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Is there a safe way to refuel from jugs?

T

tinman

Well Known Member
I have seen people refuel from plastic and metal jugs. Is there a safe way to do this? I live in SC where the humidity is so high that static buildup isn't as much of a problem as it might be for people living in dryer climates...

Any best practices?
Any land mines to avoid?
 
I make it a practice to touch the plane with your hand and the tip of the can prior to filling it.
 
Several years ago there was an article in Sport Aviation reporting research on this. They had a meter that measured the charge in the container and found that even letting plastic jugs sit for a couple weeks the charge did not dissipate. Voltages induced from filling were pretty darn high.

Their assessment was that grounded metal cans were the safest. Secondly, they found that if you wipe down plastic jugs with a wet cotton cloth, it would eliminate the charge created when the jug was filled or from sloshing around when you traveled with the jugs filled. You need to wipe down the spout, too. They considered this to be safe. Lastly, ungrounded metal cans were the least safe.
 
I know a bunch of old ultralight fliers. What they did was to drill a hole (3/16?) in the top of the gas can and put a bolt and nut with a rubber washer and area washer on both sides to seal the hole. the then made up a length of wire with small battery clamps on each end. Clamp one to the nut on the can and one to the airframe.
 
I may be doing this all wrong but I have a small diameter flexable steel cable that I loop through the handle of the plastic fuel can. The other end has a small steel weight and is always in contact with the ground. So far so good.
 
risk?

Are there any documented instances of fires being started from pouring 5 gal of gas into something from a plastic can?

I understand the theroretical risk. Static charges. Sparks, etc. I've just never heard of anything actually happening.
The gas station also advises me to not use my cell phone while I pump. But I can't imagine that if gas was really that explosive, that a cell phone could set it off, there's NO WAY the general public would be allowed to handle it all all.

PS - been pouring gas into stuff for 25 +years - tractors, airplanes, boats, cars, lawn equipment, etc. I've NEVER grounded it and I've never blown myself up - or even seen a spark.
 
How do you ground plastic?

I understand that the plastic with the fuel moving through it sort of acts like a capacitor...my question would then be how does one ground a "non-conductor" like plastic? It makes sense that you could attach a ground wire from a metal jug to the airframe, but what good would attaching a ground wire to a plastic jug do? Does the plastic actually conduct to some extent? Would it be of any use to shove an aluminum rod down the fill spout then insert this rod into the fuel tank hole and allow the fuel to flow over the rod as it passes from the jug to the tank? This has me baffled...
 
Actual Risks...

Have any of you read "51 Charlie" ? It is a great book about life at a general aviation airport. There is a story in the book about a gent who was draining the fuel tank into a container which resulted in what I believe to be described as "St Elmo's Fire" dancing between the two containers. The whole mess exploded and burned down a hangar. I may have the details wrong as it has been a long time since I read it. The book is a fantastic read and probably describes what goes on around 90% of our small fields.

I personally know of a gent who had a fire while refueling and lost his plane and had some nasty burns on his arms to boot...there is a risk which is why I am trying to understand what is going on and how to prevent any bad things...
 
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Jeff, I dunno about pouring things into tanks from a plastic jug, but there have been fires caused by static discharge while defueling airplanes. All the principles are the same, the difference being the fuel falls through the air further during most defueling.

FWIW, I use a homemade defuel rig made up from a metal funnel and stranded copper wire. One lead clips to the airplane, another (with the insulation stripped) is submerged in the fuel inside the catch container, and a third is grounded. All of them tie to the metal funnel. Everything maintains the same potential. If you really, really wanted to be safe, the same principle would work for fueling.
 
fueling

Clearly, the safest way to do it is with all the new, ventless, spill-proof, spring-loaded snout, dang near impossible-to-pour-out-of-cans that are now the only choice when you go buy one. (its too bad there is no "sarcasm font"....)

A man can't go into a Lowes and just buy a regular ol' gas can anymore.

CDE
 
Eons ago when the usenet existed and that was the only place for forums, there was a report from a guy who had a fire while fueling his plane from a plastic jug. Pretty scary writeup. I reprinted it in our EAA chapter newsletter, but can't find it now. Anyway, these kinds of fires can happen.

Strange though, the millions of times folks refuel their lawn mowers, ATV's, etc. and we never hear of a fire. What is possible isn't necessarily common. Just consider the risks vs. probabilities vs. the impacts. If I get a fire refueling my log splitter, I might burn down my barn with my tractor and a few other things. If I get a fire refueling my airplane in the hangar, there are 9 other planes in the hangar row to burn.

I refuel the plane outside the hangar.
 
