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Oil Analysis history report
- Thread starter turbo
- Start date
Ed,
I think you should cut open every filter and not rely on oil analysis for filter inspection. I have seen many times where the engine part failure produced larger pieces of metal that were removed from the oil by the filter and didn't show up in the analysis. I think it is a really good idea to check the filter every oil change and the suction screen at least every 100 hours (at a minimum) along with doing oil analysis if that is your cup of tea. I think this will provide the best overview of the internal engine condition without going overboard.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
?The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at your own risk."
I think you should cut open every filter and not rely on oil analysis for filter inspection. I have seen many times where the engine part failure produced larger pieces of metal that were removed from the oil by the filter and didn't show up in the analysis. I think it is a really good idea to check the filter every oil change and the suction screen at least every 100 hours (at a minimum) along with doing oil analysis if that is your cup of tea. I think this will provide the best overview of the internal engine condition without going overboard.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
?The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at your own risk."
Ed,
I check for the bad stuff in my filter on every oil change. But my filter is the ADC round 40 u filter, so it's a lot easier. On the last plane/engine, I had a Magneto gear cotter key installed improperly such that it made contact with the inside of the accessory case. The Alum material in the filter made me start looking for engine issues. Fortunately no damage was done.
I check for the bad stuff in my filter on every oil change. But my filter is the ADC round 40 u filter, so it's a lot easier. On the last plane/engine, I had a Magneto gear cotter key installed improperly such that it made contact with the inside of the accessory case. The Alum material in the filter made me start looking for engine issues. Fortunately no damage was done.
i got back my spectrum oil report today. this is the back side with the past history which is very useful. every 30 hrs i am either cutting open the oil filter or doing oil testing.
rocketbob
Well Known Member
Oil analysis in my opinion is worthless. I overhauled an engine last year that turned out to have major problems even though the analysis was coming back ok. The filter, however, was telling a different story. In fact we sent off the oil for analysis even after finding a lot of scoring in a cylinder (broken rings), on top of some other issues just to see what they would say...and it came back ok.
If the trace metals aren't large enough to be caught in the filter there isn't enough happening wrong to worry about.
If the trace metals aren't large enough to be caught in the filter there isn't enough happening wrong to worry about.
Rocketbob,
You are expecting the wrong thing from oil analysis.
You see one size particle in the filter, OA looks at microscopic particles, up to only about 10 or 15 microns. OA tells you you have unusual wear going on, such as a bearing going bad. It will not tell you about a catastrophic failure, such as a part breaking. What you are looking for in OA is a change from previous samples and an indicator of a problem developing.
I wouldn't say it is worthless based on the not finding the wrong failure.
You are expecting the wrong thing from oil analysis.
You see one size particle in the filter, OA looks at microscopic particles, up to only about 10 or 15 microns. OA tells you you have unusual wear going on, such as a bearing going bad. It will not tell you about a catastrophic failure, such as a part breaking. What you are looking for in OA is a change from previous samples and an indicator of a problem developing.
I wouldn't say it is worthless based on the not finding the wrong failure.
rocketbob
Well Known Member
What kind of failure can occur if there's only excessive trace metals in the analysis and nothing in the filter?
eatenbyagrue
Active Member
But does it work...
Does anyone reading this thread have a story about a time where oil analysis actually caught something? I'd be curious to hear where it's made the difference. Just looking at the one posted above, seems like lots of 'normal' variation, so how would you interpret a bad result?
Does anyone reading this thread have a story about a time where oil analysis actually caught something? I'd be curious to hear where it's made the difference. Just looking at the one posted above, seems like lots of 'normal' variation, so how would you interpret a bad result?
When you have a slow wear item going bad, it can be useful. I normally say it takes three bad reports (that don't have major alarming changes) to make a trend and something that should be investigated very seriously. Some thing like a cam lobe going bad normally shows up with increase iron followed by high iron and high aluminum with the iron levels getting higher and higher each time. exhaust valve and guide wear normally shows as high nickel. To me, oil analysis is a trending tool, not a tool that will tell you engine failure is imminent. It may tell you that you have a hole in the induction system with high silicon, valve stem and guide wear with high nickel or that you aren't flying enough with high iron. Sometimes it will warn you that something is going on and you check it out, find the problem, and save some money by finding it early before it turned into something more major. Sometimes it gives you high readings, you check everything and can't find anything and then all it does is give you anxiety until the levels go back down to the averages.
It is a tool that some find helpful and reassuring and that others find worthless. I guess it is up to the individual.
