Van's Air Force
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Rebuild older vans fuel valve
- Thread starter CATPart
- Start date
Scott Kelley
Member
Unless this is something different from what I am familiar with, these valves have no O-rings, they use a tapered plastic spindle. What is the reason that you want to rebuild it?
I suddenly cant turn it. It's stuck on the right tank. Somebody else told me there are o-rings in it, because it looks similar to his vans valve that he rebuilt. So, if I'm going to take it apart I might as well replace what is replaceable. I just want to identify and get the parts before I take it apart, if possible.
The build date range you give is very long so I can't tell for sure, but it is possible that your airplane has an early version of the valve that has a brass cone turning in the brass valve body. These will binde up if not properly maintained (disassembled and lubed with fuel lube yearly).
This style is in large part why the kit supplied valve got a bad reputation so that people spend hundreds of $ to replace it.
The valve supplied I kits since the mid 90's has a plastic cone and is much more reliable. I'm is a direct replacement for the original (an Andair valve would require extensive re plumbing).
Because of the angle of you photo I can't tell what yours is. The early version had only two input ports. The newer version has three, so if that is what you have, there will be a third port with an NPT Allen plug in it.
If you have the early version I would recommend you order the current supplied valve and a pipe plug for the extra port.
EDIT after looking at your photo again I realized your valve is in deed the old version. The output on the new valve is on the bottom of the valve body, instead of one of the side ports.
This style is in large part why the kit supplied valve got a bad reputation so that people spend hundreds of $ to replace it.
The valve supplied I kits since the mid 90's has a plastic cone and is much more reliable. I'm is a direct replacement for the original (an Andair valve would require extensive re plumbing).
Because of the angle of you photo I can't tell what yours is. The early version had only two input ports. The newer version has three, so if that is what you have, there will be a third port with an NPT Allen plug in it.
If you have the early version I would recommend you order the current supplied valve and a pipe plug for the extra port.
EDIT after looking at your photo again I realized your valve is in deed the old version. The output on the new valve is on the bottom of the valve body, instead of one of the side ports.
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I have one that turns freely and has the nylon cone.
The OP can have it for the cost of USPS Priority Mail.
Respond to gilalex (at) q (dot) com
If the OP doesn't want it, I'll post it in Classified for a little more $$
Sold! Thanks Gil, that's very cool.
Removed the valve this morning. Here are some additional pics, if anybody is wondering what an old vans fuel valve looks like. The brass cone is completely frozen in the housing.
edit: Just some extra background info. Checked the logbook and saw that it was lubed about 1 year ago, and regularly maintained over the years. I have owned it since Feb put on 80 hours in the last 5 months and turned the valve every flight. It did seem sluggish but I did not know any better. I'm surprised it is completely frozen now, as I used the valve 3 days earlier.
edit: Just some extra background info. Checked the logbook and saw that it was lubed about 1 year ago, and regularly maintained over the years. I have owned it since Feb put on 80 hours in the last 5 months and turned the valve every flight. It did seem sluggish but I did not know any better. I'm surprised it is completely frozen now, as I used the valve 3 days earlier.
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Scott Kelley
Member
Your valve has a brass spindle. Do you use mo-gas? I have seen nasty things with brass parts that have been exposed to gas with alcohol...
Scott Kelley
Member
For the good of the order, I'll put in my two cents regarding these valves with plastic spindles, which also exhibit the sticking problem.
In at least one old post these valves were discussed and the suggestion was made to use a lighter spring in order to reduce the actuation force required. I simply shortened the spring in mine to obtain that result, with excellent results.
My valve - about 17 years old - was very sticky, requiring WAY too much force to turn it. I opened it up and found that the spindle was in good condition, and that it tightened up very significantly with small amounts of pressure pushing the valve spindle into the seat. I suspected two things of causing the sticky operation: parts worn together over years of use have more surface area in contact; and plastic that has become less slippery as it aged. Since it seats well after so many years of mating, and there were no signs of galling, I felt comfortable that the lighter spring solution would still provide good sealing. And since it had likely been used for quite some time while the substantial friction had required MUCH higher actuation force, I felt that the plastic spindle would hold up well into the future when that force was significantly reduced.
I can see lubricating the shaft of the valve to protect the o-ring that seals the shaft itself, but that will not fix the problem of the stiff valve. I find it hard to imagine that lubricating the spindle and seat interface would provide improvement in operation over any significant amount of time - that lubricant is not going to stay there, even if it is impervious to gasoline. And lubricant added to the gas for the sole purpose of improving the operation of this valve seems to me akin to emptying an oil tanker in the Gulf Of Mexico once in awhile because the locks in the Panama Canal are squeaky. It might help, but is hardly the most direct answer...
