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G3X or Skyview?

Rrhsch

Rrhsch

Active Member
:confused:G3X or Skyview? Two great choices, but I need help.

I am a low hour sport pilot (<100) completing the finish kit on my RV12. The mission is cross county trips with my wife to visit friends and family with a little exploration in between. I will not be a multi plane builder, so I need to do this one right. I have decided on a two screen system, autopilot, ADS-B. I plan on keeping the plane past the 2020 ADS-B requirement date and I live near class D, C and B airspace.

Which one of these great systems would serve me best and why? Features and benefits only please. I value the experience and wisdom found in this forum.
 
The short version is that you will LOVE whichever of the 2 you choose. Both are fantastic systems. You will likely never say, with either, "I wish I had gone with the other."

For 2020, either system will need a certified Waas position source for ads-b out, and neither system has one now. There are still 5 years for options to come to the market or for requirements to change. Either system will likely cost the same to get you to that point when the time comes.
 
Skyview - proven history of FREE software updates that have provided massive functionality improvements. FREE monthly FAA data updates. I have single-screen SV with ADSB and love it. (Former IFR Bonanza owner.) Also there is a large number of RV12s with Skyview and the Dynon support forum is staffed by Dynon techs who answer detailed questions quickly.

Garmin is nice equipment. But the ONLY reason that "inexpensive" Garmin hardware exists is because of companies like Dynon who have supported the experimental market for many, many years. In the South we say, "You dance with who brung ya."

And on the Skyview you can add AOA visual and audible for $12 in parts after you complete the plane.
 
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I have an equal dollar investment in both Garmin GTN gear etc and the sky view.

The excellent service you get from Dynon is what tips me their way, that and their engine monitor is far better than the Garmin. Those are the two big ones.

There are some nice things in the G3X too, so you would be happy with either.

Toss of coin perhaps? :D
 
Jesse said:
... For 2020, either system will need a certified Waas position source for ads-b out, and neither system has one now. ...
Click to expand...

Van's G3X order form says "... with built in WAAS receiver ..." and the Dynon site says the SV-GPS-250 is "WAAS enabled. Is the operative word in what you said "certified"? I guess my question is whether it's worth adding the ADS-B option to either system if they don't satisfy the ADS-B requirement.
 
tomkk said:
Van's G3X order form says "... with built in WAAS receiver ..." and the Dynon site says the SV-GPS-250 is "WAAS enabled. Is the operative word in what you said "certified"? I guess my question is whether it's worth adding the ADS-B option to either system if they don't satisfy the ADS-B requirement.
Click to expand...

Yes, the operative word is "certified", but "Waas" is operative as well. Certified non-Waas will not do it.

Adding ads-b is for your benefit at this time, giving you weather and traffic. The 2020 requirement is the out portion, which will give everybody better traffic info, but won't do anything for you except make you legal in 2020.
 
Rrhsch said:
:confused:G3X or Skyview? Two great choices, but I need help.

I am a low hour sport pilot (<100) completing the finish kit on my RV12. The mission is cross county trips with my wife to visit friends and family with a little exploration in between. I will not be a multi plane builder, so I need to do this one right. I have decided on a two screen system, autopilot, ADS-B. I plan on keeping the plane past the 2020 ADS-B requirement date and I live near class D, C and B airspace.

Which one of these great systems would serve me best and why? Features and benefits only please. I value the experience and wisdom found in this forum.
Click to expand...


No offense to you or anyone else that comes along and ask this same question (happens at least 100 times a year) and sure I fell in the same boat and asked the same question in the same manner many years ago....

The bottom line is that this is an impossible question to ask on a forum like this and any response you get is going to be more or less worthless.

The reality is that most people are biased and will go to the grave defending whatever they invested in. Many (probably the majority of) people that respond to these type threads have no real first hand experience with anything but what they have purchased and use.

You will see references made to free firmware updates and constant feature improvements/additions: (Both manufacturers you asked about have always done this)

Statements will be made on how good the support is: (Both manufacturers you asked about have pristine customer service records when compared against the rest of the world these days. It is amazing what we have grown to expect in experimental avionics as far as support goes. Both of these companies go well above and beyond the norm!)

People will make statements about underdogs, who was here first, market share, which are truly innovative, etc. (Both the companies you mention almost never truly fit the perception of most folks that take them at face value or the popular opinion without digging into the real facts.)

