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MEL, Let's talk about oil filters.......

G

gasman

Well Known Member
Friend
Quote from Mel... "P.S. I have run my Lycoming 1000 hrs using an automotive oil filter and we all know that we can't do that!
__________________
Mel Asberry..DAR
A&P/EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Specializing in Amateur-Built and Light-Sport Aircraft
Dallas area
RV-6 Flying since 1993"
.........................................................................................

It sure would be nice to just go get a NAPA GOLD FILTER on Sunday when you need it.

So what is SO SPECIAL about an aircraft oil filter? ..............:rolleyes:
 
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Re: about oil filters

I have a O-360-A4K(converted to a -A4M) which has a Casper Labs oil filter adapter installed. The guys at Casper Labs recommended I use the K&N 1002 filter because it is built for K&N by Champion Aircraft Filter, with no changes in materials except the K&N label. I bought a 12 pack case on Ebay for $8 each plus shipping. Dan.
 
Gasman:

What Champion number filter is recommended for your engine / adapter?
What is the replacement NAPA part number are you using?

I have been using Kelly filters as they are a few bucks cheaper than Champion. I have friends that use Tempest filters as they are a few bucks cheaper than Kelly.

I remember seeing a photo of an automotive filter that was used on an aircraft that exploded. The auto filter could not handle the pressure during start-up in cold weather.
 
RV6_flyer said:
...I remember seeing a photo of an automotive filter that was used on an aircraft that exploded. The auto filter could not handle the pressure during start-up in cold weather.
Click to expand...
The same happened to a friend of mine with a C-85 on a Dragonfly.
 
I use the Napa Gold 1068. It will bypass at full flow between 8-11psi. If the bypass valve is operating properly, there's virtually no possibility of cold oil causing the filter to fail.

I'd have to go back and look in my logs, but I'm guessing I've been using this type of filter in the RV for about 600 hours.
 
One question

I know everyone would like to save a buck or two but why try to skimp here on something that most people change 2-3 times a year?

You've got a machine worth more than your and your wife's car, an engine that cost 25 grand, your life is at stake if failure occurs.

20 bucks a year.......

Why?
 
Webb said:
I know everyone would like to save a buck or two but why try to skimp here on something that most people change 2-3 times a year?

You've got a machine worth more than your and your wife's car, an engine that cost 25 grand, your life is at stake if failure occurs.

20 bucks a year.......

Why?
Click to expand...

Why? Well, if all we're saving a few bucks on were ONLY the oil filter, I'd agree with you. But I've heard your same question said on so many other things you have to look at the grand total. Auto fuel vs. Avgas, 406 Mhz ELT vs. 121.5 Mhz ELT, Hooker vs. Crow harnesses, etc, etc. Why not use something that's equivelent in performance that's less expensive?

That being said, I have no idea if an auto filter would work (I'm using the Kelly Aerospace filter). But, if someone could provide adequate evidence that they're the same with no risk, I would switch.

P.S. - 20 bucks x 3 times a year is $60, not $20.
 
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Math

Sonny

An auto filter is 6 bucks. An aircraft filter is about 16 bucks. Twice a year times 10 bucks is 20. 30 bucks for 3 changes. I don't know anyone that would pay 26 bucks for an oil filter if they could help it.

Point taken about savings the nickels and dimes. As with saving $$, do it prudently and most likely you'll save more in the long run.

All this aside.....Is there really a difference?
 
Ahh! Savings of $20...I thought you meant that's how much you spent a year on oil filters. My misunderstanding. :cool:
 
I'm not sure of specific differences, but I know that the metal can on the Champion aviation filters is thicker metal than the automotive style. Whether or not that matters, I'm not sure. I may measure them next time. It seems that the weight of an aircraft filter is noticeably more than that of an automotive one.

It would not seem, just because an automotive filter has a bypass spring or valve inside, that it is adequate for an aircraft engine. It indeed may be, but... Are the oil pump flow rates the same? Certainly the oil viscosity in an airplane engine is much higher, so can the bypass valve handle increased viscosity and perhaps increased flow?

Anecdotal story: I had a generic brand filter blow off from a car some decades ago, the thing stretched out like pop cans do when frozen. I thought it was a crummy filter, so I put a name brand one on. Blew off just the same as the first generic one! It was due to a stuck relief valve in the engine's oil pump.

