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Odyssey PC-680 Battery Problems: Please Chime In

boomer

Well Known Member
The past year or so I have noticed quite a few issues with newer PC680 batteries. This is in contrast with those who have had them for a quite few years, who seemed to get very good service. Some have opined that the product quality may have gone down recently, which has been my experience. I thought this thread might be a forum for those to chime in with problems to see if this is a concern.

I'm on my 5th PC-680 since August 2011. The first two were my fault as I ran them down completely, which is a no-no. Neither would revive using the rejuvenation process detailed elsewhere. However, the last three just died in regular service. One day they were good and the next they wouldn't start my IO-360.

The first of these (actually the third) lasted about a year. This one was successfully rejuvenated and is my aircraft now. The second (4th) went about 13 months and will hold voltage but not cranking power.

Now the third (5th) one just died after 5 months of normal use. I took it on a 4 hop cross country over three days, and it worked fine. When I landed at hope plate, I taxied in and shut down immediately. Came back 9 days later, and it was flat. Voltage was 11.0 on my EIFS, and I couldn't get a complete turn on the prop. Put in the rejuvenated battery (#3), and everything worked fine.

Tried rejuvenating #5 with no success. It will recharge to 12.75 volts but goes down to 11.5 volts after a day. This one is going back for a replacement.

Odyssey recharger used throughout.

Has anyone else had similar experiences with their 680(s)?

-Joh
 
The past year or so I have noticed quite a few issues with newer PC680 batteries. This is in contrast with those who have had them for a quite few years, who seemed to get very good service. Some have opined that the product quality may have gone down recently, which has been my experience. I thought this thread might be a forum for those to chime in with problems to see if this is a concern.

I'm on my 5th PC-680 since August 2011. The first two were my fault as I ran them down completely, which is a no-no. Neither would revive using the rejuvenation process detailed elsewhere. However, the last three just died in regular service. One day they were good and the next they wouldn't start my IO-360.

The first of these (actually the third) lasted about a year. This one was successfully rejuvenated and is my aircraft now. The second (4th) went about 13 months and will hold voltage but not cranking power.

Now the third (5th) one just died after 5 months of normal use. I took it on a 4 hop cross country over three days, and it worked fine. When I landed at hope plate, I taxied in and shut down immediately. Came back 9 days later, and it was flat. Voltage was 11.0 on my EIFS, and I couldn't get a complete turn on the prop. Put in the rejuvenated battery (#3), and everything worked fine.

Tried rejuvenating #5 with no success. It will recharge to 12.75 volts but goes down to 11.5 volts after a day. This one is going back for a replacement.

Odyssey recharger used throughout.

Has anyone else had similar experiences with their 680(s)?

-Joh

Is it possible that there is some thing else going on with your system? To have five them, or three of them (not counting those that were ran down) is very unusual.

I am on my 6th year on this battery, always use battery charger when in the hanger and never had any issues. Maybe I am just lucky with this battery
 
Quit honestly, I'm starting to suspect my Odessey charger.

I get different stats, simply by disconnecting and reconnecting the charger to the battery. For example, it will tell me I am at a 60% charge. I plug it in to my second battery (on isolated buses), then back to the original. It then tells me it's down to 9% within absolutely nothing turned on in the interim. Then mysteriously, it's back to 100% within a half hour or so. I would think that if it was truly down to 9%, it would take hours to charge.

I am beginning to become skeptical if the charger is showing me any meaningful data. Is the percentage of charge represent anything close to being accurate? I haven't have a chance to baseline or troubleshoot this yet, so these are just current unsubstantiated thoughts at the moment.

I have the 12a Odessey charger and a pair of PC-680s in my RV-10.
 
POSSIBLE CAUSE

G'day folks,

Several years ago I had subtle failure of the continuous duty solenoid (Vans supplied) - it leaked about 0.25 volts per day into the ether. This ruined the PC680 battery over several months. The battery volts would recover quickly through recharge, but eventually would not regain sufficient grunt to turn the prop.

A new solenoid fixed the problem.

Regards
 
G'day folks,

Several years ago I had subtle failure of the continuous duty solenoid (Vans supplied) - it leaked about 0.25 volts per day into the ether. This ruined the PC680 battery over several months. The battery volts would recover quickly through recharge, but eventually would not regain sufficient grunt to turn the prop.