One of the manufacturers you mentioned is almost always portrayed as being more expensive than the other but the reality is that this can go either way depending on configuration. When you truly compare apples to apples and you get real world out the door pricing instead of relying on popular opinions and marketing hype, most of the time you will find that both are quite competitive price wise.

One could go on and on for days but hopefully you get the idea.

The real differences come down to stuff that most people don't understand or give much thought to. Stein, Ironflight and others have written novels on those topics and I highly suggest you dig into the archives and educate yourself on the best practice for selecting your avionics suite and don't fall for the trap of allowing an open forum to influence your decisions.
 
ADSB Out clarification

Just to clarify, ADSB-out will give you better traffic right now. I currently have just ADSB-In and there are large areas of the country where I do not get any ADSB traffic.

However, when I fly in loose formation with my brother who's plane is equipped with ADSB-Out, I get a lot more traffic information - because his plane is "lighting up" the ground stations. I'll be installing an Out solution in my aircraft very soon.
 
The reality is that most people are biased and will go to the grave defending whatever they invested in. Many (probably the majority of) people that respond to these type threads have no real first hand experience with anything but what they have purchased and use.
One of the manufacturers you mentioned is almost always portrayed as being more expensive than the other but the reality is that this can go either way depending on configuration. When you truly compare apples to apples and you get real world out the door pricing instead of relying on popular opinions and marketing hype, most of the time you will find that both are quite competitive price wise.

Stein, Ironflight and others have written novels on those topics and I highly suggest you dig into the archives and educate yourself on the best practice for selecting your avionics suite and don't fall for the trap of allowing an open forum to influence your decisions.
Click to expand...

Best advice so far!
 
Rick_A said:
Just to clarify, ADSB-out will give you better traffic right now. I currently have just ADSB-In and there are large areas of the country where I do not get any ADSB traffic.

However, when I fly in loose formation with my brother who's plane is equipped with ADSB-Out, I get a lot more traffic information - because his plane is "lighting up" the ground stations. I'll be installing an Out solution in my aircraft very soon.
Click to expand...

As a side note, the Dynon will do ads-b out now with the built-in GPS. It just doesn't meet the 2020 requirements because it's not certified. Again, this is independent of the Dynon ads-b box. I can't speak to that issue on the Garmin.
 
It is my understanding that any WAAS GPS will work right now with ADS-
B out; and traffic and weather will be sent to the aircraft. But starting in 2020, the ground station will know if the GPS WAAS is certified or not and will only send traffic and weather to those that are certified.
 
Mich48041 said:
It is my understanding that any WAAS GPS will work right now with ADS-
B out; and traffic and weather will be sent to the aircraft. But starting in 2020, the ground station will know if the GPS WAAS is certified or not and will only send traffic and weather to those that are certified.
Click to expand...

Actually, the FAA will be able to see if the WAAS GPS is certified, which will determine if you are legal or not. They send traffic and weather to everybody in the area, not just to specific planes (that's the "broadcast" part of the acronym). They may only send out the traffic signal, same as today, if there is a plane in the area with valid ADS-B out.
 
OK, let me rephrase that.
It is my understanding that any WAAS GPS will work right now with ADS-
B out; and traffic and weather will be broadcast from a ground station. But starting in 2020, the ground station will know if a GPS WAAS is certified or not and will only broadcast traffic and weather when an ADS-B out signal is received from an aircraft that has a certified WAAS GPS. If several aircraft are within range of an ADS-B ground station, but none of them are transmitting a valid ADS-B out signal with certified WAAS data, then the ground station will not broadcast anything. Is that correct?
 
Mich48041 said:
OK, let me rephrase that.
It is my understanding that any WAAS GPS will work right now with ADS-
B out; and traffic and weather will be broadcast from a ground station. But starting in 2020, the ground station will know if a GPS WAAS is certified or not and will only broadcast traffic and weather when an ADS-B out signal is received from an aircraft that has a certified WAAS GPS. If several aircraft are within range of an ADS-B ground station, but none of them are transmitting a valid ADS-B out signal with certified WAAS data, then the ground station will not broadcast anything. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

Trying to guess what the FAA will be doing in 2020 would just be a WAG. The ADS-B system is currently being built and operated mostly with contractors and it seems that nobody fully understands how the whole thing works and there are still many bugs and issues to iron out.

