What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Another Battery Thread Alternative to Odyssey

gmcjetpilot

Well Known Member
Has anyone used XS Power D680 and Full Throttle FT230 are two?

I know about the XEARTH 680, 680C and 900. That is an option, but for now 260% less is attractive, I am sticking with AGM.

One thing holding me back is a Li-Ion charger. Or can I use a standard Car FLA/AMG/GEL charger?
 
Last edited:
Has anyone used XS Power D680 and Full Throttle FT230 are two?

I know about the XEARTH 680, 680C and 900. That is an option, but for now 260% less is attractive, I am sticking with AGM.

One thing holding me back is a Li-Ion charger. Or can I use a standard Car FLA/AMG/GEL charger?

If you are going to use a lithium type battery, DO NOT use a standard charger...unless you want to see first hand, what happens when you mistreat a lithium battery.
 
My two Shorai lithium batteries (4 years old now) showed 13.2 and 13.7V respectively after sitting for 100 days without charging. The engine turned over briskly.

You don't need a trickle charger on these as the self discharge rate is a fraction of lead acid types. You shouldn't on a PC680 either. I got 8 years out of my first 680 and it was still ok when removed. Most people damage them with chargers in my view.

I use a std low rate charger designed for AGMs to charge the Shorai if I'm working on something with the master on. Fine and safe if you monitor the voltage. Charge rate falls way off at you approach 14V but you don't want to leave it on there for hours.
 
Last edited:
Full Throttle FT-230

Has anyone used XS Power D680 and Full Throttle FT230 are two?

I know about the XEARTH 680, 680C and 900. That is an option, but for now 260% less is attractive, I am sticking with AGM.

One thing holding me back is a Li-Ion charger. Or can I use a standard Car FLA/AMG/GEL charger?

I've had the FT-230 for several months now. Mechanically a drop in replacement for the PC-680. It has higher claimed specs than the PC-680 (230 CCA vs 170 CCA) - and I am inclined to believe it based on anecdotal observation. With all of my PC-680s (4) over the years, the Garmin GDU-375 in the panel would reboot during start - undoubtedly due to voltage drop during cranking. This no longer occurs with the FT-230.
 
A significant proof of improvement.

I've had the FT-230 for several months now. Mechanically a drop in replacement for the PC-680. It has higher claimed specs than the PC-680 (230 CCA vs 170 CCA) - and I am inclined to believe it based on anecdotal observation. With all of my PC-680s (4) over the years, the Garmin GDU-375 in the panel would reboot during start - undoubtedly due to voltage drop during cranking. This no longer occurs with the FT-230.

Thanks Dan, this is significant!!! My panel does this too. Since I don't have any wireless connection to my 650 I have to hand enter the flight plan after the engine is running. They can get complicated sometimes.
 
Be advised, the full throttle battery is not a drop in replacement at least on the Rv7 battery box. Based upon posts from the forum, I ordered this battery to replace the odyssey.
The odyssey slid right out, but when I went to put in the full throttle it slid in about 1/3 and wouldn’t go in any further. That’s when the real trouble started.
It was now jammed and would not come out. I attached rope to the terminals and no matter how hard I pulled it wouldn’t come out.
Had to remove the battery box from the firewall, and pound the battery out with a wood block from the bottom of battery box opening.
I then took the battery over to another RV7 that is under construction and same thing.
When I compared the odyssey with the full throttle I noticed the difference in the two. The odyssey has rounded corners, the full throttle doesn’t.
Figuring I had nothing to loose, I took a file and ground down the corners to a rounded shape and was able to finally get it to slide in to the vans battery box.
It’s a tight fit, but goes in. If the battery case ever swells though, it probably isn’t ever going to come out.
 
