Van's Air Force
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Advice Needed: scattering ashes from an RV-7 Tip-UP
- Thread starter gciampa
- Start date
Please accept my advice with the utmost respect...
The probability of a proper, respectul dispersion is not great. Read the attached link. If over inland waters, compliance with the Clean Air Act is required and a permit is required. Offshore beyond three miles is ok. There is a great probability you will return with ash on your body, in your aircraft, or stuck to the outboard skin by either oil present or electrical static charge. If it was a recent funeral, emotions are still high and anything but success would possibly trigger a bad reaction or bad memory.
http://www.flyingmag.com/scattering-ashes?page=0,2
It seems more appropriate to use a boat in this case if at all possible. And, of course there are professional services available for a couple hundred dollars.
With deepest sympathy,
Sincerely,
The probability of a proper, respectul dispersion is not great. Read the attached link. If over inland waters, compliance with the Clean Air Act is required and a permit is required. Offshore beyond three miles is ok. There is a great probability you will return with ash on your body, in your aircraft, or stuck to the outboard skin by either oil present or electrical static charge. If it was a recent funeral, emotions are still high and anything but success would possibly trigger a bad reaction or bad memory.
http://www.flyingmag.com/scattering-ashes?page=0,2
It seems more appropriate to use a boat in this case if at all possible. And, of course there are professional services available for a couple hundred dollars.
With deepest sympathy,
Sincerely,
LifeofReiley
Well Known Member
I don't see this working in a tip-up or slider. Rent a C-150 and have a few RV's flying West in formation with you. Sorry for your loss.
RBD
Well Known Member
I agree with Reiley, do it from a rented Cessna. I just don't see this working well from the RV.
Regarding the method: I read somewhere about using a piece of pipe and a funnel. Crack the door of the plane so that you can extend the pipe (PVC ought to work) out into the airstream. The end of the pipe in the airstream will create a vacuum to suck the ashes through the pipe. Use the funnel...well, as a funnel.
Good on you for trying help honor your buddy's fathers wishes.
Regarding the method: I read somewhere about using a piece of pipe and a funnel. Crack the door of the plane so that you can extend the pipe (PVC ought to work) out into the airstream. The end of the pipe in the airstream will create a vacuum to suck the ashes through the pipe. Use the funnel...well, as a funnel.
Good on you for trying help honor your buddy's fathers wishes.
N941WR
Legacy Member
I have a friend who used to do the "burial at sea" thing but used his T6 or Stearman, depending on the wishes of the deceased.
The above post is correct; you and your plane will be wearing most of the ashes.
My friend's solution was to put the ashes in a plain brown paper bag and staple it shut. Three miles off shore he would (respectfully) pitch the bag over the side, note the lat and long and head back to shore.
If a family member wanted he would take one of them with him and let them have the honors.
With our planes, it is really not possible to get the ashes overboard unless you rig some type of bomb rack. (Search on this topic, it has been discussed in deal before.) Your best bet is to rent a boat or a Cessna.
The above post is correct; you and your plane will be wearing most of the ashes.
My friend's solution was to put the ashes in a plain brown paper bag and staple it shut. Three miles off shore he would (respectfully) pitch the bag over the side, note the lat and long and head back to shore.
If a family member wanted he would take one of them with him and let them have the honors.
With our planes, it is really not possible to get the ashes overboard unless you rig some type of bomb rack. (Search on this topic, it has been discussed in deal before.) Your best bet is to rent a boat or a Cessna.
RickWoodall
Well Known Member
Ice Pilots
If you want a good laugh and some great aviation shows, google ICE PILOTS they did a whole series this year on the buffalo air boys way up in northern Canada flying old planes from the 40s and 50s today. Last episode (all available on line) was one for a guy thats dad was an old dc mechanic and wished to have his ashes scattered. Its a great great clip if you dont mind some cowboys getting the job done. Funny stuff.
If you want a good laugh and some great aviation shows, google ICE PILOTS they did a whole series this year on the buffalo air boys way up in northern Canada flying old planes from the 40s and 50s today. Last episode (all available on line) was one for a guy thats dad was an old dc mechanic and wished to have his ashes scattered. Its a great great clip if you dont mind some cowboys getting the job done. Funny stuff.
instructor_bill
Well Known Member
I've done scatter hops
I've done air burrials before in c172's. My long-ago-boss at the flight school I taught at, had a rig purpose built specifically for the task.
