 800-900 hours. No PP lived that long and the weibull showed it was unlikely.

Good reliability data is hard to come by, even for a manufacturer. Electrical (in my experience) components can have a 50% false failure. Still good but replaced anyway.

Even if we tried, customer cooperation in obtaining the failure rate and cause information on VAF would be a pain. Why? People seldom read past the first paragraph.:eek:
 
PP/Hartzell support

I had a PlanePower alternator. It failed (one phase) en route to OSH. At OSH, Plane Power admitted it was a known manufacturing issue where the stator windings shifted inside the alternator. They told me they don't repair their alternators, and they offered zero consideration for a replacement. ...
Perhaps this was before they were acquired by Hartzell? I had the opposite experience - they went way way out of their way to make things right for me, and it turns out there was not even a problem with the alternator.
 
1. The response simply needs to be representative. I plotted the life numbers (weibull), it was representative.
2. See #1, not needed
3. Granted, what number would you see to be better? We can use it for a new survey.
4. No, reliability is a quantifiable parameter, the others are opinions.


So, you're stating that the responses resulted in a sample size (my points 1 and 2) of sufficient merit? You and I would be a sample size of 2 with 100% success for PP, therefore it is 100% reliable and the best B&C can hope for is a tie for 100%. Ain't statistics grand?

Also to 4) "Reliability" as measured this way is undeterminable, mainly because of the sample size issue.
 
Unless I’m missing something, the sample size of the poll was 333 for the two companies. Not 1 or 2. In aerospace having that many data points to create a Reliability Weibull is Pretty rare. We typically make reliability decisions on a handful of points.

My 2003 B&C alternator with 750 hours never had an issue. My 2010 Planepower Failed at 150 hours in 2012 on my second plane. If you want to ignore the reliability data (which I see no reason to invalidate) and base your decision on marketing brochures, go for it.
 
Unless I’m missing something, the sample size of the poll was 333 for the two companies. Not 1 or 2. In aerospace having that many data points to create a Reliability Weibull is Pretty rare. We typically make reliability decisions on a handful of points.


323 data points of the how many VAF members (2020 says 1746 contributed) is an 18% response rate, and I know there are countless non-contributors and contribution waived members which reduce the response rate even further.

There is no way a poll of any web forum will account for an accurate sample of anything.

Your data points of your two planes are anecdotal, as is my experience with one plane.

No brochures needed.
 
One thing that is NOT always known re PP failures, is the reason for the failure. If the VR failed, then do we count VR failures when it's a B&C as alternator failures?

In my case I replaced my PP alternator but it never stopped making reliable voltage, and in fact still works today. It did occasionally trip the field breaker, but I believe that was a problem with the crowbar OV device, not the voltage producing part of the alternator.

So I wonder how many PP "failures" were a problem with the VR, or the OV protection device?

-Marc
 
The numbers plus the anecdotal evidence paint a compelling picture IMHO.

I suspect if the poll asked how many people had 1000 trouble free hours on each the numbers would be even more stark.

I believe it comes down to price. I don’t know what the difference is these days. When I built my 7 over 15y ago now the B&C was probably double the price of the alternative but it was already clear back then it was superior. It’s still going now. Never missed a beat.

2x B&Cs on my RV10. Easiest decision of the entire build.
 
The numbers plus the anecdotal evidence paint a compelling picture IMHO.

I suspect if the poll asked how many people had 1000 trouble free hours on each the numbers would be even more stark.

I believe it comes down to price. I don’t know what the difference is these days. When I built my 7 over 15y ago now the B&C was probably double the price of the alternative but it was already clear back then it was superior.

I agree completely. Builders continued to buy Plane Power alternators because of the cheap price despite mounting evidence that they were very unreliable. B&C run every individual alternator on a test rig and check it for balance before it leaves the factory. As with everything else in life you get what you pay for.
 
I agree completely. Builders continued to buy Plane Power alternators because of the cheap price despite mounting evidence that they were very unreliable. B&C run every individual alternator on a test rig and check it for balance before it leaves the factory. As with everything else in life you get what you pay for.
Yep. Builders being penny wise and dollar foolish. I WAS one of those builders!
 
Yep. Builders being penny wise and dollar foolish. I WAS one of those builders!

Agreed. My automotive based alternator was fine until it wasn’t. Having almost everything electrical in the plane sent off for repair, plane stuck at an airport 5 hour drive from home, not worth taking that chance again. For any price.

Only B&C for me. Even if its only a “little more reliable” than others, that’s enough reason.
 
I'm on my THIRD PlanePower 60-amp alternator in 800 hours. This one is only a year old and failed on a cross-country flight last week resulting in a divert to a VFR airfield. That is not acceptable.
When I built my airplane, I chose PlanePower for the simplicity of having an internal voltage regulator.... one less component to worry about.