Be advised, the full throttle battery is not a drop in replacement at least on the Rv7 battery box. Based upon posts from the forum, I ordered this battery to replace the odyssey.
The odyssey slid right out, but when I went to put in the full throttle it slid in about 1/3 and wouldn’t go in any further. That’s when the real trouble started.
It was now jammed and would not come out. I attached rope to the terminals and no matter how hard I pulled it wouldn’t come out.
Had to remove the battery box from the firewall, and pound the battery out with a wood block from the bottom of battery box opening.
I then took the battery over to another RV7 that is under construction and same thing.
When I compared the odyssey with the full throttle I noticed the difference in the two. The odyssey has rounded corners, the full throttle doesn’t.
Figuring I had nothing to loose, I took a file and ground down the corners to a rounded shape and was able to finally get it to slide in to the vans battery box.
It’s a tight fit, but goes in. If the battery case ever swells though, it probably isn’t ever going to come out.

This was not my experience. The FT-230 dropped directly into the battery box on my RV-7 with no issues. Construction tolerances (either battery or box)?
 
Tight Fit

Yep, my Full Throttle FT-230 took some persuading to fit completely in my RV-7A battery box. It took a little more than a gentle push and I did worry a little that it would be overly challenging to remove the battery when necessary.

I did have to remove the battery recently because I dropped a washer between the back of the battery and the back of the battery box, so there is some room and I suspect the corner radius difference discussed in an earlier post is the problem. Removing the battery was a bit of a struggle, but I did not need to remove the battery box from the firewall and beat on the bottom with a chunk of wood.

The battery has worked fine.

Regards,
Rob
N706DR
 
.... With all of my PC-680s (4) over the years, the Garmin GDU-375 in the panel would reboot during start - undoubtedly due to voltage drop during cranking. This no longer occurs with the FT-230.

I solved the reboot issues on my G3X during engine start with a PC680 by installing a 7 Ah, 12 volt aux battery, connected to one of the power inputs on the G3X. Thanks for the info on the FT-230. I've got a 2-1/2 years on my current PC-680, so it's time to think about lining up a replacement.

Since 2010, I've purchased 6 PC-680 batteries. So, about 2 years of usage is all I've been getting out of them while flying about 100 hrs. a year, 90% of that time is on cross-countries 2 hrs. or more in length.
 
Last edited:
by installing a 7 Ah, 12 volt aux battery, connected to one of the power inputs on the G3X.
DO you charge Aux. Bat. w/ planes charging system? How do you switch it. I assume Garmin has multiple pwr inputs like GRT EFIS.


THANKS for the input. Yes fit is function of tolerances. Published specs PC680 vs. FT230,

PC680 Dimensions L x W x H (in) 7.27 x 3.11 x 6.69
FT230 Dimensions L x W x H (in) 7.13 x 3.03 x 6.57

The FT230 claims more capacity and cranking amps. Sounds like ppl are happy. Question is longevity. HEAT and allowing battery to discharge due to disuse shortens service life.

Keep us updated on longevity. My BMW motorcycle uses the same size battery.
 
Last edited:
EFIS backup battery

You can install a backup battery that is powered from the main bus.
Install a relay between the main bus and the backup battery that disconnects
the backup battery from main bus when it has no power. Ie master switch is off.
The backup battery can be connected to EFIS power input 2 with a toggle switch in between.
Then you have emergency power to EFIS and maybe a radio.
This can be used on GND before engine start to get clearence and it will power the EFIS during enggine start.
There is one more switch to check OFF when you park the aircraft.
But if the EFIS is on, you will see that.

Good luck
 
I used the Enersys SBS-J16 battery as a PC680 replacement. Enersys is the parent corporation of Odyssey. The SBS is identical in size to the 680 but it has 220 cold cranking amps vs 170. This is accomplished by TPPL technology - thin plate pure lead - more surface within the same space.
The SBS battery spins my 1100 hour O320 like never before with no hesitation getting past that first compression stroke. Cost is about $230.
Kudos to whoever mentioned the SBS battery here on VAF a year-ish ago.
 