NASCAR

Every Sunday I watch 43 racecars fuel 6 or 7 times each, under the most hurried and sloppy conditions, sometimes with brake rotors glowing red. And nothing seems to happen. Perhaps this "danger" thing is an urban myth?

Bill Newkirk
 
minimize the risk

It is a simple thing to minimize the risk by not fueling when inside the hangar. This is usually not a problem cause the airplane is either arriving or departing anyway. Just do it outside.

Bevan
 
N13BN said:
Every Sunday I watch 43 racecars fuel 6 or 7 times each, under the most hurried and sloppy conditions, sometimes with brake rotors glowing red. And nothing seems to happen. Perhaps this "danger" thing is an urban myth?

Bill Newkirk
Click to expand...

I have no idea if the plastic can/static charge is really a killer or not, but the NASCAR guys use (or used to use) a metal can, so there is a difference.....
 
not trying to change the thread to much, but kinda along the same line.

I heard something a while back about stored gas going bad faster in plastic gas cans than in metal cans. Has anyone else heard any info on this?
 
i haven't heard anything, but it would seem to make some sense, don't know the exact difference though. i would hope a metal can is more impermeable than a plastic one, and usually the most volatile parts in fuel are the fastest to evaporate and the most important in the knock/ antiknock ratings. I don't think it really matters enough. buy the fuel, then burn it!
 
Greater fuel loss with plastic cans

Pallet said:
not trying to change the thread to much, but kinda along the same line.

I heard something a while back about stored gas going bad faster in plastic gas cans than in metal cans. Has anyone else heard any info on this?
Click to expand...

I don't know about going bad, but I had fuel loss recently. Last winter I purchased 42 gallons of fuel when prices were low [$1.68 per gallon] I stored this fuel in six 5 gallon plastic fuel cans, purchased at Home Depot. I also stored 12 gallons of it in two NATO steel cans. I added StaBil to the fuel in all 8 cans and placed the cans up into my shop's loft.
I purchased the fuel to ensure that I would have a hurricane emergency supply for my generator. I live in SE Florida. Over the past month, I started using this fuel in my car, as the likelihood of a hurricane this year in Florida has past. In three of the six plastic cans, the fuel had partially evaporated and/or vented. This was due to a less than perfect seal between the plastic cap and the plastic can. It was also exacerbated by the high heat we experience during the summer months here. The heat caused the cans to pressurize, spilling fuel out of the poorly sealed plastic cans. I lost between 2 quarts and 2 gallons of fuel on three of the six plastic cans. The two steel NATO cans had considerable pressure in them, but not one drop of fuel had escaped.
This is not scientific, just my personal data point.
Charlie Kuss
 
N13BN said:
Every Sunday I watch 43 racecars fuel 6 or 7 times each, under the most hurried and sloppy conditions, sometimes with brake rotors glowing red. And nothing seems to happen. Perhaps this "danger" thing is an urban myth?
Click to expand...
I don't know much about technical details of NASCAR.

F1 uses pressurized fueling rigs (3 gal/sec) with a vent return line as well, so there are normally no vapors to ignite. There are large flexible grounding strips that make contact with conductive parts on the bottom of the car as they enter the pits. Fires occur mostly when drivers take off with the fuel hose attached (dooh!). There is always a crew member with a large CO2 fire fighting nozzle (not a handheld fire bottle) at the rear of the car. Still, spiled fuel almost always ignites due to the very hot exhaust of the car that comes out the top, right next to the fuel rig connection.

LeMans series cars use unpressurized (gravity flow) fuel rigs, but nobody is allowed to work on the car while fueling occurs. Full nomex and goggles are a rule - no safety glasses, no exposed skin. Many cars are also diesel, reducing fire danger.

My take aways: Ground the aircraft and fuel cans, have a fire bottle handy, and have someone watching for fire.

TODR
 
chaskuss said:
I don't know about going bad, but I had fuel loss recently. Last winter I purchased 42 gallons of fuel when prices were low [$1.68 per gallon] I stored this fuel in six 5 gallon plastic fuel cans, purchased at Home Depot. I also stored 12 gallons of it in two NATO steel cans. I added StaBil to the fuel in all 8 cans and placed the cans up into my shop's loft.
I purchased the fuel to ensure that I would have a hurricane emergency supply for my generator. I live in SE Florida. Over the past month, I started using this fuel in my car, as the likelihood of a hurricane this year in Florida has past. In three of the six plastic cans, the fuel had partially evaporated and/or vented. This was due to a less than perfect seal between the plastic cap and the plastic can. It was also exacerbated by the high heat we experience during the summer months here. The heat caused the cans to pressurize, spilling fuel out of the poorly sealed plastic cans. I lost between 2 quarts and 2 gallons of fuel on three of the six plastic cans. The two steel NATO cans had considerable pressure in them, but not one drop of fuel had escaped.
This is not scientific, just my personal data point.
Charlie Kuss
Click to expand...