A new solenoid fixed the problem.

Regards

Bob,

How did you isolate that the contactor was the problem?

Thanks,

Bob
 
What voltage is your alternator system putting out. The 680 requires 14.7 to get a proper charge and 14.1 is the absolute minimum. Less then that leaves the battery partially charged and damaged over time.

George
 
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I would put a current meter on the battery with everything in a normal shutdown position. It sounds to me like you have a current draw with the master off. Just my two cents.
 
Odyssey PC-680 Battery

My Odyssey 680 battery in my 7a just gave up when I returned from 2400 mile cross country trip. Last week my wife and I went to KeyWest Florida for a week long vacation. When we returned there was not enough power in the battery to turn over the IO-360. I tested the battery and it was up to 12 volts, but would drop to 3 volts while attempting to crank the engine. Took it to a local auto parts store for testing, and it failed miserably.
I installed my 4 year old Odyssey that I pulled out of the plane 14 months ago, and the engine started fine.

Called Aircraft Spruce for warranty and a new battery was shipped that same day.

Im just happy we made it back without any problems.
 
My first failure is in my power tug, second on the bench being cycled and third new one in the plane. All in 2.5 yrs/135 TT.

I thought it was my GRT EFIS clock power. Measured 10 mA. Disconnected clock power and still the same thing...leave a fully charged 680 aux battery hooked up to nothing but a solenoid with diodes and within a week will go from 12.85 down to 12.50 vdc. You know it just might be the diodes/solenoid. My main 925 wired to exact same solenoid setup is always 12.80-12.85 no matter how long it sits.

And Bob, the 120V power to my same charger must be disconnected and reconnected when switching from one battery to the next or it throws it out of whack. The most accurate way is just measuring ocv and compare to chart. I also do a load test with a resistance heater type from auto parts store at annual to track performance.
 
FOR BOB LEFLER, POST #6

G'day Bob,

Fortunately my brother is an electrician with a good quality multimeter. He measured current flow from the continuous duty contactor (solenoid ?) to earth with battery master off. It was a few milliamps leaking - not enough for my $9 multimeter to detect. I suspect the leak had been there for a few weeks. The battery would recover volts during recharge, but eventually, although the indicated voltage (Dynon D120 EMS) would recover, soon there was not enough grunt to turn the prop. I purchased a new battery and contactor - all well now.

The old battery (2005 vintage) has recovered sufficiently (using a smart charger) to use on an RV-8A build avionics fit out - the first engine start will tell how good it is now.

The original contactor and battery sat for four years during the build of our aircraft, and all was well for the first few months.

Note that if I was flying every few days, the battery provided a good start. But after a week a would have to recharge because the volts were low.

Good luck with your trouble shooting.

Best regards,
 
I have 2 of these in my -7 each on a separate redundant bus. I don't charge them, I don't do anything to them . . . Just fly the plane a few times a week. I'm wondering if there is something that I should be doing or am I just waiting until they fail? How long should I expect to get out to them? Before I got in to the RV world I dealt with Gill batteries which were just terrible. I had heard that these were great batteries unlike Gill and would last a very long time. Now I'm not sure what to expect :rolleyes:
 
I have 2 of these in my -7 each on a separate redundant bus. I don't charge them, I don't do anything to them . . . Just fly the plane a few times a week. I'm wondering if there is something that I should be doing or am I just waiting until they fail? How long should I expect to get out to them? Before I got in to the RV world I dealt with Gill batteries which were just terrible. I had heard that these were great batteries unlike Gill and would last a very long time. Now I'm not sure what to expect :rolleyes:

I just ordered a new PC680 to replace the one that has been in my RV-6 for eight years. The old battery still cranks just fine, but I found a good price and decided to retire the battery while it still works.

I have never used a trickle charger, just try to fly the plane at least once a week. I also use a sump heater during winter which reduces stress on the battery.
 
My experience is much like Sam's... six year old PC680 is still going strong. It has never been on any form of external charger, just the aircraft alternator. Sometimes it goes a month without being flown, and often in the winter it might be more than a month of bitterly cold weather before we get a break and can go flying. The 680 has been like a tank - zero problems.

