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RV-Twin

Beech 18 triple

Beech experimented with some triple combinations on the 18 frame in the 50s. I do not know if any are still around but there are pictures in some of the Be 18 books that are out.

The RV 82 idea floated up in the RV 8 section a while back. That looks like a lot more fun to me......
 
Delta Wing RV7?

So, the turbine powered 7, looked retarded.... least my version of it did so, how about a Delta Wing, V Tail RV7A?
RV22A.jpg
 
RV22A

Very nice John - but you need to get rid of the curves on the wheel pants....radar reflectors you know. Need more faceting! ;)

This would be good for those occasional TFR violations! :cool:

Paul
 
Wow, looks keen. And who knew that Duckworks has a kit for the delta wing already!

mcb
 
Hypethetical RV cargo plane

When picking up his Cessna 185 i had just completed, a customer of mine and i were talking about a dirt biking trip he was headed off to. Jokingly i asked him if his C185, could carry a dirt bike. He laughed abit and then said "Yeah i can, but where the **** would you put it?" We talked about all kinds of silly ideas, put the plane on floats, then tie the bike to them, etc, etc, i think the fumes were getting to us both. Later on while prepping some RV cowlings, I got to thinking "Yeah! Where the **** could something like that be put?"
I have heard of larger amphibious aircraft storing jetskis in thier sponsons, i have seen some of my customers carrying parts and pieces of other aircraft with in anonther plane, the funniest was a guy taking home some wing struts for a C152, in his Yankee.

If a twin fuselage RV, or anything else for that matter was created, like the P82, would it need to have a second "cockpit" like the P82 in the link posted earlier? Could that entire side of the aircraft not be used for cargo? If a standard RV9 lets say can haul 2 adults at roughly 175lbs each, instrumentation, totalling around 25lbs, seats, interior bits, lexan canopy, and windshield all totaling around 100lbs, would that make a useful (although very rediculous) light cargo plane? Would that not be roughly 475lbs of useful load capability? Of course, a pick up truck and/or Fed Ex trumps easily, all these ideas. Just a thought i figured i would bounce off the class. :eek:
 
Single vs. twin

I'm sure John Johansen can tell us a lot about long overwater flights with a single engine. That, I'm sure, requires a great deal of confidence in one's engine, combined with comparable amounts of gonadal reserve...
In my case, and specially on frequent jaunts across long stretches of the Sea of Cortez enroute to Cabo on the Baja peninsula, the extra motor on a twin is not for the additional speed. The virtue of it is the comfort it affords the pilot and occupants in consideration of the long swim that would have to be faced in an engine out situation in a single. Recurrent training and a professional attitude about flying are essential, regardless of the type of aircraft.
TN
B-58
C-180
Pitts S2A
RV-8QB
 
Don't laugh...

Somewhere I have a picture of a J-3 or PA-18 (Super Cub) in flight with a bike hanking from it's struts. The guy used pipe clamps to hold it in place. Very cool idea and might just work with the 182.
 
Multi engine rating any one

Did any one mention you will need a multi engine rating?
Insurance?

As a multi engine instructor survivor you all touched on the pros and cons and made a few jokes, like the don't worry we have two engines folks, the second engine will get us to the scene of the accident. Gallows humor for sure but its funny because its partly true.


MULTI ENGINE MATH/PERFORMANCE

A light twin typically will lose 80% of its climb performance with the loss of one engine.

To make the math easy for example:

The RV-twin has two 100hp engines and you need 80 hp for straight and level. That means you have 120 hp for climb. Lose one engine you now have 20 hp for climb. Going from 120 to 20 hp is about 83% loss in hp/climb rate.

The two engine climb was say 1200 fpm at 120 mph, gross wt. It is going to be less than a 200hp RV because of the extra weight and increased drag.

Now your twin is single engine, you lose power and have extra drag. Is the prop windmilling? A little twin may not have feathering props? If so than add cost and more weight for the feathering props.

So lets ignore the prop drag, say its zero; Say just on HP lose you have 83% less climb or 1200 x 0.17 = 200 fpm. Your Vse climb speed is a little faster, now 128 mph.

