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Quick Build Kits - Review Announcement

greghughespdx

Well Known Member
Advertiser
Van's staff has been working the past couple of weeks to review a few reports of surface corrosion being seen on quick build kits received by customers in the second half of 2020. We will be communicating this morning with a specific, defined group of customers who received QB kits from us, where the QB kits were received from the assembler by Van's between this past June and January. The purpose of reaching out to those customers is to ask them to complete a set of assessment steps and report their results (photos and info) to us so we can catalog each kit's results and, if and where needed, help take care of any issues.

Please note that the scope of this review is limited to those kits received by Van's from our QB assembly contractor between June 2020 and January 2021.

Below is the text of our announcement. It's important to us at Van's to deliver a quality product and take care of our customers.

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Van’s Aircraft is investigating a few reports of potential surface corrosion appearing on the interior aluminum surfaces of specific Quick Build wing and fuselage kits. Kits that are in-scope for this review are those that were assembled by our contract company and delivered to Van’s Aircraft between June 2020 and January 2021. Note that not all kits from this time period are necessarily affected, and the scope of our investigation is intentionally broad at to help ensure sufficient and complete information collection.

As we all know, COVID has resulted in significant impacts on the staffing and timeliness of businesses around the world. While we have worked hard to navigate the difficult business environment and maintain our business as close as possible to pre-COVID operations, these impacts have affected Van’s and our various subcontract business partners. In mid-2020 our Quick Build contract team was forced into a 100% closure for several weeks, and then was significantly limited in terms of staffing due to local COVID regulations.

Our investigation and a series of lab analyses indicate that in cases where surface corrosion is present on these QB assemblies, the cause appears to be the incorrect application of primer combined with the introduction of sweat on the parts’ surfaces during assembly at the contractor’s facility. Van’s temporarily halted Quick Build production in January while the primer application issue was identified, verified, and remediated. In addition, Van’s has examined and is in the process of remediating primer issues found on Quick Build kits that have already been delivered to us and are currently stored at our factory warehouse. This will, of course, take some extra time to complete, but we will ensure first and foremost that the QB kits we ship meet our standards.

As we continue our investigation, we are reaching out directly to customers who received Quick Build kits that could potentially be affected, to assess the delivered kits and ensure they are checked. We will ask each of these customers to complete a survey, in which they will follow specific instructions to briefly examine and photograph certain parts/areas of their Quick Build kits, and then submit that information to Van’s Aircraft for review. In the event a customer’s kit is affected, our staff will work directly with each kit owner to resolve his or her individual needs based on our analysis of that kit. As always, Van’s Aircraft stands by its customers and products, and we’ll do what it takes.

Thank you, as always, for your continued support and understanding!

The Van’s Aircraft Team

https://www.vansaircraft.com/2021/02/vans-aircraft-performing-review-of-quick-build-kits/
 
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Corrosion

Thank you for looking into this. Looks like sweat drops that were allowed to get going and then not cleaned prior to applying the anti corrosion treatment. At least that's what it looks like to me.
 
Unforeseen Delays

I have had RV-14A QB Wings and Fuselage on order since May 2020. Original quote was for delivery in Oct/Nov 2020.

However, Van's has subsequently experienced a COVID-19 outbreak in the QB contract facility in the Philippines, two more outbreaks in the Oregon factory impacting kitting and crating, an ice storm that closed the plant, and now a corrosion problem. Since late January I have not had a projected delivery date. Right now it is looking like a minimum 10-month lead time to get QB RV-14 assemblies for my case.

While all the delays are frustrating and mounting, I am glad that Van's is focused on safety and quality. My hope is that the QB assemblies show up safe and with excellent quality.
 
Updated informtion

We've posted an update concerning our QB kit primer investigation and the resulting actions we are taking. That update can be found here. The posted information is rather long and detailed, as we wanted to be sure to communicate as fully as we are able.

A quick update on what we reported here the last time: We discovered that Quick Build kits assembled by our contractor between Spring of last year and January of this year may have insufficient primer applied, so we are communicating with customers whose kits were already delivered, as well as customers whose kits remain in our warehouse. When we started investigating this situation, we paused the shipping of QB kits from our warehouse so we could determine what necessary next steps to take.