Disclaimer: Keeping everything high level here...much more detail than this required to fully articulate it all!

Yes, currently everyone with the proper receiver can get FIS-B weather...nothing else required.

Yes, currently the FAA is allowing non-certified position source data when used with a properly configured ADS-B out solution to wake up ground stations.

Yes, in 2020 the current rules say that if you fly in airspace that requires a xponder, you will be required to be ADS-B out equipped and that your position source must be certified.

Unknown is whether or not the FAA will continue to allow non certified position sources to wake up ground stations when 2020 gets here.
 
Brantel said:
Trying to guess what the FAA will be doing in 2020 would just be a WAG. The ADS-B system is currently being built and operated mostly with contractors and it seems that nobody fully understands how the whole thing works and there are still many bugs and issues to iron out.

Disclaimer: Keeping everything high level here...much more detail than this required to fully articulate it all!

Yes, currently everyone with the proper receiver can get FIS-B weather...nothing else required.

Yes, currently the FAA is allowing non-certified position source data when used with a properly configured ADS-B out solution to wake up ground stations.

Yes, in 2020 the current rules say that if you fly in airspace that requires a xponder, you will be required to be ADS-B out equipped and that your position source must be certified.

Unknown is whether or not the FAA will continue to allow non certified position sources to wake up ground stations when 2020 gets here.
Click to expand...

Correct, and if they do keep the mandate as written, what, if anything, will they do if the non-certified position source is sent, which would not be legal. They will know where you are and they will know who you are (or at least who the owner of the plane is), so will you get a letter in the mail?
 
ADSB is such a fascinating topic :p . I think the FAA is really over thinking this. It's obvious that the technology is here today to make ADSB work pefectly as Dynon has shown us. FAA needs to look at this issue in a segmented approach. If they want certified equipment that costs thousands of dollars for planes that carry passengers and cargo that travel 300, 400, 500 MPH in the sky, then great have them install "commercial certified ADSB". All of them have certified GPS anyway so it won't matter to them that ADSB must be linked in to use their GPS. But for those of us in general aviation that get excited when we reach 200knots :D do we really need to be in the same category? Nope. Will our "non-certified ADSB out " provide important information to ATC? Yup. I know it's a bit more complicated than that but I just don't see why FAA has to make it so complex.
 
"Yes, currently the FAA is allowing non-certified position source data when used with a properly configured ADS-B out solution to wake up ground stations."

This is true but it depends on the specific hardware you are using. For example, I have a WAAS certified GNS 480 and GTX 330. However, the 480 is not an ADSB certified position source. There is suppose to be a software update in the works make the 480 ADSB certified. However, until that software upgrade is released, I'm putting off upgrading my 330 to a 330ES.

There are other ES transponders that will accept a non-certified position source - which is (I believe) what Jesse was referring to.

BTW. Just to get back to the original topic .... I will install a dual screen G3X with ADS-B in the RV-12 that I am building.
 
This has been a great discussion on ADS-B. I probably should have split this up into three threads, G3X, Skyview and ADS-B. I was really hoping to contrast what features you use on each control, how you use them, and why you believe they are important. My experience with glass is on a 1940 J3, looking out the window with a hand held radio duct taped to the wall. My CFI was a foot taller than me so my only instrument was the one sitting on my seat.

An example of information that may be useful in this thread is “Do both controls give me a visual indication on the map of how far I can travel before I reach my fuel reserve?” How would you use this feature? You might not feel this is an important feature or it might not be available on one or both controls. There are a good number, on this forum, that are seasoned pilots with real world experience on these controls and have used and researched their capabilities. I want to hear from you.
 
Rrhsch said:
An example of information that may be useful in this thread is ?Do both controls give me a visual indication on the map of how far I can travel before I reach my fuel reserve?? How would you use this feature? You might not feel this is an important feature or it might not be available on one or both controls. There are a good number, on this forum, that are seasoned pilots with real world experience on these controls and have used and researched their capabilities. I want to hear from you.
Click to expand...


The problem is that the feature list has become so long with both manufacturers that it is hard to put into words what it is like flying behind these state of the art boxes.

Take a look at the user manuals and marketing info available and you will see that both have a comparable feature set. Sure some things are implemented a little differently as far as userability goes but you will get the idea.