The climb gradient is about 2 sm per minute and 200 feet. So to get to pattern altitude (1000 agl) would take 5 min or 10 miles. WOW that is nap of the earth flying, watch out for the TV antenna. Now to get this 200 fpm, you must fly perfectly, with 3-5 degrees banked into the good engine and had zero side slip. This is all at sea level of course. If at Denver your climb rate would be a negative 200 fpm.​

My point is light twin engine planes have two engines because they need them. Light twins do add redundancy and some options if flying at cruise or light, but at gross weight at high density your single engine climb rate may not really give you a takeoff, lose engine and continue option. In fact it almost means you're not going to get far. Of course not all light twins are the same.

Service ceiling for many light twins is only say 5000 ft. That is a 50 fpm climb rate at service ceiling for twins (100 fpm for singles). If you drift down your absolute ceiling may be a little higher, but its not that high. Jets even run into this flying over high parts of the world. They need drift down calculations to fly some routes. Although airline jets have very high single engine altitude capability and takeoff climb is guaranteed for that airport and conditions. Big difference in transport category twins and light twins.

DID YOU KNOW: Light twins need only "demonstrate" a sea level, gross weight "rate of climb" for certification. Well that sounds fine but that demonstrated rate of climb can be negative. All the regs say is they must document it, it does not have to be positive! Many light twins have marginal SE climb rates. I owned a 160 hp Apache. I flew it solo or with one passenger a lot, with half fuel (it had lots of fuel capacity in 4 tanks). At sea level and light, single engine climb was not too bad. However on a hot day, gross wt, the climb it would be anemic, positive but poor. I never found out. I would NOT want to be in that spot, you know, rock and hard place. They made a 150hp version of the Apache.

I flew a Seneca II, Part 135, that lost power in one engine in cruise. I was able to drift down, fly an approach and land at destination. I was not heavy, the conditions where sea level and weather was MVFR. If it was a single engine plane, I would have no option would I.

However many times the option for a twin engine plane is the same as a single engine plane, pick a place and land. In the Seneca II example, if I was flying over Denver, hot summer day, full gross, I may not have had such a good shot. I would have to hold flaps and gear to the last moment, to hold speed and descent on approach in severe conditions. :eek: Single engine performance assumes clean and feathered. If you can't get the prop feathered all bets are off.

Can you imagine if you where not real current on your multi-procedures, tired and things got stacked against. You where distracted from airspeed control............you get the picture.

The more complex the plane the more is demanded of the pilot. Single engine performance in light twins means the plane is configured, prop feathered, gear up and you are flying zero slip. With one engine you have the rudder deflected towards the good engine, which makes you skid sideways in the opposite direction. To counter that you must bank into the good engine a few degrees (2-5 deg).

Multi engine pilots get into trouble because they get too slow and go under Min Control Speed (Vmc). That is where the asymmetric thrust is greater than the rudders authority and the plane yaws and rolls uncontrollably. The solution is simple lower the nose for more speed (more rudder authority) and/or reduce power on the operating engine (reduce asymmetric thrust the real problem). Of course if this is for real, low to the ground, lowering the nose and/or reducing power means you will hit the ground. At least it will be under control. That is what you practice for the rating (but at altitude). Add flaps, gear, cowl flaps, six levers (mixture, throttle, props), two or 4 boost pumps, 4 mags, 4 tanks, three or four tank selectors and cross feeds, you have a hand full in an emergency. Add IFR to the mix, single pilot and you can see you have to be on your game. I would not recommend a twin for a sport plane. There is the AirCam. http://www.leza-aircam.com/

Does anyone really want a twin engine sport plane? To remain current and safe would be work. Single engine is fine, just maintain it like your life depeneded on it, because it kind-a does. :rolleyes:
 
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gmcjetpilot said:
.....
Does anyone really want a twin engine sport plane? To remain current and safe would be work. Single engine is fine, just maintain it like your life depeneded on it, because it kind-a does. :rolleyes:

The only twin engine sport plane I would want is the Defiant. Fact is, I was all set to buy the plan when Burt Rutan pulled the plug on it. That airplane was OK on one engine.....just fly it. I've forgotten how much runway was needed to take off on one engine, but it would.
 
