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RV-12 appraised value

Harvey rv12

Well Known Member
Hello all;
I am a newbie here, my first post. I recently purchased an E-LSA RV-12 in Arizona and flew it back to Snohomish WA. I love the plane though I will miss my 65hp Champ. When I went to the dept of revenue to pay my fairshare of taxes, I presented my bill of sale, an official FAA document, but the people at DOR disputed the value. they want it appraised.
has anyone here had to do that ?, and where will I get an appraisal for a kit built, experimental airplane ?.
Any help appreciated.

Thanks
Tom O.
 
Just curious...do they understand that RV-12s come in two flavors--those built in a factory and those built in someone's garage? Perhaps they don't understand the difference between an ELSA and an SLSA and why they have different values.
 
rv12 value

well I didn't get that far with the 3 girls at the desk. I am trying to find an appraiser, and I wondered if the EAA might be able to help, but have not contacted them yet.
I thought it was funny when they told me if the appraised value comes in below the purchase price, that I have to pay based on the amount on that I actually paid, but if the appraisal comes in higher than what I actually paid, I have to pay based on the higher amount:mad:
 
Hello all;
I am a newbie here, my first post. I recently purchased an E-LSA RV-12 in Arizona and flew it back to Snohomish WA. I love the plane though I will miss my 65hp Champ. When I went to the dept of revenue to pay my fairshare of taxes, I presented my bill of sale, an official FAA document, but the people at DOR disputed the value. they want it appraised.
has anyone here had to do that ?, and where will I get an appraisal for a kit built, experimental airplane ?.
Any help appreciated.

Thanks
Tom O.

I had a similar problem in AZ - the state license fee for experimental is 25, the state tried to charge me the full freight for a S-LSA - the 2nd lady I got on the phone mentioned that there were two types in their "book". I ended up mailing them a copy of the pink/peach slip that said "EXPERIMENTAL" on it to get them happy with changing the fee.

In your case, since you have a bill of sale, they should just charge you the use tax on that "import" based on the sale, but it sounds like they want to be difficult. I could make a comment about liberal tax and spend commies taking over WA state, but I won't because that wouldn't be appropriate.

Since WA is a no income tax state, I guess they work overtime there collecting other taxes - I am still smarting over the $5000 tax I paid to WA for the pleasure of owning and selling our first house there for 2 years and leaving the state....and that was in 1998!

I would go in there with your pink slip 1st, and then if necessary hire a friendly appraiser and ask the state to pay his bill or deduct it from your final bill to them.
 
Thanks for all the help & suggestions. I will find a dealer to do an appraisal.
I have a feeling I am going to get stuck paying more than I should.

Great website here, and I have so much to learn about the RV-12.
 
Thanks for all the help & suggestions. I will find a dealer to do an appraisal.
I have a feeling I am going to get stuck paying more than I should.

If you get a legitimate appraisal from a knowledgeable appraiser and it is indeed SIGNIFICANTLY more than what you paid for the plane, then celebrate!

Since Washington's sales tax rate is 6.5%, an appraisal that says you got a $10,000 bargain on your purchase price will cost you $650 of that bargain deal you made...
 
I will find a dealer to do an appraisal.
I have a feeling I am going to get stuck paying more than I should.

It won't do you one bit of good to get an appraisal that is higher than what you paid.

Talk to the appraiser / plane dealer on the phone.... let them know what you paid for your RV-12 up front, and have them assure you that their appraisal will not be for more than what you paid.

When you buy a house, the appraiser knows what you are paying for the house, and they write the appraisal accordingly.
 
Thanks for all the help & suggestions. I will find a dealer to do an appraisal.
I have a feeling I am going to get stuck paying more than I should.

Great website here, and I have so much to learn about the RV-12.

In Illinois, I called and talked to THE guy in the state capital that was the expert on this for amateur build aircraft, and he was very helpful. Other offices just have rules. Rules that are based on rules, based on policy, based on law.

It does not seem reasonable to pay the same "tax" over and over for each owner. You are not a business that adds taxable value. For $6500 at stake, I would want to know the details.
 
Hi Tom - -

If you put - Experimental Aircraft Appraisers - in a search engine, there are a few listed. Finding one close to you may be very difficult. Not sure what they could or would do over the phone or net. Maybe your "friendly government worker" would be willing to call and talk to one to see how difficult is it. Do they have a supervisor with a slight willingness to work with you ? Might be worth asking. Maybe ask if anyone in their building owns an airplane. They might be a helper.
 
What type of tax is this in WA, sales tax? If so, sales tax is based on the price paid, regardless of the item's value.
 
Hi Tom,

Saw you at Harvey the other day. Nice looking RV!

You may want to check in with Dennis at Axys Air (sp?) at Frontier Airpark. I don't have his contact info with me at the moment but if you can't find it on the web PM me and I will get it for you. Dennis does builder assists and may be able to help.