I just ordered a pair of 680's, one for my wife's Mazda Miata, the other to replace the 6-year-old battery in the airplane. The airplane battery would be replaced solely as preventative maintenance, not because it's showing any signs of deterioration. If/when I replace the airplane battery I'll be putting the old one in the Miata, just to keep it charged up through the summer months. I suspect it will soldier on for many more years in that application. In this part of the world, six years is about all one can expect from an automotive OEM battery - if it makes it to six years then you can safely bet it will let you down the next time the temperature hits -20C.
 
Have you searched for prior threads/posts??? this has been discussed quite a lot in the last year or two.

How's that used one doing in your jet ski? That one got weak on me in less than two years. New one still going strong.
 
How's that used one doing in your jet ski? That one got weak on me in less than two years. New one still going strong.

It was still doing just fine when we sold the ski couple years ago. Even sitting a lot more than an airplane sits.
 
I had 680 go strong for 7 or 8 years. When I replaced it, I upgraded the Van's 35A alternator and regulator to B&C units (got tired of replacing alternators). With the new regulator, I adjusted for 14.5v. The new battery failed after 4 months. I recall talking to the battery company, they said you can damage the battery by overcharging and suggested dialing it down. I'm back at 13.5v, and the battery is going strong, 10 months now.
 
7 yrs and still going

I'm just a few month over seven years since first flight and my PC680 is still going strong! I've only had a charger on it three or times during panel work in the hanger for a couple hrs each time. I'm hoping for ten years. I don't want to replace it with a new one only to find out that it only last 2 or 3 years. I hope the quality hasn't changed. I'll be waiting to here how Sam's new battery does over the next couple years.
 
These are all great news. I'm hoping that mine last me 4 years plus! Wow, 7 years! that's incredible. During the time I owned my Cessna 310 I planned on buying new Gill batteries every 2 years during the annual. 2 batteries at over $200 each . . . that's just 1 of thousands of reason why I'm flying an RV now:D
 
I had 680 go strong for 7 or 8 years. When I replaced it, I upgraded the Van's 35A alternator and regulator to B&C units (got tired of replacing alternators). With the new regulator, I adjusted for 14.5v. The new battery failed after 4 months. I recall talking to the battery company, they said you can damage the battery by overcharging and suggested dialing it down. I'm back at 13.5v, and the battery is going strong, 10 months now.

With less then 14.1 volts while charging oddessy states the battery will not fully charge. They recommended 14.5 to 14.7 for me and that matches their written documentation.
You do need to be aware of where the voltage sense wire is attached and the type of EFIS or EMI you're using. There were several threads on how many under report the voltage. The13.5 you are reading could be 14 or more at the battery.
I wonder if what seems to be a rash of 680 battery failures could be because of incorrect charging voltage readings as more and more RV's go with efis installations.

George
 
680 Issues

My RV7A had not flown much in the year before I bought it. The 680 was getting weak so I replaced it and also bought a 25A Odessy charger. That was 16 months ago. I fly about 3 to 5 times every two weeks and have had three instances where it would not crank in the past 6 weeks. It seems to charge back up but I no longer trust it. I plan on load testing it later this week and may replace it.

Regardless, I am wondering what, if anything, other folks are using for maintenance? Can you use a Battery Tender Plus? I have no problem leaving it plugged in when I am out of town but I know the literature says to only use their brand charger which I am afraid to leave on constantly.
Tom M.
 
Regardless, I am wondering what, if anything, other folks are using for maintenance? Can you use a Battery Tender Plus? I have no problem leaving it plugged in when I am out of town

I do not leave the battery on the charger any longer than needed to bring it up to charge.

I would not be leaving it on charge while you are out of town for only a week or two----------it should maintain more than enough charge in that short of a time.
 
I have a PC680 and Battery Tender Plus. I always connect the Battery Tender to the PC680 after every flight. Whether it sits for a day or a week, it's always plugged in no matter what. I've done this without fail for 2 years and have not had any problems whatsoever with the battery. All the literature I've come across says that to ensure long term reliability, you need to maintain the batteries on a float charger. So far I've been happy with the results. Just another data point for you.
 