I highly suggest you take the time to at least skim thru the available documentation and then come back here with specific questions on certain features you may have additional questions about.

For instance, the question you posted above can be answered on page 89 & 90 of the G3X Touch user manual and page 7-12 for Skyview (I think).

The bottom line is that you owe it to yourself to put some effort into the research. Asking others to do that for you may not produce the best results.
 
Rrhsch said:
There are a good number, on this forum, that are seasoned pilots with real world experience on these controls and have used and researched their capabilities. I want to hear from you.
Click to expand...

In general (there are a couple of minor exceptions), if one of the "Big 4" has a useful software feature, the others have it, or will have it (or something equally useful in a similar fashion) very quickly. If pilots find a feature useful they have no choice but to incorporate it to stay competitive.

Search the archives for the ANY threads on choosing an EFIS, and you'll find that the common consensus of those of us that fly them all is that you need to get out and find them to try to see which works best with your brain.
 
Rrhsch said:
:confused:G3X or Skyview? Two great choices, but I need help.

I am a low hour sport pilot (<100) completing the finish kit on my RV12. The mission is cross county trips with my wife to visit friends and family with a little exploration in between. I will not be a multi plane builder, so I need to do this one right. I have decided on a two screen system, autopilot, ADS-B. I plan on keeping the plane past the 2020 ADS-B requirement date and I live near class D, C and B airspace.

Which one of these great systems would serve me best and why? Features and benefits only please. I value the experience and wisdom found in this forum.
Click to expand...

I have a new SLSA with a single screen Skyview Touch and it's excellent.

When deciding on the RV-12 I did a demo flight with Mitch Lock in MD. He has 2 RV-12s, and the SLSA has most of the new mods including dual Garmin G3X Touch. I was very impressed with the units and liked the second screen, which Mitch had dedicated to VFR sectionals that day.

The only reason I'd have the second screen is for independent back-up redundancy and the luxury of a screen devoted to sectionals.
The dual option for Skyview wasn't available when I bought, and the G3X Touch was still being talked about.

Vans just announced that the dual Garmin shares the same ADHRS so, unlikely as it might be, an ADHRS failure would mean losing both screens.

I think both systems are exceptionally good. The Dynon support is really good too.
The Skyview Touch offers the standard Skyview with all the buttons/bezzles as well as the touch screen option, which I use almost exclusively.
The Garmin Touch, as I recall, has a few basic buttons (that you would use a lot) but which means going through a menu to get where you want. Just a difference in philosophy.

Mitch and I discussed the clarity of the screens on both units and couldn't decide which was best.

For me I'm super happy with the Skyview. I've thought a lot about installing the second screen. If I owned flight school or had a 'co-pilot' who flew with me often I'd probably do it. As it is I fly mostly on my own and so I'm looking at an iPad mini with Foreflight for planning, iFly GPS for iPad app for flying, and a Bad Elf as GPS source. This is purely for 'back-up'.

I don't think either is a bad choice and I'm sure you 'll never have buyer's remorse.

For me the Skyview more than meets my mission of a lot of info in one package, reliability, good support, and ease of use. Day VFR Light Sport doesn't require a lot of the options available. A second screen for me is a luxury and actually the iPad makes more practical sense, though I do like the idea of having it fitted in the panel without mounts and wires?.but hey?

Give Mitch Lock a call..he's super informative and will be glad to help I'm sure.
 
Actually, with a single ADAHRS total failure, you would not lose the "screens," you would lose attitude, altitude, VSI, and airspeed readouts. You would still have GPS values for those and the moving map and engine monitoring.

The iPhone i carry with Foreflight is also an independent backup. I don't always take the iPad.
 
One of the best threads I have seen in my 4 years of VAF practice (which include building N124BX and flying it for 1 year). All this reminded me that my time for donation is up and well worth it. Thank you all and especially Doug Reeves who made it possible. :cool:
 
Bill_H said:
Actually, with a single ADAHRS total failure, you would not lose the "screens," you would lose attitude, altitude, VSI, and airspeed readouts. You would still have GPS values for those and the moving map and engine monitoring.

The iPhone i carry with Foreflight is also an independent backup. I don't always take the iPad.
Click to expand...

Bill,

Thanks for that, I didn't know that about the ADHRS.

Also, I've thought about using an iPhone with Foreflight. Must trade in my flip-phone!:D
 
Top Cat said:
Bill,

Also, I've thought about using an iPhone with Foreflight. Must trade in my flip-phone!:D
Click to expand...