For customers who already received what were are referring to as "affected" kits, we have provided a set of options for each customer to choose from. We are also offering essentially the same options to those customers for whom we have a kit(s) in our factory warehouse right now. We will be reaching out to each of those customers to determine what they would like to do. Those options are:
  • Take delivery of the affected QB kit, which has primer that is incomplete in coverage and may have some surface corrosion on the aluminum parts, and remediate it themselves (meaning clean any surface corrosion, prime, and treat as appropriate). In this case, Van's will provide the kit owner a $2,000 stipend for each QB kit to cover remediation needs.
  • Decide not to take delivery the affected QB kit, and instead opt to wait for a QB kit that does not have the affected primer (delivery dates TBD).
  • Decide not to take delivery of the QB kit, and instead opt to change the order to a Standard Build kit (Van's refunds the difference in price), and take delivery when a standard kit is available (delivery dates TBD).
Note that our team is working hard to determine timeframes and to forecast when we will be able to have new kits available based on the realities of the situation today, which we cover in the above-linked post. A complex and layered set of circumstances make the process of determining this information rather complicated. While we are not yet able to provide specific timeframes, we will communicate more as soon as we're able to do so.

Our primary intent is to deliver great kits to customers that meet needs and expectations and to communicate accurately and openly with you - including when the information we need to communicate might not be as happy as we'd like it to be. We've always operated our business as thoughtfully and transparently as we can, with the RV kit builder in mind, and so that's what we are working hard to do now.

We truly appreciate the support and continued understanding of the RV community. We have been blessed and encouraged by the recent kind words of support from many out there as we have navigated COVID, wildfires, extreme weather, and a variety of resulting challenges.

Thank you.

greg
 
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Thanks to everyone at Vans for the detailed communication and hard work to fix this issue. As I am somewhere in the line for delivery of a QB kit, it's good to hear everything that is being done. Could you also let us know the specifics of the new primer that is being used? I was literally about to order SW P60 G2 for empennage parts for consistency with primer on the QB. I'd like to consider using whatever the new stuff is on the QB parts. Thanks!
 
Need more information...

Greg,

Do you think it would be possible to share some photographs of the corrosion and recommended steps for remediation?

Thank you!

B
 
corrosion

I commend Vans for their honesty and transparency in dealing with this situation. The quality of all the kits I have ordered in the past have been top notch. My quick build fuselage has been on order for a while but has not yet shipped so it looks like I will have to choose one of the three options listed. It is a bit difficult to make a decision without seeing the extent of the damage caused by the corrosion. There is a big difference between surface corrosion found on the inside of un-supported skin and corrosion between mating surfaces of say the longeron and the skins. One I can easily scuff and re-apply a protective coat, the other...well I would rather not.

If it's only sweat drops, that would be very easy to deal with. Looking forward to hear what others have seen.
 
Is it possible to share how many kits are affected and what the normal production rate is in the Philippines? That would provide a clearer picture as to the extent of the issues and the lead time for new customers going forward.
 
Is it possible to share how many kits are affected and what the normal production rate is in the Philippines? That would provide a clearer picture as to the extent of the issues and the lead time for new customers going forward.

Posted on the Van's website..

"We have adjusted our Quick Build kit lead times for all new QB orders to “one-year-plus,” meaning we cannot yet provide a more specific estimated delivery date, and that our current estimate is more than 12 months."

https://www.vansaircraft.com/2021/03/quick-build-kits-delivery-times-and-primer-remediation-update/
 
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Yes, I read the announcement on the website, which is why I asked the additional questions.

I know Van's is not Boeing and has no obligation to disclose the extent of the corrosion issue, but having some "numbers" of affected kits and production rates would provide a lot more clarity.
 
Yes, I read the announcement on the website, which is why I asked the additional questions.

I know Van's is not Boeing and has no obligation to disclose the extent of the corrosion issue, but having some "numbers" of affected kits and production rates would provide a lot more clarity.

I understand the desire to understand more and to try to figure everything out. And believe me, we wish it was as simple as "X number of kits at a rate of Y churned out per month" or something similar. It's not that simple - not even close.

Most everything is in some state of flux right now. We're working hard on solidifying things. It's a complicated and changing environment we're operating in, plus we just don't share a lot of that internal info for a variety of business reasons. We're sharing what we can, when we can - and we will continue to do that. I'll be sure to provide more detail and updates when appropriate.