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My RV7A had not flown much in the year before I bought it. The 680 was getting weak so I replaced it and also bought a 25A Odessy charger. That was 16 months ago. I fly about 3 to 5 times every two weeks and have had three instances where it would not crank in the past 6 weeks. It seems to charge back up but I no longer trust it. I plan on load testing it later this week and may replace it.

Regardless, I am wondering what, if anything, other folks are using for maintenance? Can you use a Battery Tender Plus? I have no problem leaving it plugged in when I am out of town but I know the literature says to only use their brand charger which I am afraid to leave on constantly.
Tom M.

Try cycling it a few times on the bench. I use a car headlight to run it down, drawing about 4 Amps. Then recharge using a 12 A Odyssey charger. My 3rd one mentioned in prior post drops down to 12.0 vdc after 2-3wks. Odyssey says you can leave them plugged into their list of recommended chargers indefinitely.
 
Does anyone have experience with the EarthX ETX lithium batteries? (a VAF advertiser) The specs on their website compare favorably to the PC680. I'd like to hear from anybody who has tried going with one of their batteries.
 
my pc680 just died after one year, which is why I am reading these posts. I left the master on while the charger was plugged in as well. the battery shows zero volts and I am told it is dead. I have had odyssey batteries before and left the master on and not had problems with recharging them. I use an intelligent charger I bought at batteries plus ($40?). obviously I need a more fool-proof system so that I quit leaving the master switch on [just been lazy not wanting to crawl under the panel]. what I am reading, however, makes me question buying another odyssey battery.
 
My maintenance plan for PC680's is pretty simple - I do absolutely nothing. I got 6+ years out of my first one and didn't even charge it if the airplane sat for a month. All subsequent PC680's have been just as reliable. They just always turn the engine over with vigor. Couldn't ask for anything more from them.
 
I have connected my Odyssey Battery after every flight for the last 4 -1/2 years to a Battery Tender Plus. Still working great
 
so have I. I used to use the harbor freight ones for years and no problems. then bought a $40 intelligent tender and went thru 2 pc680 in 3 years. I'm thinking this last one was simply because I left the master on AND the tender plugged in, which ran it to zero volts, whereas when I left the master on before the charger wasn't plugged in and would only run down to 8-10 volts.
 
Another PC 680 failure

Just had my 2nd pc680 failure in 4 yrs. The first was probably my fault as I let it run down and abused it during initial testing. However the 2nd one was installed in December 2012 and was never run down, I fly every week and never used a charger. Just went out last week and it didn't have enough power to start. It charged back up to 12.9 V in a matter of minutes ( trickle charge) but stil wouldn't start. Took it to Pep Boys and they said it only had 70 out of 220 CCA. I plan to check the solinoid and other potential sources of battery drains.
 
Are we not seeing a pattern here yet? I really think AGM technology still needs some engineering work before jumping into the next new whiz bang battery type. If it is like most things I sell, the quality in materials is just not there anymore.
 
I'm wondering if the "pattern" is the over use of battery chargers. After all, our airplanes generally have alternators just like cars do - and how many of us put the charger on our cars when we get home from a drive?
 
Just a note - -

Do not recall an RV-12 owner having a problem with this battery. No question the demand is light by comparison. Most start in 3 seconds. I put a charger on it once before 1st start, and have not since. Mine is 5 years old, and shows no sign of loss. Light demand likely explains low or no problems using the Rotax engine.
 
Okay, I've been watching this thread for a while. Here's my story.

I have a PC-925 in an RV-10. It's mounted on its side (they say that's okay).
I'm now on my second one in three years. Here's the symptom:
Voltage reads 12.7 volts. But turn on the avionics and after just 3 minutes it's down to 12.1 volts. After that, further decreases proceed slowly. If I put it on Odyssee's recommended charger, it charges and changes to maintenance/trickle charge in just a few minutes. Voltage is 12.7. But turn on the avionics, get the same quick drop to 12.1. The battery acts as if it has lost the top 30% of its capacity. Both batteries have displayed the same symptoms. I tried the "drain down then re-charge" multiple times, with little success.

Can being on its side be a factor?
 
Okay, I've been watching this thread for a while. Here's my story.