No.. don't do it, there are very few of us left that don't walk around with our head up our *ss staring at our phone :eek:
 
Ironflight said:
In general (there are a couple of minor exceptions), if one of the "Big 4" has a useful software feature, the others have it, or will have it (or something equally useful in a similar fashion) very quickly. If pilots find a feature useful they have no choice but to incorporate it to stay competitive.

Search the archives for the ANY threads on choosing an EFIS, and you'll find that the common consensus of those of us that fly them all is that you need to get out and find them to try to see which works best with your brain.
Click to expand...

I will make a well-thought-out point again that is worth consideration. There is a lot of value in seeing which system works with your brain the best, but being new to glass in general, your brain will be trained to the system you choose, IMHO, more than the system will fit with your brain.

On the issue of fuel range, I doubt either has an actual map ring that shows your range, but I know the Dynon has a range, fuel remaining at waypoint, mpg, etc on the fuel computer page. One feature I really like about the Dynon fuel computer is that if you add fuel, it will notice a difference between your totalizer and your floats when you power it up and will automatically have you on the menu for updating your totalizer, with a box showing your totalizer and your floats and allowing you to "match" the totalizer to the floats.

As was mentioned, if someone went through all of the features available, it would take a book about a hundred pages long (the users manual for each system). If you want to know if a system has a certain feature, list the features you would like and one or many of us will describe how that feature is provided in the unit we fly.

I personally have a lot of time behind Dynon, AFS and GRT, and a lot of time behind certified Garmin (both the IFR GPS units and the G1000/G900X). I don't yet have any time to speak of behind a G3X or G3X Touch. I was a little disappointed at the lack of buttons on the G3X touch, and it was already mentioned that there is a deeper menu structure because of the fewer buttons. In this respect, I think the AFS takes the cake big time with their new 5500/5600/5800 units because of the 3 knobs and 18 buttons. The menus are extremely shallow. The Dynon, with 2 joysticks and 8 buttons is great, especially because you can punch in a Squawk without touching the screen, very quickly, but the menus are deeper. Dynon sells this feature as "Touch when you want, turbulence when you don't," which is a very important feature, IMHO. When you're bouncing around, having to touch the screen, especially something towards the middle of a 10" screen, would be very hard to get correct the first time with any kind of consistency. I have tried on the Dynon, and it's not easy.

On the ADS-B, I know for a fact that they Dynon Mode-S transponder with the Skyview GPS as position source works to activate the ground stations. It's not certified, but it gets the job done. I love the way the traffic is displayed, both in the moving map and in the Synthetic Vision.
 
Jesse said:
On the issue of fuel range, I doubt either has an actual map ring that shows your range, but I know the Dynon has a range, fuel remaining at waypoint, mpg, etc on the fuel computer page.
Click to expand...

G3X does show a fuel ring on the map. One circle with VFR reserves and one for empty.

I agree with everyone else, try them. Go to OSH or Sun n Fun and play. It was several years ago and I really wanted AFS, but found the price too much more than Skyview or G3x.(prices are now much closer). Ended up going with the g3X. Played with all 3 touch systems at OSH, and found I liked the g3x touch way better than the others, it just seemed much more intuitive, but that is probably because I am now used to the non-touch G3x
 
G3X

Here's another factor to put in your equation. Look at the follow on costs - for example the yearly subsciption cost for the database as well as repair cost when the unit needs to visit the Mfg.
 
It would be great to have the unknown costs like average repair cost and frequency of repairs. These are secrets that are not shared by manufactures. The latest software release for Skyview seem to address a lot of bugs. I was surprised by the fix for overheating. I had not heard that this was a problem. I don't know if the G3X has had the same issues. Database cost are SV at $100 and G3X at $150 for what seems to be equivalent US packages. When I look at garmin other databases, For the feature set that I will be purchasing the initial cost will be within $400.

I am still undecided. I have read both manufactures installation and operation manuals multiple times. I did take the $25 SV class. Each system has its advantages. I am planning a trip to stein Air. I have not had any real exposure to the G3X.

The weather here in WI is just a little cold, but if some one in SE WI or N IL would be willing to take me up to show me the G3X touch, I would be eager to go. The same goes for the Skyview.
 