Lighten up the spring by cutting it shorter until you get a more appropriate amount of friction.
I strongly suggest that you do not continue to use these valves while they are difficult to turn. There have been failures of these valves, and I suspect that those failures would not have occurred if the valve actuation force was looked after.
In at least one old post these valves were discussed and the suggestion was made to use a lighter spring in order to reduce the actuation force required. I simply shortened the spring in mine to obtain that result, with excellent results.
My valve - about 17 years old - was very sticky, requiring WAY too much force to turn it. I opened it up and found that the spindle was in good condition, and that it tightened up very significantly with small amounts of pressure pushing the valve spindle into the seat. I suspected two things of causing the sticky operation: parts worn together over years of use have more surface area in contact; and plastic that has become less slippery as it aged. Since it seats well after so many years of mating, and there were no signs of galling, I felt comfortable that the lighter spring solution would still provide good sealing. And since it had likely been used for quite some time while the substantial friction had required MUCH higher actuation force, I felt that the plastic spindle would hold up well into the future when that force was significantly reduced.
I can see lubricating the shaft of the valve to protect the o-ring that seals the shaft itself, but that will not fix the problem of the stiff valve. I find it hard to imagine that lubricating the spindle and seat interface would provide improvement in operation over any significant amount of time - that lubricant is not going to stay there, even if it is impervious to gasoline. And lubricant added to the gas for the sole purpose of improving the operation of this valve seems to me akin to emptying an oil tanker in the Gulf Of Mexico once in awhile because the locks in the Panama Canal are squeaky. It might help, but is hardly the most direct answer...
Lighten up the spring by cutting it shorter until you get a more appropriate amount of friction.
I strongly suggest that you do not continue to use these valves while they are difficult to turn. There have been failures of these valves, and I suspect that those failures would not have occurred if the valve actuation force was looked after.
Scott Kelley
Member
I have spoken with the manufacturer of these valves - although it was not the subject of the conversation, it was made clear that they do not provide parts.
Fuel lube
Just a note of caution for anyone new to using fuel lube. It does not dissolve in fuel by design, so when it's used in the fuel system be very careful to only rub on a very thin coating. Any extra globs my find there way into the carb or fuel injection and block fuel flow.
Just a note of caution for anyone new to using fuel lube. It does not dissolve in fuel by design, so when it's used in the fuel system be very careful to only rub on a very thin coating. Any extra globs my find there way into the carb or fuel injection and block fuel flow.
Yeah, i tried to track down the manufacturer and didnt get very far myself. Instead of ordering the $50 part from Vans, like i did last time and guaranteed to work, i decided to try shopping around for alternatives. I ordered these 2 and will update when i get them to see if they work at all.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XAFKB2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MTB7QA?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00
Yes, definitely a very thin coating of fuel lube.
Cool, i will look into shortening the spring. Good idea. I dont think have a perfect seal around the plastic cone is a necessity per se. There are orings everywhere to keep the fuel contained even if the plastic cone isnt sealed tight. In fact, id argue its way better for the plastic cone to be loose than tight, otherwise, it is too easy to break.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XAFKB2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MTB7QA?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00
Yes, definitely a very thin coating of fuel lube.
Cool, i will look into shortening the spring. Good idea. I dont think have a perfect seal around the plastic cone is a necessity per se. There are orings everywhere to keep the fuel contained even if the plastic cone isnt sealed tight. In fact, id argue its way better for the plastic cone to be loose than tight, otherwise, it is too easy to break.
An overnight soaking in WD40 and the valve broke lose by hand. Looks pretty good. A little ez-lube and back in business. I will stick with this valve for now, it lasted 20 years. I think if it gets stuck again I may try some valve grinding compound to clean the mating surfaces. One thing I did was flip the detent plate because it looked a little worn. Now the clicks are a tiny bit more substantial. Here are pics of the pre lubed brass cone and body.
Weatherhead Valve
I have a Weatherhead valve in my "junk" box you may have. I torn it out recently to replace it with an Allen valve. The weatherhead has never been used, is currently lubes with Fuel Lube, and I think I even have the anodized red pointer for it. You're in the Bay Area, my project is at SQL, if you want it let me know and we can meet and I can hand it to you.
Unfortunately, my plastic cone inside broke again. I will use Fuel Lube going forward. However, anybody ever find a source for just the plastic cone? Otherwise, i will reorder the whole thing again just to use the plastic piece.
I have a Weatherhead valve in my "junk" box you may have. I torn it out recently to replace it with an Allen valve. The weatherhead has never been used, is currently lubes with Fuel Lube, and I think I even have the anodized red pointer for it. You're in the Bay Area, my project is at SQL, if you want it let me know and we can meet and I can hand it to you.
BillL
Well Known Member