Good Luck,
Mahlon
?The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at your own risk."
turbo
Well Known Member
joshua
it was loaded with fine metal pieces. when i put a magnet on it it looked like a fuzz ball. i was all ready and prepared to sell the old engine and buy a new thunderbolt from lycomig which i did. OA is not for everyone but i enjoy seeing the results every 60hrs now. here are a few picks of the final oil filter. safe flying hope you make TBO too. turbo
i started this post and believe that not many use OA. when my first engine started getting up past TBO i started using OA. the hobbs finally when to 3,150 hrs[ = to 2,600 tach time] before the cam lifter started making metal. the two things i was concerned with was a valve head breaking off and the cam/ lifter wearing out. i did the wobble tests, comps over 74/80, and rolled the dice on the valves holding out. i finally picked up and increase in iron on a OA, 25 hrs later i cut open the oil filter and my jaw dropped.
it was loaded with fine metal pieces. when i put a magnet on it it looked like a fuzz ball. i was all ready and prepared to sell the old engine and buy a new thunderbolt from lycomig which i did. OA is not for everyone but i enjoy seeing the results every 60hrs now. here are a few picks of the final oil filter. safe flying hope you make TBO too. turbo
snoop9erdog
Well Known Member
Good Info
Ed,
Thanks for the report. I'm particularly interested in OA due the fact that I recently picked up a IO-360 L2A from Penn Yan. It has 1970 hrs since new, 1000 hrs since overhaul (overhauled at 970 hrs due to prop strike, not sudden stoppage, and then ran fine after teardow/overhaul for 1000 hrs). It was taken off a newer 172R due to TT, but was running perfectly fine. I have all records since new.
I figure that this engine with the work that Penn Yan did on the cylinders, should run at minimum a few hundred hours and possibly another 1000 hrs before a needed overhaul.
I'd like to use OA for the sole purpose of creating a trend and to to be able to catch a change whenever that might occur. I have a lot to learn of course, but believe that it will be useful info. Yours is a perfect example.
Just couldn't bring myself to spend 22-26K on a new Lyc, especially when the operating life of these engines typically run (with overhaul) thousands of hours. More power to those who can afford that
Thanks for the info
Ed,
Thanks for the report. I'm particularly interested in OA due the fact that I recently picked up a IO-360 L2A from Penn Yan. It has 1970 hrs since new, 1000 hrs since overhaul (overhauled at 970 hrs due to prop strike, not sudden stoppage, and then ran fine after teardow/overhaul for 1000 hrs). It was taken off a newer 172R due to TT, but was running perfectly fine. I have all records since new.
I figure that this engine with the work that Penn Yan did on the cylinders, should run at minimum a few hundred hours and possibly another 1000 hrs before a needed overhaul.
I'd like to use OA for the sole purpose of creating a trend and to to be able to catch a change whenever that might occur. I have a lot to learn of course, but believe that it will be useful info. Yours is a perfect example.
Just couldn't bring myself to spend 22-26K on a new Lyc, especially when the operating life of these engines typically run (with overhaul) thousands of hours. More power to those who can afford that
Thanks for the info
Mike Busch
Having listened to Mike's seminars at Oshkosh I can honestly say his opinions and advice run much truer than most of the amateur posts on the forums. See below:
At each oil change, it's essential to change the oil filter and cut open the old filter for inspection. We also strongly recommend sending an oil sample to Blackstone Laboratories in Ft. Wayne, Indiana, for oil analysis. Although there are a number of different labs that do such analysis, we think Blackstone is head and shoulders above the rest, and we urge our clients to use this lab exclusively.
Web Page: http://blog.savvymx.com/search?q=Oil+analysis
He feels stongly about OA and I've never heard any (good) reason to think differently. If you don't want the very best information about the condition of the engine flying you (and your family?) over that next mountain range, then who cares..... but don't recommend that cavalier approach to others looking for good advice. The engine builders I know feel the same way.
By the way, his other top recommendations are to either have excellent instrumentation, preferably with data recording capability to analyze what's going on or to pay more attention to the use of a borescope at regular intervals. He helps clients and seminar attendees get well, well over TBO out of their engines safely with these techniques. Sure, there may be that one odd case where an engine fails without any warnings but seriously, how often does that happen? I wanna know.......
Your opinions will obviously vary. Just don't forget to tell your passengers what shortcuts you take with your engine analysis before they fly with you.
Having listened to Mike's seminars at Oshkosh I can honestly say his opinions and advice run much truer than most of the amateur posts on the forums. See below:
At each oil change, it's essential to change the oil filter and cut open the old filter for inspection. We also strongly recommend sending an oil sample to Blackstone Laboratories in Ft. Wayne, Indiana, for oil analysis. Although there are a number of different labs that do such analysis, we think Blackstone is head and shoulders above the rest, and we urge our clients to use this lab exclusively.
Web Page: http://blog.savvymx.com/search?q=Oil+analysis
He feels stongly about OA and I've never heard any (good) reason to think differently. If you don't want the very best information about the condition of the engine flying you (and your family?) over that next mountain range, then who cares..... but don't recommend that cavalier approach to others looking for good advice. The engine builders I know feel the same way.
By the way, his other top recommendations are to either have excellent instrumentation, preferably with data recording capability to analyze what's going on or to pay more attention to the use of a borescope at regular intervals. He helps clients and seminar attendees get well, well over TBO out of their engines safely with these techniques. Sure, there may be that one odd case where an engine fails without any warnings but seriously, how often does that happen? I wanna know.......
Your opinions will obviously vary. Just don't forget to tell your passengers what shortcuts you take with your engine analysis before they fly with you.
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