I would highly recommend if you can wait to make the short trip to Osh this year to see em both in action at the show and in the planes parked out on the ramp.

You will get to talk face to face with the people that actually designed the units and created the firmware that run on them. You will also be able to find many pilots more than welcome to talk about each system's pros and cons.

It just does not get any better than that!
 
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Brantel said:
I would highly recommend if you can wait to make the short trip to Osh this year to see em both in action at the show and in the planes parked out on the ramp.

You will get to talk face to face with the people that actually designed the units and created the firmware that run on them. You will also be able to find many pilots more than welcome to talk about each systems pros and cons.

It just does not get any better than that!
Click to expand...

The problem with that is you'll leave each booth deciding that either one is the perfect solution! :)

Cheers,
Stein
 
Rrhsch said:
The latest software release for Skyview seem to address a lot of bugs. I was surprised by the fix for overheating. I had not heard that this was a problem.
Click to expand...

I assume you are referring to this in the change log:

Added: Alerts that let the pilot know if the CPU within SkyView's display is overheating due to failure of SkyView's thermal dissipation features.

Just because we added a feature doesn't mean we had cases of that happening. It's just continual improvement and making the product more robust. Note this is a warning if it happens to overheat, not a fix for it overheating, and so far nobody has reported getting this message. We mainly put it in so that if someone calls us with a problem we can determine if it was due to overheating (which is almost always a lack of cool air behind the panel).

Please don't hold our detailed change reports against us! Some EFIS systems hardly publish change logs, and others just say "General improvements to system operation." Knowing that we control our software well enough to publish exactly what we changed should give you confidence, not cause worry.
 
Full disclosure is always a good thing. It's what isn't disclosed that worrys me. I know there isnt perfect software or equipment. I consider Dynon and Garmin very reputable companies with very good products. This is my dilemma. If I thougt otherwise I wouldn't be writing or taking the time and expense to research. In the end it has to be what is wright for me. I hope to be flying before Oshkosh or very close. :D
 
+1 for detailed change logs! I like to know what was touched in each release so I can help beta-test. Dynon products are solid! <g>
 
I know that SV and G3X ADS-B out are not currently 2020 compliant. The Garmin GDL 39R receive both 978MHz and 1090MHz for air to air and TIS-B traffic per their manual. It appears that the Skyview receives and broadcast only on 978MHz. Please let me know if I am wrong.

Is it possible to miss traffic that is broadcasting on 1090 MHz when flying with Skyview out of reach of a ground station? Does Skyview also receive air to air and from equipped ground vehicles? Is receiving one frequency vs two even an issue?
 
Yes, it is technically possible to miss traffic when out of range of a ground station with a single band receiver.

However, to miss that traffic, you need to:

A) Be out of range of a ground station, which is really rare when in flight now that the ground stations are built out.
B) That traffic must be equipped with a Mode-S transponder with ADS-B OUT (ES). Mode A/C/S transponders will be hidden no matter what if there is no ground station.

Given that, it's really rare for the frequency to matter and cause a plane to not show that could have otherwise been detected.

Cockpit displays don't generally show ground vehicles as it's just clutter, and almost no ground vehicles are equipped except at huge airports.
 
Here is a photo of the fuel range rings on G3X Touch for reference.

fuelrangerings.png


Regarding dual frequency ADS-B In. The GDL-39/39R is a dual frequency 978 Mhz/1090 Mhz ADS-B traffic and weather receiver. It can receive ADS-B Out directly from ALL aircraft transmitting ADS-B Out on both frequencies, in addition to receiving TIS-B, ADS-R, and FIS-B from the ground station.

Some aircraft transmit ADS-B Out on 978 Mhz and some transmit on 1090 Mhz. When you get down low at pattern altitude coming in to land and lose direct line-of-sight to a ground station, you can still see both types of transmitting traffic in the pattern and approaching the airport with a GDL-39/39R because of the dual frequency receive capability.

The following images demonstrate the gap in coverage that shows up at lower altitudes. Notice there are many small airports that are outside the coverage area.

ADSBcoverage1500.png


ADSBcoverage.png


Thanks,
Brian
 
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Rrhsch said:
It would be great to have the unknown costs like average repair cost and frequency of repairs.
Click to expand...

The Garmin flat rate repair fees for out of warranty products are publicly available and can be found on our website here.

Thanks,
Brian
 
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