I have a PC-925 in an RV-10. It's mounted on its side (they say that's okay).
I'm now on my second one in three years. Here's the symptom:
Voltage reads 12.7 volts. But turn on the avionics and after just 3 minutes it's down to 12.1 volts. After that, further decreases proceed slowly. If I put it on Odyssee's recommended charger, it charges and changes to maintenance/trickle charge in just a few minutes. Voltage is 12.7. But turn on the avionics, get the same quick drop to 12.1. The battery acts as if it has lost the top 30% of its capacity. Both batteries have displayed the same symptoms. I tried the "drain down then re-charge" multiple times, with little success.

Can being on its side be a factor?

I have a 925L on its side and a 680 aux upright beside it. 3 yrs and no problems with 925L. 12.8 V after sitting 3-4 weeks. Can't say the same for the 3rd 680.
 
My first PC680 purchased new last year lasted 11 months. I used it for avionics/electrical systems testing for about 2 months before I started flying it, but only put the odyssey charger on it after 30-45 min of use. Since my first flight last December it hasn't seen the charger at all, flying at least once every 2 weeks and 70ish hours in 8 months. Thankful it died on my very next flight after returning from OSH:eek:, no issues noted in the flights previous to it failing. After 2 rounds on the charger it did start the airplane for a local flight. The next day it was dead, after several rounds on the charger about 30 minutes total it started the airplane. Right after charging the voltage would read 12.6 volts, but no amps for starting.
 
sounds like sulfation is my issue

Found a prior discussion on issue: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=108220

This thread describes exactly what is happening to my battery. It sounds like AGM batterys if not completely charged between flights promotes sulfation. I have a new battery on order but will try to desulfate my old battery. I may need to rethink my battery maintenance procedures or actually have maintenance procedures. I plan to try the "Batteryminder" with desulfation capability. Also it sounds like I need to discharge the battery a little before placing on the charger.
 
Im not sure what to order now. I am about ready to get a battery and I am all set up for the 680. I am not sure I want one after reading about all the troubles. I for sure will not buy one until I am completely finished building and ready to start flying. I will pick up a cheap car battery to use for testing.

I don't need the light battery because I have a 9A with a Catto up front. Maybe I should just get an old fashioned battery! Any thoughts?
 
PC680

The only issue I have seen is letting the voltage go to zero (by leaving the master on). A buddy did that and he had to do some special procedures to just get it take a charge, and get it recharged. Although it said it was fully charged, etc. it never really was the same after that incident, and he eventually just bought a new one. No issues other than that, and I'm happy with mine at the 2 yr. point in my RV-3A and I haven't let it run down and always put my battery minder on after flying it...
 
Im not sure what to order now. I am about ready to get a battery and I am all set up for the 680. I am not sure I want one after reading about all the troubles. I for sure will not buy one until I am completely finished building and ready to start flying. I will pick up a cheap car battery to use for testing.

I don't need the light battery because I have a 9A with a Catto up front. Maybe I should just get an old fashioned battery! Any thoughts?

My gut tells me that the data we have is inconclusive. Like most things in life, only those that are displeased express their displeasure. We don't know how many aren't having any issues. We don't know if the sampling here is a small or large percentage of the install base.

I have two PC680s that are about three years old and I've been flying for about a year. Before flying I used them extensively while testing avionics. I would leave them on the Oddessy charger overnight on those sessions. Once flying, I discovered a parasitic drain problem with my ELT. I couldn't keep the battery charged. Once I solved this problem, my batteries haven't been on a charger since.

I'm not saying that there isn't an issue, but just that we don't know the order of magnitude that is the problem.
 
My gut tells me that the data we have is inconclusive. Like most things in life, only those that are displeased express their displeasure. We don't know how many aren't having any issues. We don't know if the sampling here is a small or large percentage of the install base.

I am on my second PC680 and very happy. First one took me through the build and the first 300 hours (2 years) of flying. Got the second and it now has 5 years and 350 hours on it. I use no charger, just fly every week. It has even been drained down to barely turning the prop before final getting a start, due to hot start issues I have been experiencing lately, and it charges right back up in just a short flight.
 
