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forward or back rivet top wing skins?

P

prkaye

Well Known Member
The plans suggest the option of back-riveting the top wing skins in place. What have most people here done, and found to be easier/better ?
 
Backrivet

Either way. I did my -7 wings with a backrivet. Need the Avery joggled backrivet tool, but it worked great. Really easy.

Jim
 
Tried it with an inexperienced person holding the back rivet bar and it did not work out. Did about three or four and they were not comming out flush. Switched to the old fashioned method and never looked back.

I used the long double offset back riveting tool from Avery's and the large round, flat faced bar from Avery's that is suppose to be for this purpose.

I don't know if the inexperience was the problem or that this just is no good but others I know and others here have stated that they tried it and it did not work for them as well.

Surely someone had success at this for all the special tools to be created and the note actually got put in the work instructions from Van's. I would like to be enlightened as well on how to get this to work because I love the smoothness of a backriveted skin when done on a solid flat plate, if you could get similar results with the handheld version, I would love to do it that way.
 
Forward for me.

I shot all my RV6 wing rivets in a conventional manner.

I did this because I wanted to use the squeezer to close the top skins trailing edge.

It came out beautiful.

As always proceed with due caution, if you don't you can get ding's, and "dangs". :rolleyes:
 
Phil,
I backriveted all the top skin rivets (except the ones I could squeeze). I would definitely do this again because my skins are smooth as smooth can be. The only thing I would do differently would be to conventionally shoot/buck the skin-main spar rivets. If you backrivet this and the guy with the backrivet bucking bar doesn't hold it exact, you will get a slight lip between the main skins and the leading edge/tank skins. Ask me how I know!
 
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Like Brian, I started out back riveting & switched to the conventional method. I had both experienced and inexperienced people helping at different times and the regular method worked best with both.
 
1 More Vote for Standard Method

Despite being advised not to, I attempted to back-rivet the top wing skins. Even with a strong bucker holding the back rivet bar tight to the skins, I didn't like the results. The shop heads seemed a little small (rivet being pushed out of the hole instead of in), and the long double-offset back-rivet set seemed to absorb a lot of the gun's energy. I quickly switched to the standard shoot and buck method, and like Brantel, I never looked back. I'm sure the cause of the problem was my inexperienced helper, as surely it couldn't have been anything I had done ;).
 
I just finished my top skins. I used the swivel head mushroom set (Part RSMS75) from Cleaveland. The skins look great. I'm planning to do the bottom skins in the same fashion.
 
Brantel said:
Tried it with an inexperienced person holding the back rivet bar and it did not work out.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, back riveting is usually done with a flat plate laying on a table/bench. Not hand held--------

Rivet tape comes in handy here, as does a BIG back rivet plate. Mike is 18"x22", set into the building table, flush with the carpet padding on top.

With a setup like this, you can do the riveting solo, and do large sections at a time.

Mike
 
The method we are talking about here is the one suggested in the plans, where they suggest back riveting having your helper hold a large bucking bar over the rivet on the outside of the skin.
 
RV7Factory said:
...and the long double-offset back-rivet set seemed to absorb a lot of the gun's energy.
Click to expand...

I will second what Brad says. Usually I use about 35 PSI when I shoot AN426AD3-3.5's - with the double offset, I needed 50 PSI to get the rivets smashed in a reasonable amount of time.
 
settings

Coventional riveting, Older Avery 3x Short mushroom set, with very slight radius face.

22-25 psi, 9 to 11 hits, (best I can tell )

I will have to weigh my bar and get back, guessing 1#
 
Mike S said:
As far as I know, back riveting is usually done with a flat plate laying on a table/bench. Not hand held--------

Rivet tape comes in handy here, as does a BIG back rivet plate. Mike is 18"x22", set into the building table, flush with the carpet padding on top.

With a setup like this, you can do the riveting solo, and do large sections at a time.

Mike
Click to expand...

Not going to try this with my wings. The constant curves on top and bottom would create lots of opportunities for mistakes. This would also be impossible since you need the wing on the jig for the top skins at least to maintain alignment.

I have backriveted all of my control surfaces and the fuel tank fill flange, but not my wing skins. Avery sells a special bar for this purpose and it is suppose to be held by hand.
 
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Doens't help much to have PSI readings without letting us know what kind of gun. My 2x won't smash anything at 25psi :)
 
Flush Swivel Sets Rock!

doug_rv7 said:
I just finished my top skins. I used the swivel head mushroom set (Part RSMS75) from Cleaveland. The skins look great. I'm planning to do the bottom skins in the same fashion.
Click to expand...
I was all set on finding every possible means to back rivet the entire airplane! To the point to where I really didn't care how much additional set up time was necessary to do it. Then our Tech Counselor suggested a Flush Swivel Set. I had a hard time believing it could look as good as back riveting, but with the time I was spending on setup, I thought I'd give it a try. You have to look close to tell a difference... real close! Now, I only back rivet when it's convenient.
 
Hey Phil,
I tried backriviting like the others but quickly went back to the standard method. I vouch for the flush swivel set, it's all I use on skins except for when backriviting is the easier method.

Steve
 
Mike S said:
As far as I know, back riveting is usually done with a flat plate laying on a table/bench. Not hand held--------
Click to expand...
The fine folks at Avery sell a hand held Back Riveting Bucking Bar just for this purpose. Which, when you're done riveting, you can use as a meat tenderizer. :)
 
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I top riveted one wing and back riveted the other and you can't tell which is which.

A good riveting partner is a MUST regardless of which method you use.

Oh, and use riveting tape on the rivet head. This helps to keep it from backing out on the first strike from the rivet gun.
 
RV7Factory said:
The fine folks at Avery sell a hand held Back Riveting Bucking Bar just for this purpose. Which, when you're done riveting, you can use as a meat tenderizer. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks, just learned something.

As of yet, the only back riveting I have done is on flat surfaces, never considered the curvature of the wing.

Mike
 
Swivel Set

aerolite said:
Hey Phil,
I tried backriviting like the others but quickly went back to the standard method. I vouch for the flush swivel set, it's all I use on skins except for when backriviting is the easier method.

Steve
Click to expand...

Same here.... and if your partner for riveting isn't an experienced RV builder (but it's always better if you can get another builder... :) ...) - let them use the rivet gun.

With the swivel set, they don't have to be exactly square. You can also tell them to hold on to the rubber portion of the set to stop it "scooting" around when they pull the trigger. Most riveters are somewhat afraid to hold the set while riveting... :confused: Then the only thing they have to do is not lift the gun while riveting.

I've found that the most critical part is holding the bucking bar square on the rivet... which is not exactly easy to do when you can't see inside the wing... :)

gil in Tucson
 
I have a similar question, but it's about aft top skin on my QB. Have people had success backriveting this skin on or go conventional?
 
I bought the Avery double offset backrivet set and tried it with the mushroom bar on the outside, but felt the rivets were better and more flush when done conventionally with a flush swivel set and tungsten bar. At the same pressure of 40 PSI in a 3X gun, it would take 10 hits or so with the backrivet set, but only 5 or so with the flush set/tungsten bar.
Additionally, there have been threads on preventing scuffing with the flush set (use of various type tapes over the heads have been suggested), but I ignore all that and just rub the rivet lines when done with a scotchbrite pad to clean them up. Afterall, the whole plane will be sanded down before paint.
 
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