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W-716 Pushrods Too Short? Seriously?

S

Stalldog

Well Known Member
Now that I just finished building my W-716's exactly to plan, I come in to research another issue and find that everyone says that building the pushrods to plans actually makes them come out too short! And drawing measurements are given in 1/32nds. And that Van's knows about this but hasn't updated their drawings? Seriously? After spending 1/2 a day to get them built per plans?

I hate to order another tube and ends and pay "cheap" shipping costs, but I guess if I have to I have to. Is there any other solution?

If VAF is the required supplement to Van's drawings in order to build one of these, maybe Van's needs to be paying DR accordingly. Sorry, folks, but I'm ticked off. I have a hard enough time finding time to work on my build, and wasting that time and $$$ is not an uplifting experience.

Again, any other solution? Thanks.
 
Rotten luck

As long as you are going to be ordering parts, can I add some stuff to your order and save myself some shipping costs? :D

Just kidding. Thought I might try to lighten the mood :eek:

I would just keep going. If they are short when you fit the wings, deal with it then.
 
This seems to work for me...

Hi Stalldog,

Yes, I've found it very frustrating too. However, what I do now before I cut or drill a hole into anything, I first go thru and search VAF to see if I should actually make the parts to print. I've seen enough errors to where I don't trust the plans any more. Search on the part number and/or the name of the part. I also do a Google search of the same things so I can find various builders sites that discuss the operation in question.

Yes, it's a pain to do this. However, I've found that by doing the searches, it has saved me a ton of time and money by not making "bad" parts. Another benefit of doing this is you can see how other people have tackled the same problem. I've picked up plenty of useful tips which have made my build an easier process.

I hope this helps.

Jeff
 
Thanks!

Thanks, bud, I needed a good laugh, and that gave me one!!! I can probably just run down to Air Parts in Merriam and get another tube, but the rod ends will have to come from Van's. At least if I order them they are light and small.

Yeah, I might just do as you suggest and wait. Of course I have an urge right now to take them out to the back yard and wrap them around the nearest oak. It just frustrates the heck out of me that Van's knows about issues like this and does nothing about it. Of course, they make money selling more parts.

I'll be better in the morning, but I'll probably take a break tomorrow from working on the build. :D Maybe the weather will be good this weekend so I can go flying.
 
Jeff, you're probably right, and I normally check VAF to see what's happening, but heck the plans were in 1/32's -- how far off could they be and not be updated for so long? Maybe I'll just cut 1/2" off each wing and call it good! :D
 
I too built mine to plans RIGHT before I read that they may be too short.:mad: As another poster suggested, I decided to wait until I fit the wings to pass final judgement.

Maybe this thread needs to be moved to the new "gotchas" section?
 
Here's a vote for just waiting until mounting the wings, etc. I built mine exactly to plans, and everything was fine.

No need to panic yet :)
 
Same here. Built those rods to plan and all fine. However, I did notice that the short rod between the two sticks was too short when set per plan length. It made the two control sticks point outboard slightly. I adjusted that connecting rod to make the sticks parallel. This adjustment would allow slightly shorter W-716s (by a few threads).

With the short distances involved at the bottom of the stick weldment, maybe what I saw was just variation in the pivot and ball joint hole positions.
 
I had to order a new tube since one of mine was bad from the factory (error in the extrusion), the shipping wasnt expensive at all. They sell replacements in 6' lengths, so you dont have to buy the 12' one that came with the kit, at least the -6 kit.
 
LettersFromFlyoverCountry said:
I think the shipping charges for the new tubes was something like $80.
Click to expand...

Dang, Bob, I didn't think it would cost THAT much for shipping! WOW! That makes my idea of cutting 1/2" off each wing sound more likely. :D

From what others have said I'll wait until the rest is built and see how they fit up.

If Van's would at least change their instructions and have the fuselage ends be left unfinished until later this would be a moot point.
 
I built mine to the plans and all came out good. Do not panic yet.:)
Merry Christmas

Dave RV7A
 
Why?

So probably a dumb question, but why are some okay and some off by a half inch or so? For dimension set in 32nds, that's a lot of difference, especially given the predrilling of the parts.
 
Extra nut

It was suggested to me that an extra nut would have the same effect as lengthening the pushtubes. The intent is to prevent one bearing from backing out. For one bearing to back out the other bearing has to screw into the pushtubes. By placing an extra nut on each end of the pushtubes you reduce the number of threads available to screw into the end of the pushtubes. Kind of like lengthening the pushtubes by the width of two nuts.

Just another option, YMMV and you should build to your comfort level.
 
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Built per plans

I built mine per plans (2003) and everything fit fine. No issues.
 
I have found that they are very close to the minimum but if you are concerned when the time comes to final adjust, you might consider replacing the rod end bearings with the longer ones on one end of the push rod. Use the bottom rudder bearing part number, it is longer and will give the extra thread depth. I think there is a few out there done this way.
Just a thought. Larry
 
Response from Van's

Both Scott and Gus at Van's responded to the e-mail I sent. They both indicated that most builds come out okay when the pushrods are built per plan and to wait until my final fitup to see if I really have a problem, and they also indicated that they make an additional rod end that can increase the length by 1/4" per end, so 1/2" if both ends are replaced. For those that follow the part number for the longer rod end is BEARING MM-3M-42.

So, all is not lost like I had originally thought and hopefully mine will fit as built. In hindsight, I could have easily just finished the aileron end, cut the tube a little longer, and finished the inboard end later during final fit. It would then be a non-issue. Time to do more thinking and less plan following. As others have said, the next one will be a lot easier.
 
Stalldog said:
In hindsight, I could have easily just finished the aileron end, cut the tube a little longer, and finished the inboard end later during final fit. It would then be a non-issue. Time to do more thinking and less plan following. As others have said, the next one will be a lot easier.
Click to expand...

This is a great lesson for everyone to learn in airplane building Jim - and it applies to kits other than just those from Van's. "Never cut until you HAVE to, never drill until you HAVE to, never rivet until you HAVE to - you can never be sure what comes down the line, and you might learn something and have a different understanding of the process later on - so don't commit until you can no longer move forward until you commit. It takes more clecos (leaving things undone), but leaves you more options.
 
Happy Holidays all!

One thing to remember is that these are not "production" airplanes and everything is somewhat made to fit. If you built one of the 1990's kits you will understand without question. The current "kit" has a lot done for you but you are still building your own airplane that will be a little different than the next. As Paul said, don't cut something until you have to- which means that there are enough other pieces to verify sizes, etc. :)
 
Thanks

Thanks, fellas, good words to remember. I'd like to say I've learned my lesson, but you know what they say about teaching an old dog? :rolleyes:

I'd better go back in the kitchen -- wife says there are more pots and pans to wash! She sure uses a lot when she cooks! :D

Merry Christmas to everyone!
 
Remember: "Don't wash any pots and pans until you HAVE too. Don't dry any pots and pans until you HAVE too". Merry Xmas :)
 
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