We're currently re-forecasting our parts manufacturing, assembly, delivery, staffing, and other capacities to accommodate the recent substantial uptick in orders as well as the unique needs that come out of the current QB situation, and we'll share info only when it's ready and it makes the best sense to do so. There are many, many factors that affect these calculations and (please forgive my unbridled glibness on this one) that's something we'll take care of internally, not in crowdsourced mode. :) Honestly, it's best not to have the internet forecasting this for us at all, especially using incomplete information. When we've formed a more solid set of information that's publicly shareable we will communicate it, as appropriate. This situation is complex and fluid, and there's more information that needs to be collected from customers and elsewhere before we can fully refine our forecasts. Please know that we're doing everything we possibly can to get there.

TL;DR: No, we're not sharing that information as it's internal and will almost certainly change over the next little while as we gather more info. We will be communicating more when we can.

Also note that we've updated our lead times for new kit orders on our web site to reflect the current situation.

Thanks!

greg
 
... There is a big difference between surface corrosion found on the inside of un-supported skin and corrosion between mating surfaces of say the longeron and the skins ...

The primer application was thin or partial in terms of coverage, and primer is applied prior to the assembly of the parts. We cannot see in-between parts to confirm the condition of the non-visible areas of course, but if we see visible corrosion in a joint when we examine a kit we won't make a kit in that condition available to a customer. Generally, we've seen corrosion that appears to be caused by sweat that has dripped, run or been wiped on surfaces during assembly. We have taken a few kits apart and have found some relatively small amount of corrosion between the mating parts in some cases. This is why we recommend a combination of manual corrosion removal, repriming and treating with anti-corrosive products after paint.

... Do you think it would be possible to share some photographs of the corrosion and recommended steps for remediation? ...

I'll work on pulling together a few representative photos showing the surface corrosion. The recommended steps for self remediation are manual removal of visible corrosion (typically using scotchbrite pads), repriming, and when appropriate treating with a preventative anti-corrosion solution such as Corrosion X, ACF 50, or other similar industry-standard product.

greg
 
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Thank you!

I appreciate the additional information. Sounds like you are working through what must be a series of challenges.
 
I wonder if the new time line for QB applies to new orders or those who placed their order months ago as well.

All of the lead times we list on our website apply specifically to new orders.

We are assessing all orders so that we can identify for each existing order what, if any, adjustments will need to be made to timelines. It's possible that lead times for existing orders will be affected by supply realities, and that's a large chunk of the information that we are still working through. Priority for all open QB orders is determined based on when the customer's original order was placed.

Hope that helps a bit. I know it's not detailed enough info to know what exactly to expect. Again, we're working on it. When we have more complete and detailed info to share with customers on their specific orders, we will be doing that.
 
All of the lead times we list on our website apply specifically to new orders.

We are assessing all orders so that we can identify for each existing order what, if any, adjustments will need to be made to timelines. It's possible that lead times for existing orders will be affected by supply realities, and that's a large chunk of the information that we are still working through. Priority for all open QB orders is determined based on when the customer's original order was placed.

Hope that helps a bit. I know it's not detailed enough info to know what exactly to expect. Again, we're working on it. When we have more complete and detailed info to share with customers on their specific orders, we will be doing that.

Greg,
Thank you for the flow of info and sharing, it helps alot. I do realize some of these/realities might be out of one's control and fully understand that.
 
All of the lead times we list on our website apply specifically to new orders.

We are assessing all orders so that we can identify for each existing order what, if any, adjustments will need to be made to timelines. It's possible that lead times for existing orders will be affected by supply realities, and that's a large chunk of the information that we are still working through. Priority for all open QB orders is determined based on when the customer's original order was placed.

Hope that helps a bit. I know it's not detailed enough info to know what exactly to expect. Again, we're working on it. When we have more complete and detailed info to share with customers on their specific orders, we will be doing that.

Greg, can you say what is the approximate range of order dates for which orders have been filled? That would help us estimate where we stand.
 
New Quick Build Primer

Thanks to everyone at Vans for the detailed communication and hard work to fix this issue. As I am somewhere in the line for delivery of a QB kit, it's good to hear everything that is being done. Could you also let us know the specifics of the new primer that is being used? I was literally about to order SW P60 G2 for empennage parts for consistency with primer on the QB. I'd like to consider using whatever the new stuff is on the QB parts. Thanks!

Did not see an answer to the question on the new primer that has been implemented for quick build kits. Greg - can you share any detail on the new primer that Van's has selected?
 
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