The issue may be about margins - clearly many are running the auto filters, maybe with a lot of margin. Personally, I'd need to know the design margins before doing it.
 
Noob question here, as I don't have a complete airplane yet!

When I tore down my runout engine I noticed the champion filter was safetywired to prevent it from turning. It had a place to attach safetywire, but I've never seen that on an automotive filter. Is this an issue?
 
When I tore down my runout engine I noticed the champion filter was safetywired to prevent it from turning. It had a place to attach safetywire, but I've never seen that on an automotive filter. Is this an issue?
Click to expand...

Is it an issue? Well only if your filter unscrews loose a little and you run out of oil over the rocky's at low level :eek:

You can do what we do on our race engines and clamp on a worm clamp and lockwire it....... or just buy the right filter for the job!

DB
 
Why debate? Plenty of filter cutters in toolboxes with this crowd. Maybe someone could open a few samples for comparison and report.
 
The automotive filters have a better bypass design, using a real valve and a wire spring. The champion filters use a leaf spring to push on the the filter itself to control bypass, and there's no valve. The big advantage the automotive filters have that an aircraft filter doesn't have is an anti-drainback valve, which is just a silicone flap over the holes on the inside of the filter. This is where the real advantage of the $5.99 filter lies. The filter itself will hold about 3/4 qt. of oil, and will not let it drain out after shutdown. The champion filters will drain themselves, along with the junk inside the filter. So that junk will settle back down on your oil pump gears, if the trash can't make it thru the oil pump housing. Not only that but it takes some amount of time to fill the filter on startup, which will happen sooner with a filter that has a drainback valve. As most know, a considerable portion of engine wear occurs at startup, so having a bit of oil in the filter helps considerably in preventing startup wear.

Not all automotive filters are the same, in fact some name brands are pretty poor. Napa Gold filters are made by Wix and they are a good filter. Fram is a filter to stay away from, just google for oil filter tests and you'll find they don't fare well in testing.

Rhetorical question...: how many aircraft filters have you seen that have come loose, that have been properly tightened, even safety wired? My point here is if the filter is properly torqued, the safety wire is never going to be necessary.
 
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K&N oil filters have a nut with safety wire hole.

They also quote a burst pressure of 550 psi with "Gold" filter and 265 psi with the std.
 
Automotive replacement parts like filters are prime targets for counterfeiters. That said, we use a Fram racing oil filter on a filter conversion setup on the T-28. The racing oil filters have thicker shells as well as thicker base plates. (BTW, Fram has just announced a recall on their racing oil filters!) The racing filters are probably much less likely to be counterfeited due to the limited demand. Modern car engines are using very light oils, and with their roller cams, don't require much oil pressure. You can figure that common oil filters are designed for these modest requirements. Is this really a place where you want to try to reduce your operating costs? You will have few options when your oil filter bursts. Think about a windscreen covered with oil, your engine being toasted, and where you will land! Fly a half-hour less, and spend the savings on a good filter!
 
How to Saftie Car Filter

Put on a big hose clamp around the filter and safetie to that. I'm using Champions, but I'm using a hose clamp to hold the filter magnet on so I have seen that it will stay on.
 
I'm with RocketBob

I've been using the Napa Gold 1068 on my 180hp Superior after the first oil change nearly 1.5 years ago. If you're worried about not having any safety wire, I'll just say that I've found that these filters are always tighter after 3 months than I remember installing them.
 
dtw_rv6 said:
I've been using the Napa Gold 1068 on my 180hp Superior after the first oil change nearly 1.5 years ago. If you're worried about not having any safety wire, I'll just say that I've found that these filters are always tighter after 3 months than I remember installing them.
Click to expand...

No one yet has posted a CROSS REFERENCE to the aircraft filter that they replaced with an automotive filter. There are three different thread sizes on the aircraft filters each available in long and short length.

So far, I have seen no PROOF other than opinion that the automotive filters are as good as aircraft filters.
 
Amsoil bypass filter and Centrifuges

You know there are things called bypass filters that allows a certain amount of oil to be be filtered at a fine quality. Because it can't flow at full rate it bypasses some of the oil through a regular filter medium.