FT-230 info

I just installed a FT-230 battery in my RV-8 with a stock Vans firewall mounted battery box. It is a slightly tighter fit and it was about 3/16" taller than the PC-680.

The height issue was easily solved by adding a washer on top of the hold down bar spacers.

There is a very noticeable difference in the cranking power with the FT-230 vs the PC-680 battery. The FT-230 definitely turns the starter /engine quite a bit faster than the PC-680 does, nearly the same as a Earth X battery does, but without the the massive alternator amp draw that the Earth X exhibits after start.

Overall seems to be a good upgrade in battery capability, time will tell if its reliable.

Paid $145 via Amazon.
 
After reading many threads here on Odyssey PC680 alternatives and having a less than peppy crank on my 0-360 I decided to try a replacement. I went with the Full River, Full Throttle FT230. It was a perfect slide in fit to my standard Vans firewall battery box. The FT230 means 230 CCA. Much livelier starts on my power hungry light weight starter. If you look at their website there is a FT230L (same specs as the FT230 but left positive post) and the FT230D (lighter 13lbs vs 15.4 lbs but not the same output). As mentioned by WA85, washers are required on the hold-down bar to make up the slight difference in height. Keep in mind that I just got the battery and can't comment on long term service and I will report back.
 
Just installed a Full Throttle FT-230 to replace an Odyssey 680 in my RV-8. It fit perfectly. Under 10 starts so far. Works well. It was on sale. About $109 delivered.
 
Just installed a Full Throttle FT-230 to replace an Odyssey 680 in my RV-8. It fit perfectly. Under 10 starts so far. Works well. It was on sale. About $109 delivered.
you are welcome post #11.... told you.... it has more crank amps by spec and in my experience. Has higher volts and slow discharge, I have not had good luck with the last two PC680 I bought but I blame my self one premature death due to full discharge. Also now have dedicated new technology AGM charger.
 
That is a good price for the FT-230 on the manufacturer's website. I did a little hunting around and found some other choices similar in size.
XS Power D680
Braille G20
Braille G30
Google: MeLe 600 Series Rally Spec Battery Mount
Select the MeLe company website
(This mount fits the Odyssey 680, FT-230 etc.)
scroll down and look on the right hand side and it shows other batteries the mount fits (ie Odessey comparables)
what's nice is you can see all the specs for several battery choices - click on the battery names, they're hyperlinked
 
XS Power D680 320 CCA 7.13" x 3.03" x 6.5" 15.4 lbs
FT-230 230 CCA 7.13 x 3.03" x 6.57" 15.4 lbs
Odyssey ODS-AGM16L (the 680) 170 CCA 7.15" x 3.00" x 6.65 " 15.4 lbs
 
XS Power D680 320 CCA 7.13" x 3.03" x 6.5" 15.4 lbs
FT-230 230 CCA 7.13 x 3.03" x 6.57" 15.4 lbs
Odyssey ODS-AGM16L (the 680) 170 CCA 7.15" x 3.00" x 6.65 " 15.4 lbs
That is great data, but some might think you implying something...

If you are implying XS power really makes 40% more than Full Throttle (FT-230), and 88% more than Odyssey, that is a hard no. LOOK at the weights. Look at size? Same basic type (AGM). Do you think that is 320 CCA? No Sir, that is CA or cranking amps.... and whatever they say it is. They tested at 32F apparently? CCA test is 30 seconds, with MIN specified 7.2 voltage at 0'0F (-18.2C). Big difference. I see no CCA published for XS Power I could find. I also found specs varied a bit from vendor to vendor?

EDIT: I found CA and CCA for XS Power D680 CA – 370, CCA – 326. This is MORE than you listed. I will just say it, I am skeptical and their specs, all over the place. If that is true WOW. It is under the too good to be true in my mind but someone buy one and test it. Those numbers just are not believable to me. It could just be a typo. and CCA is 226A. But CA of 370A? At this point who cares but this is why I went FT-230.