The chute was essentially a hopper attached to a long, bent 6 inch diameter pipe sticking into the airstream that had to be hung on an open window on the 172. It still tended to clog if too many ashes were poured into the hopper at once.
The whole operation wasn't that easy, and the tendency to have ashes cyclone around the cockpit was high with improper technique. No ashes usually were stuck to the airplane.
All that being said-- there aren't any real similarities between the 7 tipup and a 172. A special rig can be made. If you built your airplane, you can certainly build a scattering rig, but you'd be better off using a high wing rental with an opening window.
I've done air burrials before in c172's. My long-ago-boss at the flight school I taught at, had a rig purpose built specifically for the task.
The chute was essentially a hopper attached to a long, bent 6 inch diameter pipe sticking into the airstream that had to be hung on an open window on the 172. It still tended to clog if too many ashes were poured into the hopper at once.
The whole operation wasn't that easy, and the tendency to have ashes cyclone around the cockpit was high with improper technique. No ashes usually were stuck to the airplane.
All that being said-- there aren't any real similarities between the 7 tipup and a 172. A special rig can be made. If you built your airplane, you can certainly build a scattering rig, but you'd be better off using a high wing rental with an opening window.
John Clark
Well Known Member
Purpose built...
I saw this some time ago and replicated the device for use on my 8. I mounted it between the wheel fairing and the gear leg. Some PVC tubing, hinges, a spring, and a pull cable release. I fished the release cable through the vent opening. No mods to the airplane. As Dan said, respectful, reliable, and neat. The friend that I scattered was a very creative homebuilder and I'm sure would have approved of the device.
John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
I saw this some time ago and replicated the device for use on my 8. I mounted it between the wheel fairing and the gear leg. Some PVC tubing, hinges, a spring, and a pull cable release. I fished the release cable through the vent opening. No mods to the airplane. As Dan said, respectful, reliable, and neat. The friend that I scattered was a very creative homebuilder and I'm sure would have approved of the device.
John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
instructor_bill
Well Known Member
give it a shot
totally agree, but at the time-- what did I know? I can remember saying, "there's got to be a better way to do this." The closest thing I can figure though, is that there isn't a better way to accomplish the task and then use the airplane 20 minutes later to learn crosswind landings, stalls, and steep turns. It's what worked for a small flight school with 7 airplanes on the line.
You do have to deal with the fact that technically you'd need a permit (I think that my boss' business had a special license authorizing the business scatter ashes. Not sure if it would apply in your state or even if a person could do it without a license if that individual was not doing it for profit.)
If you can build a wing mounted rig that screws into the tiedown or a gear leg mount with a simple release mechanism and spring loaded front and rear traps, then a 7 tip-up has no limitations.
Best bet is a purpose-built canister device mounted well out in the airstream. Respectful, reliable, neat.
totally agree, but at the time-- what did I know? I can remember saying, "there's got to be a better way to do this." The closest thing I can figure though, is that there isn't a better way to accomplish the task and then use the airplane 20 minutes later to learn crosswind landings, stalls, and steep turns. It's what worked for a small flight school with 7 airplanes on the line.
You do have to deal with the fact that technically you'd need a permit (I think that my boss' business had a special license authorizing the business scatter ashes. Not sure if it would apply in your state or even if a person could do it without a license if that individual was not doing it for profit.)
If you can build a wing mounted rig that screws into the tiedown or a gear leg mount with a simple release mechanism and spring loaded front and rear traps, then a 7 tip-up has no limitations.
Jkkinz
Well Known Member
Years ago I had a friend try to spread the ashes of a fellow pilot over Tampa Bay. He thought he would just release them out of the side vent window on his Piper. As you can imagine he spent the next 2 hours vacuuming the ashes out of the cockpit and off him to later spread from a boat. Needless to say he never volunteered to do an airplane release again.
I'm sorry that older post was deleted John, but I'm glad it helped. I suppose the subject made someone uncomfortable.
This is all about predictable dignity. I designed and built the original for the families of two Tuskegee Airmen. Their request involved an accurate low altitude release at the opening ceremony of the new museum at Moton Field...which meant, in addition to family, many attendees and some media.