When I paid the tax on my Cherokee a few years ago there was no discussion about book value - the folks in the office took the value on my Bill of Sale with no complaint. Maybe I paid too much!

Good luck and hope to see you around at Harvey.

Lars
 
Sales Tax on auto...

My experience was in Texas and involved a car, not a plane.

I had leased a car and then, when the lease was up, chose the buyout option. Arranged the buyout and paid the sales tax on that purchase. Now that I write this, and after reading of someone else's experience in another thread, leasing and then exercising a buyout on an auto is kind of like moving from Texas to Georgia. You end up paying sales tax twice on your vehicles!

State of Texas assessed me additional sales tax when I changed the title over because they said the car was valued higher than the buyout price on my lease.

So, in my case, with a car and not a plane, the sales tax was calculated on the value that the State perceived and not on what I paid.

Don't know if that translates from Texas to your State and if the same rules apply to planes as they do for autos.
 
What type of tax is this in WA, sales tax? If so, sales tax is based on the price paid, regardless of the item's value.

The tax is called a Use Tax in Washington if you bought the item from out of state. It is at the same rate as the Wa sales tax. If there was a sales tax paid out of state, then the buyer should only be liable for the difference between Wa tax and the tax paid out of state if the Wa tax is more.
In Washington you have to have a Washington State Registration slip in the plane, like a car. When you apply for that, they check the Dept. of Revenue computer records to see if the tax has been paid before they will issue a registration.
The Dept. of Revenue people were reasonable when I registered my RV12 five years ago. They looked it up in "the book" to see what the value was but, of course, at that time there were no RV12s in the book. They accepted my sales receipts for kits bought in Oregon. There are now several RV12s registered in Wa so they should have a good idea from those registrations now in the book how much the ship is worth. They don't have to accept the bill of sale price.
 
Tom,

What DOR office are you using? When I did my RV-12 (and a Glastar, and an RV-4) I used the office in Everett, which moved to Bothell after I did the RV-12.

For the RV-12 I dealt with a gal that had been there for years and was very familiar with the process and she took the kit invoices I offered and had me pay based on that (whole thing took about 15 minutes).

For the next airplane I did (Glastar) she was still at the office after it moved to Bothell from Everett, but told me she was leaving at the end of that month. The amount from the Bill of Sale was what they used to determine "value" and that was what I paid.

For the RV-4 (2012) I dealt with a new gal in the Bothell office, but she still took the Bill of Sale and I paid based on that.

The rules may have changed in the last 3 years. Before getting too wrapped around the axle about an appraisal you might just try going into a different DOR office and see if you get a different response ('cause that never happens).

Good luck and keep us posted because I have to do this again in a few months with a Sportsman.
 
It appears you are past this point, but I got a Texas request for tax and done a lot of jumping around in circles, then finally the lady said "Oh if this is a privately owned plane being used for personal use, there is no tax!" I am smarter now.
 
I went to the office in Bothell. I think I will go to the Seattle office when I go back. I spoke with a local LSA shop in Arlington and he has had to do this before. I will try to get a letter from him.

Tom O.
 
Who is an "appraiser" and what is an "appraisal"?

As a happily retired real estate appraiser, I wonder what your DOR considers the qualifications of an aircraft appraiser to be, what the scope of the appraisal has to be and what the reporting requirements are? When I started, anybody who wanted to appraise real estate could hang out their shingle and they were one. My guess is that any airplane broker would make the grade, and the scope and reporting requirements would be very low for an aircraft appraisal for tax assessment purposes. Ask your tormenters if a "letter of opinion" from an aircraft broker would suffice. It may be that you can even use someone out of state that has never even laid eyes on the airplane.

John
 
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success, i guess

Well, I finally got my use taxes paid on my newly purchased RV-12. I went to the downtown Seattle branch of the dept of revenue after the Bothell branch told me I must have it professionally appraised at my expense. I showed the folks at the Seattle branch my bill of sale, notarized on an official FAA form, and they weren?t satisfied. They started searching their sources for Vans RV-12, and could find nothing. I then told them it was a homebuilt experimental airplane and they sighed, but then said it would need to be appraised. At which point I produced a letter from a local LSA expert at Arlington, that said it was consistent with values of other similar aircraft. With a little difficulty they agreed to accept the exact value that I paid for it. When I got home, I started crunching the numbers and I saw they calculated the rate at 8.8%, when at Harvey Field it should be 7.7%. This amounted to a substantial difference in taxes paid. I called first thing the next morning and they told me I would have to be there before 2pm, or it would go out in the mail and I would have to file an appeal to get my $700 back. So I left work, and hustled down there, and when I get there at 12:01, the guy is out to lunch, and his office partner can?t help me. I came back at 1pm, and finished the transaction. I avoided the cost for a professional appraiser ($500), and I avoided getting stuck paying taxes on potentially thousands more in taxes. Funny how just going to a different office produces different results.
 
I just checked the cost in Idaho.....it's $.03/lb of gross weight of aircraft. So for my -12.....$40ish😎
 
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