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Anyone ever fly to the Caymans Directly??

AndyRV7

Well Known Member
I was in Little Cayman last week and happened to witness 5 RV's coming in at various times for what looked like a gathering. It got me wondering if it was a direct flight. From Key West to Grand Cayman is about a 2 hour hop, so definitely in range. I can't claim to know anything about crossing Cuba though.

Anyone?
 
Now THAT would be a fun trip! I think it could be done but I?m not sure what the rules and regulations are with regards to flying over Cuba. I think at the very least you have to be on an IFR flight plan and there may even be a special corridor that you?d haven?t fly through. So if it could be done as a ?direct to? from Key West, that would be an amazing trip.

Mark
 
Now THAT would be a fun trip! I think it could be done but I?m not sure what the rules and regulations are with regards to flying over Cuba. I think at the very least you have to be on an IFR flight plan and there may even be a special corridor that you?d haven?t fly through. So if it could be done as a ?direct to? from Key West, that would be an amazing trip.

Mark

There's a special overflight permit to file and be approved, money to be paid, and you have to fly through one of the authorized corridors (GIRON is one). Jim Parker takes care of all that. Even though you could do it yourself, he makes it dirt simple.
 
Holy cow! $1350 bucks just for the Cayman landing/ops permit.

Thanks for the link though. Some insightful reading.
 
There's a special overflight permit to file and be approved, money to be paid, and you have to fly through one of the authorized corridors (GIRON is one). Jim Parker takes care of all that. Even though you could do it yourself, he makes it dirt simple.

So would that have to be done via an IFR flight plan or could a VFR pilot do it.
 
Holy cow! $1350 bucks just for the Cayman landing/ops permit.

I went to his site and couldn't find that number. All I saw was $40.00 for the overflight permit. If you go on one of the escorted trips, then it's more expensive, but if you want to go on your own, I don't think it's that expensive, but again I may have missed something on his site.
 
So would that have to be done via an IFR flight plan or could a VFR pilot do it.

Needs to be IFR flight plan as I recall, but that's no big deal. You don't have to be instrument rated to file IFR as long as you're in VFR conditions, which you would be
 
Very interesting... I’ll have to look in to that. ����

Yes, I like this too!!

Mark Dickens, I added the site membership to my cart and there was a link to something like "See All Products." That's where I saw the Cayman permit for $1350. That was for 30 days. They have a 6 month permit for around $2600 and something. Maybe that's a group permit, so it's normally split by all the people in a caravan.
 
I can tell you that it's just like flying "in the system" in the U.S.. The Cuban controllers are courteous and speak good English and as long as you stay in the the assigned corridor, it's a completely uneventful trip over Cuba. Mainly, you just file the right paperwork and arrange payment through an authorized intermediary and after you get the authorization, you're good to go. It was my first time to fly to the Caribbean and it was a complete blast.
 
Yes, I like this too!!

Mark Dickens, I added the site membership to my cart and there was a link to something like "See All Products." That's where I saw the Cayman permit for $1350. That was for 30 days. They have a 6 month permit for around $2600 and something. Maybe that's a group permit, so it's normally split by all the people in a caravan.

I see what you're talking about...that's for unlimited flights over Cuba for 30 days, so you wouldn't want that. The standard overflight permit is $40.00 so I'd guess you'd need two (down and back). I'd recommend calling Jim and getting all of the details. He goes to OSH as well and has a booth in one of the hangars in case you're going.

Edit: I'm wrong...it's a straight $40 for round trip and that's just for Jim to handle the paperwork and payment (which is pretty complicated due to our Treasury Dept rules.
 
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Needs to be IFR flight plan as I recall, but that's no big deal. You don't have to be instrument rated to file IFR as long as you're in VFR conditions, which you would be

This letter from the FAA Chief Counsel may be of interest.
This was a subject of a recent FIRC I attended.

mmg2rn.jpg


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I lost my will to live before finishing that memo. So, if you accidentally check the wrong box, they can violate you? Right....just gotta love it.
 
I lost my will to live before finishing that memo. So, if you accidentally check the wrong box, they can violate you? Right....just gotta love it.

LOL!! It sounds like this falls under the ?it?s better to ask forgiveness rather than permission? rule. :)
 
Caribbean trip

Paul Rosales has been hosting a Caribbean flight trip on the odd years. I wonder it that is his group. I hope to do it in 2021!!
 
Needs to be IFR flight plan as I recall, but that's no big deal. You don't have to be instrument rated to file IFR as long as you're in VFR conditions, which you would be
Well... technically you need to be IFR rated to accept an IFR clearance. Just so you know...:cool:
 
Paul Rosales has been hosting a Caribbean flight trip on the odd years. I wonder it that is his group. I hope to do it in 2021!!

I'd love to, as well. I've made about 10 trips over the years in the Caribbean (as far south as the BVI) in small planes, mostly the Bahamas, and as trips go, I've found it to be the most fun and rewarding.
 
I do suspect you saw Rosie and the crew for this year.
Unfortunately we skipped this year. Last time saw us as far south as Grenada. That is when the fun really starts...
 