Enough....
I'll be giving the B&C 60-amp alternator a shot on my next round....

To be fair, I'm also using an EarthX battery in my airplane which results in huge recharging cycle loads after engine start. I'm thinking that the PlanePower voltage regulator just can't handle that.
I'll see how B&C does. Stay tuned for a PIREP....
 
Recommend by many mechs

The B&C is recommended by every A&P I personally know. We have it on our 8A. Only 10 hours on it but so far 👍
 
I'm on my THIRD PlanePower 60-amp alternator in 800 hours. This one is only a year old and failed on a cross-country flight last week resulting in a divert to a VFR airfield. That is not acceptable.
When I built my airplane, I chose PlanePower for the simplicity of having an internal voltage regulator.... one less component to worry about.

Enough....
I'll be giving the B&C 60-amp alternator a shot on my next round....

To be fair, I'm also using an EarthX battery in my airplane which results in huge recharging cycle loads after engine start. I'm thinking that the PlanePower voltage regulator just can't handle that.
I'll see how B&C does. Stay tuned for a PIREP....

Just out of curiosity, what were the failure modes and root causes?
 
7 years and very happy with my B&C 60 amp.
No issues and I use a old style Ford regulator.
 
No previous Alt. experience and not flying yet

I followed recommendations from my mecanic and engine builder to install B&C as primary and backup alternators. Both were not fans of internal regulation for one. FWIW, I also have their starter and it' bigger than the PP. (will have to modify the snorkel because of that)


To be fair, I'm also using an EarthX battery in my airplane


Note that with the B&C external voltage regulator, it's possible to adjust the voltage to better match the EarthX battery needs. They recommend a 13.9-14.6 volt output and I will adjust accordingly if needed...


For those using VPX and 2 voltage regulators, you will have to install 2 "primary" LR3D-14 VRs. Don't install a SB1B-14 backup VR.


Sorry for the drift...
 
My pp alt quit on a XC from VVS to SGJ this past Nov, as soon as i hit the coast.
I was lucky that my battery was sized correctly and I had com with center for the remainder of the trip. The overvoltage condition took out my Trio Pro pilot AP and that was a $200 repair.. Chuck at Trio turned it around in 7 days. A local shop fixed the PP, diodes and regulator was gone.
 
I can't speak for all builders, but I suspect many, like me, bought the PP alternator because it's included in the Van's FWF kit:

At least that's where I believe I got mine.

The point is taken. However it doesn’t take the astute RV builder terribly long to realise that many third party products supplied in Vans kits are el cheapo. By the time I got to the FWF kit I had decided to drop many of their standard components including, but not limited to, the rubber engine mounts, the oil cooler, and the alternator.
 
.... snip...

By the time I got to the FWF kit I had decided to drop many of their standard components including, but not limited to, the rubber engine mounts, the oil cooler, and the alternator.

These are the three standard components I dropped off as well when I ordered the FWF kit. 5K+ flying hours later no regrets. :)
 
Mitigation

I’ll admit to being swayed by this conversation, especially since I installed an electrically dependent (but with battery backup) ignition (replacing the D3000) last condition inspection. Now I’m just noodling 60a or 40a as adequate. Looks like fun for this condition inspection (flyled conversion from Whelen and now B&C from PP).

I live in the world of ISO 26262 in my work life....functional safety starts with a vehicle-level hazard analysis....is 200 hours on a PP a hazard?
 
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As usual, you guys sure come thru on requests.

Thanks for all the PIREPS, looks like B&C is the safe way to go.

May Santa leave you all just what you want under the hangar Christmas tree.

George
 
Size PP vs B&C?

Can someone who has done the conversion PP to B&C confirm it fits or does not add additional risk for cowl contact? The websites are not helpful. Thanks in advance.
 
Can someone who has done the conversion PP to B&C confirm it fits or does not add additional risk for cowl contact? The websites are not helpful. Thanks in advance.

You will probably have to use the B&C mount instead of the PP mount - they are different - but yes they fit in the same physical space. I swapped them on my 9A with IO360 and Sam James cowl with no fit-up issues. The B&C website has pictures of their mounts to pick the right one, but I still had questions and called them up. The guy I talked to looked at a few installation photos I had of my engine from the original build and said "Oh yeah, that's gonna be such-and-such, we can ship it today."
 
Pad mount

I just installed by B&C pad mount alt on my engine that is about to go on the firewall for first time, remember if going pad mount alternator, it turns slower than a belt drive alternator so output current is lower. This is not a problem for me with low current systems.
 
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