These are made for high use commercial heavy duty engines, like diesels, which have a lot of blow by and issues with oil contamination, not unlike aircraft engines.

I wounder if a bypass filter could be used alone or in series to get better filtering.

PART 2 - Centrifuge (just for fun - talk amongst your selves)

Again in heavy duty applications and where there us massive quantity of oil, many times oil is put through a centrifuge. This cleans it better a filter and extends the oil life and engines life. When talking these huge marine or industrial engines this is a big deal and saves them big money. For a one plane deal with 6 qts not a question of money but more about engine life.

Some times the oil is drained and processed, than poured back into the engine. The stuff left over in the centrifuge is goop. Other centrifuges are actually working in real time as the engine runs, so the oil is continuously processed as another step in the filtering process with standard filters. I could see draining the oil out of the Lyc at 10-15 hours and running it through a centrifuge.

The stuff that gets spun out of the oil is amazing and gets the particles down below 1 micron, less than if you filtered it, removing soot and other contaminates including water.
 
gmcjetpilot said:
Some times the oil is drained and processed, than poured back into the engine. The stuff left over in the centrifuge is goop.

The stuff that gets spun out of the oil is amazing and gets the particles down below 1 micron, less than if you filtered it, removing soot and other contaminates including water.
Click to expand...

YEP! just look inside a hollow crankshaft..............:eek:
 
This is no place....

RV6_flyer said:
No one yet has posted a CROSS REFERENCE to the aircraft filter that they replaced with an automotive filter. There are three different thread sizes on the aircraft filters each available in long and short length.

So far, I have seen no PROOF other than opinion that the automotive filters are as good as aircraft filters.
Click to expand...

.......to scimp, guys. Buy recapped tires instead, from Desser....FAA yellow tagged. I've experienced an oiled over windshield.....not good.

Regards,
 
RV6_flyer said:
No one yet has posted a CROSS REFERENCE to the aircraft filter that they replaced with an automotive filter. There are three different thread sizes on the aircraft filters each available in long and short length.

So far, I have seen no PROOF other than opinion that the automotive filters are as good as aircraft filters.
Click to expand...

48110, just double-nut the stud to remove it off the old filter and use it on the Napa filter.

My oil analysis trends are no worse/better than what they were before the oil filter change. But Blackstone always makes a comment about my oil analysis coming back good, and I change at 50 hour intervals. One particular one said "nice wearing O-360".
 
Oil Filters compared

I sacrificed two good oil filters for the better of VAF. Hopefully the airplane building gods will now bless me. I opened up th Champion CH48108-1 and the K&N HP-2004. Both have the thread size of 3/4-18 and both will fit on my engine, ECI 360. The Champion is a physically is a little heavier and robust. The Champion cost 19 bucks from Vans and the K&N 13 bucks from my local auto parts store. Both have an anti siphon valve but the Champion is bigger and more heavy duty. The champion has a coil spring to hold the element in the can and the K&N has a thin leaf spring. The Champion has a bypass valve that slips into the top of the element and the bypass valve in the K&N is integral to the element. The bypass valve spring is much longer in the Champion. The filter material in the Champion looks to be of better quality and the pleats are more consistent. The metal can thickness of the Champion is .025 inches and The K&N is .020 thickness. Also another thing to note is there was corrosion on the inside of the brand new just bought K&N filter "rust".
I personally am sold on the Champion filter and would not put the K&N on my engine.
001en5.jpg

002vj4.jpg

003lf2.jpg
 
Can I assume that the K&N filter is a premium filter, not the $3.79 Purolator on the shelf at Wal-Mart?
This doesn't seem like the place to economize.
Thanks, and nice job!
 
Yep, the K&N oil filters are a "premium" item in the automotive world.

Here's a link to a car enthusiast who's been examining automotive oil filters for a while now... and was once threatened by an automotive-stuff retailer's legal beagles. Lots of good info:
Oil Filters Revealed
 
Looks like Champion has completely changed their design, and have done so recently because I have changed filters on other airplanes using new filters recently purchased. The older style Champions had a leaf spring for the bypass, and no valve to speak of, and no nitrile anti-drainback valve. So it looks like they've caught up a bit with the automotive world, which is good.
 
rocketbob said:
Looks like Champion has completely changed their design, and have done so recently because I have changed filters on other airplanes using new filters recently purchased. The older style Champions had a leaf spring for the bypass, and no valve to speak of, and no nitrile anti-drainback valve. So it looks like they've caught up a bit with the automotive world, which is good.
Click to expand...