I found the documentation on FT-230 to be very detailed, professional and correct. Documentation, hard data on XS Power not so satisfying and inconsistent. I called both companies. Full Throttle customer service was better and knew more technical details. XS Power was USA distributor and nice enough, just not able to answer questions.

Do you research. XS Power is 1 yr warranty on AGM batteries. Full Throttle 4 years.

Apples and apple's. The FT-230 has 310A CA. So is the 320A for XS Power better? May be, if accurate. Again the published data and documentation is less with XS Power brand. We don't know XS power's CCA, at least I could find.

I have used this "680" size AMG battery for decades in motorcycle and plane, mostly Odyssey... almost 2 years the FT-230 charges to higher voltage, holds (charge) voltage very well, high build build quality, cranks better than my last Odyssey PC680.... Price is less as well... As far as Odyssey they cost more. They use to be lower priced lower. There is no discount or sale.

For me how long will it last and do the job is what counts... I have a very good feeling I will get nice service, but this is my first FT battery. At this point it is reliable. My plane and motorcycle go without use for periods, sometimes the motorcycle 3 months. I will not the NOCO 2 amp on it. Sometimes I forget. No worries, it is fully charged 3 months later. My bike does have at least a clock for sure, may be ECU? So I am pleased.

My first Odyssey P680 long ago I recall lasted at least +5 years. The following PC680's not as long. There have been rumor's that they lowered quality. Even if they are the same as always they cost more, and my last Odyssey did not last (with caveat I let it discharge for a long time). My experiment with FT is a win so far.

XS Power is not making 320A CCA. Is it making 320A CA? As I said I did not have confidence in what is published. I am sure it's OK. Up to you. I sound like I am making a sales pitch advertisement for Full Throttle. Batteries are batteries, shop around. Found the OFF ROAD and Power Sport forums talk about these batteries.

PS Earth X was on the radar last time I bought a battery. I can almost buy three FT-230's for the price of one Earth X, which has a 1 year warranty! I talked to them at the airshow and they said it should last 5 yrs. The LiFePo4 fire risk is small to nil. It has a fancy BMS to maintain charging because they need that to be safe. Also they are not loving engine heat firewall forward. No debate, Earth X batteries are nice. However if they cost 2.5 times more and have same service life, the math was simple for me. On the other hand people swear by them. Again does it hold charge, start plane, last a long time. That is all I expect along with good value (reasonable price).
 
Last edited:
Not implying anything. Simply found a site that pointed to batttery alternatives with specs. Thought I'd share what I came across, others can take it from there, verify data etc. Apparently I struck a nerve....
 
Full River HC20, AGM batt, they are a 680 clone without the rip off price👍 I’d never use a LiPo in my planes, having had two catch fire in my RC toys I value my life!
 
Not implying anything. Simply found a site that pointed to batttery alternatives with specs. Thought I'd share what I came across, others can take it from there, verify data etc. Apparently I struck a nerve....
Reference please.... I think you typed it wrong CA and CCA is different. Cheers
 
Full River HC20, AGM batt, they are a 680 clone without the rip off price👍 I’d never use a LiPo in my planes, having had two catch fire in my RC toys I value my life!
I talked to them (Full Throttle)... if you look at their literature their design is different. Sales hype? May be, but I can say it performs better than Odyssey by my own personal observation, higher charge voltage, does not lose charge, cranks faster. If it is a RIP OFF as you say it is a great one.

As far as rip off what is XS Power? New revolutionary design? There is a lawsuit or claim by someone XS power I believe did actually rip off the design... I'll not discuss, don't know the details, but 680 size is NOT new. AGM technology not new. They all should perform about the same. What I find in the generic car FLA is quality of materials, like recycled lead) and internal thicknesses of plate film separators.