Straight Scoop on Flying to MWCR, MWCL

At least 3 months before go to https://dtops.cbp.dhs.gov/ and apply for your customs decal. If you do not receive it in time, print out the receipt and carry it with you.
At least 2 weeks before go to CaribbeanFlyingAdventures.com and get your Cuban overflight permit.
Download the ICAO flight plan form and work out your IFR route from KEYW or X51 or KFLL to MWCR. Enter your Cuban permit number in the Remarks section
(You must file IFR).
File your IFR flight plan
Before you depart, better to activate your flight plan on the ground - it is sometimes hard to reach Miami Center and you will be at the ADIZ before you know it
Set your altimeter to 29.92 when you enter Cuban airspace (probably at IKBIX or TADPO intersections). Be aware that Cuban ATC may give you the altimeter in millibars - don?t be fazed by this, you will be out of their airspace in no time
When you land at MWCR (Grand Cayman), the tower will direct you to the FBO
The admin office is behind the FBO - you pay your fees there and file your flight plan to MWCL (Little Cayman) as well
Not as complicated as the above sounds. Have done this more than a few times (and recently)
Have fun,
 
At least 3 months before go to https://dtops.cbp.dhs.gov/ and apply for your customs decal. If you do not receive it in time, print out the receipt and carry it with you.
At least 2 weeks before go to CaribbeanFlyingAdventures.com and get your Cuban overflight permit.
Download the ICAO flight plan form and work out your IFR route from KEYW or X51 or KFLL to MWCR. Enter your Cuban permit number in the Remarks section
(You must file IFR).
File your IFR flight plan
Before you depart, better to activate your flight plan on the ground - it is sometimes hard to reach Miami Center and you will be at the ADIZ before you know it
Set your altimeter to 29.92 when you enter Cuban airspace (probably at IKBIX or TADPO intersections). Be aware that Cuban ATC may give you the altimeter in millibars - don?t be fazed by this, you will be out of their airspace in no time
When you land at MWCR (Grand Cayman), the tower will direct you to the FBO
The admin office is behind the FBO - you pay your fees there and file your flight plan to MWCL (Little Cayman) as well
Not as complicated as the above sounds. Have done this more than a few times (and recently)
Have fun,
Don't forget about EAPIS as well...
 
Filing IFR

What if its a flight of two. Lead is instrument rated, wing is not?? And then there was the flight of four. Lead was instrument rated and equipped, the three wingmen were not.
 
What if its a flight of two. Lead is instrument rated, wing is not?? And then there was the flight of four. Lead was instrument rated and equipped, the three wingmen were not.

Excellent question and I put that to the FAA. Here's their response:

Oh freddled gruntbuggly,
Thy micturations are to me
As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee.
Groop, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes,
And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts
With my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't!

There... that's clear!
 
Don't forget about EAPIS as well...
Good point about eApis. And forgot about the 12" letters (we now have permanent large letters)
Laird - that link to the 2005 Cayman Islands trip sure brought back memories and it was nice to see those old pics of you and the gang. That was our first trip!
 
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Jailbird

Laird - that link to the 2005 Cayman Islands trip sure brought back memories and it was nice to see those old pics of you and the gang. That was our first trip!

Brought back a lot of fun memories for me as well. Hope all is well.
 
IFR

Excellent question and I put that to the FAA. Here's their response:

Oh freddled gruntbuggly,
Thy micturations are to me
As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee.
Groop, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes,
And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts
With my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't!

There... that's clear!
Excellent, I have been waiting almost thirty years for the answer to that question.
Now can you tell me if it is ok to make a long night cross country on an island without any lights on the airplane, not even a flashlight. Lets use Jamaica for an example, that may or may not be factual. does the FAA have jurisdiction over US pilots flying in Jamaica. If it was in fact Jamaica there was no regulatory agency in that long ago era. Rumor had it that Jamaica or wherever had not paid their bill to the UK for running the local equivalent of the FAA.
 
What if its a flight of two. Lead is instrument rated, wing is not?? And then there was the flight of four. Lead was instrument rated and equipped, the three wingmen were not.
Lead/wingman status is irrelevant. The aircraft PIC must be instrument rated so the answer is a huge NO.

Now can you tell me if it is ok to make a long night cross country on an island without any lights on the airplane, not even a flashlight.
Night flying require lights so again the answer is a huge NO.

Lets use Jamaica for an example, that may or may not be factual. does the FAA have jurisdiction over US pilots flying in Jamaica.
The answer to this is a huge YES. The FAA has legal jurisdiction over all US Citizens and US registered aircraft anywhere in the world.

IOW, proceed at your own risk but remember that "ignorance of the law is no excuse", especially if/when you get in trouble in a foreign country. Don't become the stereotypical "Ugly American".

:cool:
 
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I've done the flight from Marathon Key (probably a better choice for most people than Key West) to the Caymans. It's correct that you need to file IFR and for that you should be instrument rated, but someone commented that "you would be" flying VFR. I am here to say that isn't necessarily the case.

When you're flying that far over water, you're not going to be interested in flying low. You want options, or at least TIME, if things go wrong. Time to radio your position, time to analyze the situation, time to react, time to prepare. That requires altitude. Altitude requires climb, and climb as quickly as possible if you really want the best safety you can get.

On my flight to the island, I had to descend through clouds, but was mostly VFR for the whole trip there. A little climb through the clouds coming out of Marathon to get on top and fly over Cuba. I also had to fly part of the instrument approach into Grand Cayman.

On my return flight, I had to climb for a while, actually, through many build ups. It was a bumpy ride in the clouds, too, but we set up for best climb and headed up to get above everything. The clouds sometimes hang out fairly low over the Caribbean and Bahamas too.

Do yourself a favor...get the instrument rating. It's worth it if you're going to do extensive travels by air anyway.

Other than that, the flight was not extraordinarily expensive, or complicated. As mentioned in the thread, go the Jim's page, become a member at least for a year, and you can get a Cuban overflight permit plenty cheap. The worst part about the whole thing is the psychology you go through after you pass Cuba and are out of glide range, knowing that if you go down, it's going to be a LONG time that you may be floating waiting for help, IF they can find you, and that's IF you are able to extract yourself and family out of the plane. THAT's the hard part...not letting your mind get to you. It was literally the first time I ever actually wished we had a whole-plane parachute like a Cirrus. Other than for over-water, I really could care less about the chute, but it sure would be nice for water ditchings.
 
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