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Please help! Need RV-10 Transition Training (Colorado)

A

AlpineYoda

Well Known Member
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I received my airworthiness certificate last week and I'm ready to start flight testing. I know a few CFIs in the area with many thousands of hours, including one who has an RV-14, but that isn't enough for the insurance company.

The proposed policy / binder just said that I needed 3 hours of dual instruction and a CFI endorsement, but the as-issued policy (after I paid my money) says that the CFI needs 25 hours time in type.

Is there a CFI in the Denver area with 25 hours in an RV-10? My plane is based in Boulder. I have a LODA (if they are still required) and will pay for your expenses and time, of course.

Alternatively, I'm willing to travel. Is there a VAF member who is a CFI who is willing to help me get those three hours in his/her plane?

Thanks everyone for your help!
 
Qualified Pilot

I think it may end being more complicated than that, since if your plane doesn't yet have 8 hours and the CFI is not a Qualified Pilot per AC 90-116, they can't be with you in the airplane anyway.

If you have done the 8 hours, and the tests needed, they can just be an Observer Pilot with pretty much the basic PPL or more requirements. I think there was a discussion a few days ago about whether giving dual during the 2nd Pilot Program (AC 90-116) was allowed (officially, ;)).

It seems you have a chicken/egg problem in your case. What is the minimum the insurance company wants if you were to just insure an additional pilot and let them fly off the first 8 hours (I think scenario 2 in AC 90-116)?

That kind of leaves you with going somewhere that has the (old, still relevant) LODA to receive dual in a hired RV-10.

Or, just don't crash the first 3 hours solo, viola you have time-in-type, and are now forever insurable :cool:

Lastly, while not the best for actual learning etc, you could go up with someone you know who has an RV-10, let them do hood work, you be PIC logging the hours, and voila, you have PIC RV-10 hours in your logbook, many times insurance is good with waiving the dual requirement if you can show PIC time-in-type. They don't usually specify how you got the hours, beyond maybe X # of TO/L, which maybe your friend would let you do some if they felt comfortable, just to get the TO/L counted.

It's a minefield, trying to bootstrap yourself into what the insurance companies want.
 
Alex DeDominicis

Alex is an easy flight to get to from your area and he’s en excellent instructor in his 10. His training was invaluable for me and made my first flights a non-event.
 
AlpineYoda said:
..... I have a LODA (if they are still required) and will pay for your expenses and time, of course.

Alternatively, I'm willing to travel. Is there a VAF member who is a CFI who is willing to help me get those three hours in his/her plane?
Click to expand...

The LODA you undoubtably have, to allow a CFI to instruct you in your airplane, is no longer needed. The FAA changed the FARs. But as already pointed out, giving/getting instruction during phase 1 is not the intent of the "second pilot" phase 1 flying.
To get instruction for hire in the airplane furnished by a CFI, he (the owner) must have the "old" LODA, authorizing a deviation from the 'not for hire' restriction. This is just a paperwork exercise; but if the CFI wants his plane insured while giving instruction for hire, it's a major cost.

Go see Alex in TX.
 
Scott, one you have the time in type you need, consider using the excellent EAA flight test guide during testing. It's well worth the effort.

Dave
 
BobTurner said:
But as already pointed out, giving/getting instruction during phase 1 is not the intent of the "second pilot" phase 1 flying.
Click to expand...

Going through AC90-116 again for a current project, and I agree that getting or giving instruction during phase 1 is probably a bad idea (too many things are happening at once to learn, and also to remain safe), and also not the intent.

But, AC90-116 doesn't seem to explicitly prohibit it, and makes this reference in section 17:
17. LOGGING OF TIME.
a. Logging of PIC Time. Logging of flight time must be done in accordance with
§ 61.51(e), Logging pilot-in-command flight time.
b. Logging of Training Time. Logging of training time may only be done in accordance with § 61.51(h), Logging training time.
Click to expand...

Of course all other stipulations about the 2nd pilot etc (QP, OP, AIT, ITP, LODA's, lions, tigers, oh my) must be adhered to, but I personally wouldn't have a problem giving instruction in the later portion of Phase 1 (say, when approaching the 40 hours and I see due diligence on test flights and the bugs are worked out, now it's just burning hours).

Doesn't help the OP in their case, but I can't find any actual prohibition in AC 90-116 about instructing during Phase 1.
 
RV-10 vs 14 insurance needs

When I received my insurance (AIG) for the RV-14 I was told that a check-out in a 10 was also acceptable. I would assume the reverse would also be true but possibly not. They do seem to fly very similar and with the same wing albeit slightly longer in the 10.
 
The OLD LODA

I am based out of Kansas City and just received the LODA to give transition training in my RV-10. I have about 600hrs in it. It has a 3 x G3X screen and a 650 for the navigator. If you are still in need I'd love to help.
 
Untainted123 said:
Or, just don't crash the first 3 hours solo, viola you have time-in-type, and are now forever insurable :cool:

Lastly, while not the best for actual learning etc, you could go up with someone you know who has an RV-10, let them do hood work, you be PIC logging the hours, and voila, you have PIC RV-10 hours in your logbook, many times insurance is good with waiving the dual requirement if you can show PIC time-in-type. .
Click to expand...

No “voila”. The insurance companies want dual instruction w/sign-off, not just 3 hrs.
And then usually another 5 hrs before you can fly passengers.
 
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