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W-414 aileron hinge flush rivet

Blain

Well Known Member
Assembling the hinge on my -8 QB wings.
The W414 is the outboard aileron hinge and plans show that the flush rivet head goes to the outboard side. That would put the shop head on the aileron side.
Seems the flush side should be to the aileron and the shop head to the wingtip.
The inboard hinge has the flush side "outboard" which is the aileron side.

Mistake on drawings or am I missing something?
 
I just went out to the shop and checked my left wing, with the aileron still installed, and the shop heads of those two rivets are on the inboard (aileron) side of the bracket. There's no interference with the aileron, it's not even close. Mine is a slow build -7 but I'd bet you a case of your favorite beverage that it's the same on a QB -8.;)
 
i agree

the rivet would have more clearence if reversed there is only one washer on the inside but three on the outside of the bracket, it doesn"t really matter though as all the rvs have it the way the blue print shows. i reversed mine on the 7 but my 4 has it the way the blue print shows
 
Outboard Aileron hinge nearly contacts shop head of the W-414 hinge?

Assembling the hinge on my -8 QB wings.
The W414 is the outboard aileron hinge and plans show that the flush rivet head goes to the outboard side. That would put the shop head on the aileron side.
Seems the flush side should be to the aileron and the shop head to the wingtip.
The inboard hinge has the flush side "outboard" which is the aileron side.

Mistake on drawings or am I missing something?

I'm not surprised to find a thread on this one my outboard aileron hinge is dangerously close to interfering with the inboard facing shop head on the w-414 hinge... Clearly the shop head should go outboard, which is the side with the larger washer stack.. This would apply to the 2 countersunk 426 rivets only? Ref. DWG 10A dated 04/2000 with an unrelated revision in 2003.... Looks like I'll drill it out countersink the inboard side and double flush it.... :cool:

The manufacturer IMHO is amazing but how about updating a print once a decade.. There are numerous drawing errors throughout, many are well known....:confused:

Anyone building aile hinges consider flipping the 426 rivets to have the shop heads outboard...
 
I'm not surprised to find a thread on this one my outboard aileron hinge is dangerously close to interfering with the inboard facing shop head on the w-414 hinge... Clearly the shop head should go outboard, which is the side with the larger washer stack.. This would apply to the 2 countersunk 426 rivets only? Ref. DWG 10A dated 04/2000 with an unrelated revision in 2003.... Looks like I'll drill it out countersink the inboard side and double flush it.... :cool:

The manufacturer IMHO is amazing but how about updating a print once a decade.. There are numerous drawing errors throughout, many are well known....:confused:

Anyone building aile hinges consider flipping the 426 rivets to have the shop heads outboard...

If the parts go together as intended, the shop heads are best on the inside (as the drawings specify).
Sometimes the hinge bracket gets assembled with a slight curve in it (because of what happens to the thick material when it is CNC punched, or when the bracket gets riveted to the tip rib and rear spar, it is not exactly parallel. to the rib.
Either one of these will cause the hinge point (where the bear is located) to fall in a slightly different location than intended.

The design intent is for more space (and spacer washers) on the inboard side of the bracket.
 
If the parts go together as intended, the shop heads are best on the inside (as the drawings specify).
Sometimes the hinge bracket gets assembled with a slight curve in it (because of what happens to the thick material when it is CNC punched, or when the bracket gets riveted to the tip rib and rear spar, it is not exactly parallel. to the rib.
Either one of these will cause the hinge point (where the bear is located) to fall in a slightly different location than intended.

The design intent is for more space (and spacer washers) on the inboard side of the bracket.

I disagree! The drawing clearly shows more washers or a spacer outboard. The W414 is not curved at assembly. The AN 426 rivets should be flush inboard with the shop head outboard... DWG 10A shows one AN 460-10 washer inboard which is approximately the same dim. as the shop head or 1.5 D of the 470-4 rivet also facing inboard..this equals interference. My airplane is square and assembled as intended.

Talked to a vans today they agree this has come up many times and that the drawing should be corrected with the shop heads outboard!

There is one other issue here with the location of the pre punched holes for the w-414 hinge support angle. These hole are miss punched too far inboard about .020-.040 which causes this outboard hinge to angle in slightly... Others have noted this but this not the cause for the issue stated in this thread...
 
Answer from Vans

Per Joe B. at Van's support,

"After reading and re-reading this note (on the plans), it's a bit ambiguous. The countersink needs to happen on the Inboard side of the bracket. DWG 13A, Section B-B shows why that is, due to tight clearances.

This looks like a copy/paste error that got through. Surprise it took this long to come up... ;-)"

There you have it -- countersink the inboard side of the bracket so that the flush head is against the aileron.
 
I just built my 2016-delivered QB aileron brackets per the plans. According to this thread, the plans are wrong.

I specifically looked for plan updates before building the brackets. Nothing regarding these rivets.

Do I need to order new brackets? My shop heads are inboard.
 
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W414 rivet

I'm not surprised to find a thread on this one my outboard aileron hinge is dangerously close to interfering with the inboard facing shop head on the w-414 hinge... Clearly the shop head should go outboard, which is the side with the larger washer stack.. This would apply to the 2 countersunk 426 rivets only? Ref. DWG 10A dated 04/2000 with an unrelated revision in 2003.... Looks like I'll drill it out countersink the inboard side and double flush it.... :cool:

The manufacturer IMHO is amazing but how about updating a print once a decade.. There are numerous drawing errors throughout, many are well known....:confused:

Anyone building aile hinges consider flipping the 426 rivets to have the shop heads outboard...

I had the same issue. One rivet shop head was way too close for comfort. I drilled, countersinked and double flush riveted it.
 
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