My VW had a battery just DIED 3.5 yrs later out of warranty for battery. Many VW owners had the same sudden death syndrome with the OEM battery like clock work after 3 years. Weird. No worries the dealer would put a new one in for $380. I am 6 yrs in on my Everlast Walmart Special I paid $90 for. Most battery prices very based on warranty period. The Everlast was 5 yrs pro rated. So it's worth core 5yrs one day. Still it is strong at 6 yrs. I hate to see what they cost now....
 
Last edited:
I installed an odyssey 950. It sells for around 330 dollars. Great cranking power, 60 min reserve amps, weighs in at 20 lbs. I had to do a mod on the battery Tray but simple and easy. The problem with standard car batteries they are all recycled lead material.
 
I’d never use a LiPo in my planes, having had two catch fire in my RC toys I value my life!
The "lithium" batteries used in RC cars are LiPo (Lithium Polymer). EarthX batteries use LiFePO4 chemistry (Lithium Iron Phosphate). LiPo batteries can experience thermal runaways under certain circumstances. That isn't the case with LiFePO4. Huge difference.
 
I came across a thread here on VAF in 2018 about what was the APEX 12220 battery. Been bought out by Battery Sharks I think but the battery
is still available. 13.5 lbs. 22ah capacity. It cranks my O320 with more gusto than the PC680 EVER thought about. The first one I installed was
still going very strong after 5 years but at $39 I decided to replace it with new one. Only thing was is would go down into the battery tray
about 3/4 of the way and wedge. I solved this by setting a nylon block in first so it rests on the block. I did have to get a couple longer hold
down bolts. For me, this one at $39 or the PC 680 at $$$170ish... a no brainer.
 
Last edited:
The "lithium" batteries used in RC cars are LiPo (Lithium Polymer). EarthX batteries use LiFePO4 chemistry (Lithium Iron Phosphate). LiPo batteries can experience thermal runaways under certain circumstances. That isn't the case with LiFePO4. Huge difference.
I would agree to disagree; Any battery can have issues, explode, melt down, shorts, even FLA.... LiFePO4 is NOT impervious to thermal runaway, just better than other Li-Ion chemistries and designs. This is why all these lithium batteries, even the LiFePO4 batteries have their own BMS guarding it and disconnecting it if the charging current is not good or they get TOO HOT.... Earth X has max ambient temp limits. They even sell a thermocouple to monitor that.

DO YOU WANT YOUR BATTERY SELF DISCONNECTING? That is what the BMS might do on a dark and stormy night in your sky scooter. There are PROS and CONS.... for me Earth X is great (at half th price), but at full price "conventional" AGM batteries do the job for me.... If Earth X had a 10 yr warranty I might consider, but I think it is 2 year.
 
Last edited:

Attachments

  • BFC129FA-B24D-40F6-8CA5-1B2ACF9CAE98.jpeg
    BFC129FA-B24D-40F6-8CA5-1B2ACF9CAE98.jpeg
    341.4 KB · Views: 20
  • 799A9659-42CE-4F0B-AC8C-D4EF528CA78E.png
    799A9659-42CE-4F0B-AC8C-D4EF528CA78E.png
    2.6 MB · Views: 13
  • F541798A-61E8-4D5C-A0D3-8B6C9CC95554.jpeg
    F541798A-61E8-4D5C-A0D3-8B6C9CC95554.jpeg
    221.3 KB · Views: 14
Last edited:
I would agree to disagree;
My point is that many people group "lithium" batteries into one pot and consider them all the same. There are many different types of "lithium" batteries. Some carry high risk of thermal runaways under certain conditions (e.g. driving a nail through the battery). Others have zero risk under the same conditions.

Some folks don't want LiFePO4 because of the cost. Others are afraid of them which is unfortunate. I'm just trying to educate some folks so they don't miss out on the many advantages that LiFePO4 battery offer us- which obviously isn't working :-(
 
Back
Top