Per info on Champion's website, their models 108 and 109 have the bypass valve, the others do not.
 
Great Write Up By AMURRAY!! Thanks!!

Great write up on the disection of the two filters thanks to AMURRAY.

Six bucks difference in price! I don't think I will gamble my almost $30,000.00 engine on a six buck savings.

I have seen oil filters explode on race cars. Cold start on engines can be over 100 psi and when a filter lets go it's quite the mess!

I'll stick with the Champion Aviation Filter.

Ted
 
Up here in the Great White North in 25 years as a mechanic I never saw a filter blow off because of high oil pressure from a cold start. The only oil filter failure I saw was when we installed a VW gas engine filter onto a Diesel. They really should not have made them interchangeable!

Having said that I do not think that modern oil filters are as good as they used to be. They are much smaller than the older filters. The Ford FL-8 was about the best filter you could buy. Some of the filters that are available now are of questionable quality, I would stick to the known good aircraft ones as the cost does not seem to be that big a deal.

That cut away of the Champion filter showed a very good filter, seems like the way to go. Maybe if one fit my truck I should use the aircraft filter on my truck.

Bob Parry
 
Finally found a filter for my GTO...

robpar said:
...Maybe if one fit my truck I should use the aircraft filter on my truck.
Bob Parry
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking. For years, I've been looking for a "tall" filter to use on Buick-Olds-Pontiac V-8 engines. The CH48104 is the one to use for those engines.

Heinrich Gerhardt
RV-6, flying
'66 GTO, EFI'd 428
'04 BMW R1150RT
 
AlexPeterson said:
No. See pages 29 and 30 of this pdf document from Champion.
Click to expand...

YOU ARE CORRECT........... Looking on page 30, you see that the 108 and 109-1 are for CONTINENTAL motors, and that is what you see in the photo of the cut open filter. Maybe that is why he was willing to cut open what looks like a nice new filter........:eek:
 
Waking this thread from a long sleep…

I’ve got a lycoming O-320 and so I worry about my camshaft. I use cam guard every oil change and XC 25/50. I try my best to only crank the motor if I know I’m going to be at full operating temps for a bit, and I try to exercise my engine regularly.

But I also have a busy job and two young kids so my airplane sometimes sees unforecast periods of inactivity.

I was looking into a bypass oil filtration system for my diesel to try and extend my oil change intervals, and I started wondering if anyone has run a system like that on an aircraft? Not to extend the oil, but it looks like it helps pull all the fun stuff from the combustion process and blow-by from the oil. Might add some peace of mind to a lycoming?

I’ve also been debating relocating my normal oil filter since my current lycoming spin-on adapter makes oil changes a nightmare. So this could be a two-fer. Unless it’s a terrible idea.

Thanks!
 
CamTom12 said:
...

I was looking into a bypass oil filtration system for my diesel to try and extend my oil change intervals, and I started wondering if anyone has run a system like that on an aircraft? Not to extend the oil, but it looks like it helps pull all the fun stuff from the combustion process and blow-by from the oil. Might add some peace of mind to a lycoming?
...
Unless it’s a terrible idea.
...
Click to expand...
I doubt it's a terrible idea, but I decided not to do it even after buying a kit that does this. My thinking was the following - it's a non-standard thing to do on a Lycoming and will greatly increase the risk of oil departing the engine. Lots more hoses and connections, but to be fair, probably not a lot more than an inverted oil system. The kits out there are not for aircraft (that I know of) but for autos/trucks. I think the idea of additional filtering of the oil is very sound, but considering the weight, additional risk, and relatively low cost of cleanable oil filters and oil, I decided against it.
 
And reality strikes

I need to change the oil on my H2 after having been grounded since mid-September, a longer story. The Temest 48103-2 for my engine is on back order until the end of January as of now, the Champion mid Feb. I imagine I’m not alone. Is there a current wisdom on viable alternates?
 