It's also about flight safety. A well designed canister requires the flight crew to do nothing but pull a release.
The canister is loaded prior to being attached to the airframe, which means a family member or proxy may handle the cremains instead of the flight crew. Another small dignity.
For an RV, the canister mount could be a lower gear leg (John's approach) or perhaps a hard point based on a wing tiedown. It is important to clear the airframe for reasons of both dignity and damage. Here's a photo of a test release using a mix of pea gravel and athletic field marking lime:
Email if you need help with a canister. Anyone is welcome to the design, which I'm sure can be further improved.
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cawmd82
Well Known Member
Tie down point mounting.....
and then feed a release cable in thru the right wing bottom vent if you have one sounds like a neat way to do it with little risk of damaging something or a permanent install.
Maybe one of our electronic guys will come up with a self contained gadget with a remotecontrol release that will just screw into the tie down......
A number of years ago I was asked to do a scatter in Baja on the lake bed from the back of a motorcycle. Seemed simple enough. A little duct tape, some zip ties and presto----right?
It took 2 tries just to get the bottom of the cannister off as designed and then we found the remains to be in a baggie in the urn. Once this was opened the rest of the operation went fairly well. Unfortunately one of my riding buddies was "in trail" when I pulled the ripcord the final time. I have no idea why he chose to be where he was at that moment given the known nature of the whole deal.
He brushed his teeth for an hour upon arrival in San Felipe.
and then feed a release cable in thru the right wing bottom vent if you have one sounds like a neat way to do it with little risk of damaging something or a permanent install.
Maybe one of our electronic guys will come up with a self contained gadget with a remotecontrol release that will just screw into the tie down......
A number of years ago I was asked to do a scatter in Baja on the lake bed from the back of a motorcycle. Seemed simple enough. A little duct tape, some zip ties and presto----right?
It took 2 tries just to get the bottom of the cannister off as designed and then we found the remains to be in a baggie in the urn. Once this was opened the rest of the operation went fairly well. Unfortunately one of my riding buddies was "in trail" when I pulled the ripcord the final time. I have no idea why he chose to be where he was at that moment given the known nature of the whole deal.
He brushed his teeth for an hour upon arrival in San Felipe.
longranger
Well Known Member
Whatever method you come up with, I would emphasize making a test run or three with simulated cremains, as in Dan's post. I've heard too many war stories of buddies' ashes ending up in a shop vac; NOT a dignified result! Even over the side of a Stearman, my Dad had some of a buddy's ashes recirculate back into the open cockpit.
Lou
Member
Cremains will sand blast your paint job
Did this once in a Piper 140. We used the side vent window and had similiar results as others have stated with residue entering the cockpit. After landing and conducting a post-flight check, we noticed that the cremains had also started to sandblast the paint off the the horizontal stabilizer.
Did this once in a Piper 140. We used the side vent window and had similiar results as others have stated with residue entering the cockpit. After landing and conducting a post-flight check, we noticed that the cremains had also started to sandblast the paint off the the horizontal stabilizer.
A number of years ago this question came up on the usenet group rec.aviation. I'm not sure if those usenet groups are/were archived anywhere, but the thread was hundreds of posts long and reading it would surely bring tears to your eyes... Both with the stories of successful scatterings and stories of trips gone spectacularly wrong. I wish I could remember them all, but all I can remember is laughing so hard at some points I had to take a break and come back later to finish them.
I resolved never to try to scatter ashes from an airplane I owned.
I resolved never to try to scatter ashes from an airplane I owned.
I used to do it quite a bit for a funeral home that advertised. I started out in a Tripacer then used Cherokees when it sold by tying a long rope to the copilot seat and flying from there. It was very easy to slit the paper bag, open the door and put it on the wing walk and give it a little shove. The bag would slide down the wing and fall away from the slip stream and burst when the rope tightened causing the ashes to disperse very neatly over a wide area. There is a back draft with the door open so you have to be carefull with the bag and it wont slide down the wing till the door is mostly closed. It doesn't get blasted off either it just slowly slides down the wing walk and falls. Sometimes the family members would come and the funeral director would always go if he could. It didn't always go as smoothly as discribed.