There is a percentage of customers of any product that is not satisfied. And the unhappy customers are more likely to post online than the satisfied customers. Take a look at the reviews on Amazon for any product and there will be about 10 percent that are not satisfied. I suspect that any brand of battery will have just as many unhappy customers as the Oddessy brand. Van's Aircraft chose the PC680 for the RV-12.
Joe Gores
 
There is a percentage of customers of any product that is not satisfied. And the unhappy customers are more likely to post online than the satisfied customers.

While this is the common wisdom and is probably true in most cases, this case seems to an exception.

In 2010-2011 I researched the PC680 on VAF, and I can't remember a single negative report. Everything I read said that these batteries lasted years. Sadly, that has not been my experience, and this thread (and others in the past year or so) seem to reflect a shift in VAF experiences from totally positive to a goodly number of negatives, starting in about 2011. This is a small sample, but it does seem to be worth considering

My gut tells me that the "problem" is not in any specific user technique, since many have had good results doing the same things that others have had trouble with. If I had to guess, we are seeing some kind of decrease in product quality, i.e. more "bad" batteries are being produced, for whatever reason.

However, I thought of one issue that has not been discussed. On most of my flights I land, taxi to the fuel pumps, shut down, refuel, restart, and taxi to the hangar. This last taxi is less than 5 minutes, and the battery is not fully recharged (still taking charging at 8-10 amps) when I shut down. I wonder if this could be a common thread in the problems. Does anyone else who is having PC680 problems do this?

Thanks for all the good comments.

-John
 
However, I thought of one issue that has not been discussed. On most of my flights I land, taxi to the fuel pumps, shut down, refuel, restart, and taxi to the hangar. This last taxi is less than 5 minutes, and the battery is not fully recharged (still taking charging at 8-10 amps) when I shut down. I wonder if this could be a common thread in the problems. Does anyone else who is having PC680 problems do this?

That is what I do and I had good results per my post above. Recently, with my hot start issues, I have run the battery down during the restart for the taxi to hangar and have "recharged" the battery by going back flying for 20 minutes. Much funnier, faster, and easier they getting out the battery charger. Battery has worked like a champ the next time I fly. Knock knock [on wood]
 
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Battery issues..

Well I too am having Battery problems..

I have (had) a Concord RG35 in my RV-4 and today it finally fail to start the engine once too many times.....

It shows a full charge (12.8) but has no power to crack the engine.

I like what I'm reading about the 680 ( eventough some are having issues,overall it seems pretty robust) but I would have to modified my battery box to use one so are there any other batteries that you will recommend that have basically the same dimension as a Concord RG35?????

Tried the Gill before but wasn't impressed with the performance..

Thanks

Bruno
 
Well I too am having Battery problems..

I have (had) a Concord RG35 in my RV-4 and today it finally fail to start the engine once too many times.....

It shows a full charge (12.8) but has no power to crack the engine.

I like what I'm reading about the 680 ( eventough some are having issues,overall it seems pretty robust) but I would have to modified my battery box to use one so are there any other batteries that you will recommend that have basically the same dimension as a Concord RG35?????

Tried the Gill before but wasn't impressed with the performance..

Thanks

Bruno

Bruno,

Many PC-680's have found homes in RV-4 and RV-6 battery boxes that formerly had a Concorde. All you need are some foam or wood blocks to use as spacers to hold the PC-680 in place. If having combustible materials in the box is a concern, it would be easy to fab up some aluminum brackets.

The PC-925 might be a better fit but I haven't tried it, maybe someone who has can offer input.
 
Bruno,


The PC-925 might be a better fit but I haven't tried it, maybe someone who has can offer input.

A PC-925 fits very well left-right in the stock battery box in a -10 (designed for a Concord XG-25, I think?) IF the PC-925 is mounted on its side, which Odyssee says is okay to do. Fore - aft there is about an inch of extra space; I riveted in an aluminum angle to take care of that. Depending on where your cg is you can choose to mount the battery a little bit more forward, or a bit more aft!
 
Battery

Sam & Bob

Thank you for the info

A PC-925 will be nice as it has a lot of cranking power but I'm not sure I will be able to fit it.

A 680 with the hold down bracket might work,I'll have to check this out.

Also they are both cheaper than the RG-25XC I had in the a/c..

Bruno
 
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