Ck amazon

There are tempest 48103 oil filters on Amazon. Sold by Fallon Pilot Shop. They are reputable. We ordered a case of filters from them earlier this fall and they arrived. You could go to their website as well to call them directly. They are costly but they have them.
 
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rjcthree said:
Is there a current wisdom on viable alternates?
Click to expand...

Plenty of alternatives at the auto parts store. Available today for $7. I have never had an aviation filter on my engines and it has stopped running yet. Several posts on the versions that are a good fit for these engines.

Not trying to convert others to my approach, but seems like a viable alternative to use these once while waiting for the filter you really want.

Larry
 
CamTom12 said:
I was looking into a bypass oil filtration system for my diesel to try and extend my oil change intervals, and I started wondering if anyone has run a system like that on an aircraft? Not to extend the oil, but it looks like it helps pull all the fun stuff from the combustion process and blow-by from the oil. Might add some peace of mind to a lycoming?!
Click to expand...

I used to use a dehydrator and occasional Camgard but now I rely on flying for 45mins to a hour to boil(?) the moisture out of the oil and after landing, I blow most of the rest out the breather with an air mattress pump on the oil filler. You might be surprised how much mist comes out--moisture and oil vapor, I suppose. That moisture that would condense in the crankcase. I recently pulled some cylinders at 780 hrs and the cams looked good.

If you use a dehydrator, it will also keep the silica from getting as oily.
 
Thanks…but ouch!

Carol, thanks. $47 kinda hurts my feelings. Nothing about this flying thing is cheap, I suppose.
 
rocketbob said:
I use the Napa Gold 1068. It will bypass at full flow between 8-11psi. If the bypass valve is operating properly, there's virtually no possibility of cold oil causing the filter to fail.
Click to expand...

FYI Specs on the NAPA GOLD 1068 filter indicate:
Burst pressure at 275 PSI
Micron filter ability down to 21
Anti- Drainback valve built in
Bypass valve opens 8 to 11 PSID
Steel inner cylinder prevents element collapse

Looks like it would be a good substitute filter for a 0320.

BUT I've never tried one (on my Lyc 0320) nor do I know the current differential in price for the NAPAGOLD 1068 vs the Tempest 48110 -1
 
DennisRhodes said:
FYI Specs on the NAPA GOLD 1068 filter indicate:
Burst pressure at 275 PSI
Micron filter ability down to 21
Anti- Drainback valve built in
Bypass valve opens 8 to 11 PSID
Steel inner cylinder prevents element collapse

Looks like it would be a good substitute filter for a 0320.

BUT I've never tried one (on my Lyc 0320) nor do I know the current differential in price for the NAPAGOLD 1068 vs the Tempest 48110 -1
Click to expand...

Tempest; ~$32

NAPA; ~$13
 
DennisRhodes said:
BUT I've never tried one (on my Lyc 0320) nor do I know the current differential in price for the NAPA GOLD 1068 vs the Tempest 48110 -1
Click to expand...

The NAPA Gold 1068 is also known as the Wix 51068; available at Rock Auto online for 6 bucks each. I've been running them for years, no issues.
 
CamTom12 said:
Waking this thread from a long sleep…

I’ve got a lycoming O-320 and so I worry about my camshaft. I use cam guard every oil change and XC 25/50. I try my best to only crank the motor if I know I’m going to be at full operating temps for a bit, and I try to exercise my engine regularly.

But I also have a busy job and two young kids so my airplane sometimes sees unforecast periods of inactivity.

I was looking into a bypass oil filtration system for my diesel to try and extend my oil change intervals, and I started wondering if anyone has run a system like that on an aircraft? Not to extend the oil, but it looks like it helps pull all the fun stuff from the combustion process and blow-by from the oil. Might add some peace of mind to a lycoming?

I’ve also been debating relocating my normal oil filter since my current lycoming spin-on adapter makes oil changes a nightmare. So this could be a two-fer. Unless it’s a terrible idea.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I too am curious enough about the bypass oil filters to try one on the Rocket. Never saw one installed on an aircraft engine until my boss bought a Turbo Bonanza with an STC'd Franz kit installed. Adds weight and complexity, yes, but even the failure mode would be fairly benign if designed correctly. I consider it pretty low on the risk scale.
 
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