I have some plastic gas cans that are not vented and the spout stores inside the can. If the can gets pressurized either by heat or motion, the gas will be forced up through the submerged spout and overflow out the top. Now I never store the spout inside the can - always outside with the cap on. That lets fumes escape relieving the pressure without spilling gas.
 
JDRhodes said:
Are there any documented instances of fires being started from pouring 5 gal of gas into something from a plastic can?

I understand the theroretical risk. Static charges. Sparks, etc. I've just never heard of anything actually happening.
The gas station also advises me to not use my cell phone while I pump. But I can't imagine that if gas was really that explosive, that a cell phone could set it off, there's NO WAY the general public would be allowed to handle it all all.

PS - been pouring gas into stuff for 25 +years - tractors, airplanes, boats, cars, lawn equipment, etc. I've NEVER grounded it and I've never blown myself up - or even seen a spark.
Click to expand...

About 6 years ago, my father was topping off the tanks in his 310 with 100LL stored in his hangar in 5-6 gallon plastic jugs (to top off for big trips, as the fuel at Aurora is pretty expensive). I wasn't there...but I've seen the scars. Somehow a spark from static electricity ignited the vapors around him, and flashed in his face. 2nd & 3rd degree burns on his hands and face.

Generally this happens in low humidity areas...not georgia. The cold of northern climates makes the air really dry and encourages static electricity build up. Certain types of clothing can encourage the build up as well. If I remember right...he was wearing a jacket which also got charred.

It may not happen in 25 years...but tomorrow could be the day. Ground your cans, and ground yourself. My father did this for probably 20+ years also before this incident. Now...he doesn't even like to fill the lawn mower.
 
I remember one time I filled my plastic jugs with 100LL, and as I carried the cans to my pickup, I could feel the static charge lift the hair on my legs. I wiped them down with a wet cotton rag before filling my plane.

One thing to be aware of, is that gas fumes are heavier than air. I once thew some gas on a slash pile and lit it, standing on the downhill side. Whoosh! and I had a flash of flame go around me and about 5 feet downhill from me. Fortunately, it was just an instantaneous flash and there were no injuries and nothing was scorched.

So stand on the upwind or uphill side when refueling from jugs.
 
Mr. Funnel/Anti-Static

When I flew overseas we regularly re-fueled our 206's in the field from Gerry cans. Even in the humid jungle vapors are as much of an issue as static electricity as Richard mentions above (the vapors track the terrain to a low point where they can ignite from camp-fire, cigarette butt etc. hundreds of feet away).

We used Mr. Funnel anti-static fuel filters/funnels and to the best of my knowledge never had an accident with several hundred A/C in 26 countries (e.g. fire). These funnels have a conductive carbon material in the plastic (read the Mr. Funnel sheet below) which theoretically and from my experience in practice grounds the jug/Gerry can when you touch it. We never had fires after thousands of re-fueling operations in every environment possible from desert (Mali) to Indonesia. These are great filters with special plastic that is anti-static with stainless steel standpipe filter mechanism.

I plan on keeping one in my 8 when flying.

Here's a link to PDF sheet on the unit:

aerosafe.com/media/MrFunnelLiterature.pdf

Just Google "Mr. Funnel" to find a source. I know they're on Amazon for about $30. Here is the model I think we used: Mr. Funnel Fuel Filter #F8C
 
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I have

been fueling from plastic jugs for four years now (in Alaska winter as well), I do most of whats been mentioned plus
Fire extinguisher handy
Leave the last bit of fule in the jug (dregs)

Andrew
 
Since I didn't read anybody actually answered it.... I'll try, and try to be clear (emphasis on "try").

Plastic jugs, even though they are "non-conductive" (as posted earlier), will build up a pretty significant charge, and rapidly. Just think back to you physics class and rubbing the silk on the glass rod, both being "non-conductive".

Now when you get the empty fuel tank (full of fumes) on a metal aircraft next to a highly charged plastic jug, the potential for disaster is high.

What needs to be done is eliminate the voltage potential difference between the jug and plane. A wire between the jug and plane should do it. If there is a wire connecting the two, then there can not be a spark. This is the same as the ground wire between the fuel truck and the plane. Note that neither is grounded to an "earth ground", just grounded to each other.



(Hopefully not being redundant)
 
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