IN-line twins, a good idea that gets no respect.

David-aviator said:
The only twin engine sport plane I would want is the Defiant. Fact is, I was all set to buy the plan when Burt Rutan pulled the plug on it. That airplane was OK on one engine.....just fly it. I've forgotten how much runway was needed to take off on one engine, but it would.
I have always liked the in-line twins like the Cessna 337 mix-master (skymaster), but it never took off in sales.

cessna_337_skymaster.jpg


For one thing in-line twins don't have that macho, big engines hanging off the wings look. The in-line twins don't appeal to the steely eyed intrepid twin engine pilot who wants to display his two big engines out on the wing.

I like the Adams A500, another Rutan inspired (I think he helped design it) in-line twin.
A5-AA_215-250.jpg


http://www.adamaircraft.com/home.asp

It makes too much sense. The down side of the 337 was also the access to the rear engine was terrible I guess and a maintenance nightmare. They also used only 210hp IO360 and TIO360 Continentals (little six banger). That engine has mix history, especially the turbo version.

Besides the Rutan Defiant, there was the Boomarang, an asymmetric looking design that was actually from an aerodynamic standpoint (according to Rutan, and don't don't it) was better than a conventional twin in single engine ops. It was a one off, but people did make Defiant's. I one for said on eBay and recall it had some hours on it. Always a good sign with a home built, when they have been flown a lot. (pic of a Rutan defiant in back ground and boomarang foreground)

z4474_boomerang_defiant.jpg
 
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Old thread, but I remembered all of you asking why there wasn't a twin kit.

This might fit the bill, and if DeltaHawk ever actually builds engines might be a real performer with 320hp worth of turbonormalized twin diesels...

Aerocat Amphibian

You might even get your motorcycle in the back!

Bit pricey, though... :)
 
Don't forget the GEMINI CH 620 from Zenith and based on the CH 610.


Features the GEMINI will borrow from the ZODIAC CH 601 line include:

Proven Easy-Build All-Metal Construction
Comfortable Side-by-Side Seating
Full Dual Controls
Outstanding 360-degree Visibility (Bubble Canopy)
Excellent short and rough field capability
High Useful Load
Delightful and Responsive Controls
Complete Quick-Build Kits
 
Why?

has Vans ever considered a twin engine kit?
i've seen a couple of other kit manufacturers working on them and think a vans would sell quite well.
The grass is always greener, but why a twin? :eek: At $4.50 a gal I don't want to feed a second engine.


Pilot overheard talking to passengers after one engine quits: "Don't worry the good engine will get us to the scene of the accident."

As a CFI, inst & multi engine, I have seen some of these so called "twins". I think they are jokes frankly, not really suitable for twin training.


The one that comes to mind is the AirCam has utility as a STOL Camera platform (thus air-"CAM"). However it slow and not designed to carry the mail. If you where current as PIC in an AirCam, it would not qualify you to fly a C-310, Seneca or Baron. The AirCam was designed for a camera platform to fly over remote locations, so I can see some justification on two engines.

Single engine performance of say the Aircam or Diamond? I don't know, but suspect, gross, high density altitude it would be anemic (like all light twins). Most all "twin lites" have either fixed non feathering props and/or fixed gear. Just doing the math. single engine performance, losing 1/2 of your power, means you loose 80% of your performance! That's only if you feather a prop, retract the gear and bank up to 5 degrees into the good engine. Other wise you lost 110% of your performance, ie coming down, involuntary descent, not flying any more. You have the extra weight and drag of the dead engine. Trust me its a lot of drag. Lite twins have two engines because THEY NEED THEM.

If you where going to design a twin with the speed and utility of a single engine RV it would be a large, complicated and an expensive plane. John thorp developed some twins, T-17 and later T-28 in the 60's, which later became the basis of the "Wing Derringer Twin", made by Derringer Aircraft LLC.; it was a neat looking plane, done decades ago and certified! The Derringer was cool for sure, but than gas was less than $1.00/gal.

wac68derringer.jpg
f709_1.JPG



As good as the Derringer was, is (still some flying) it had the performance of a RV-8 with a 200HP engine. May be a little more bags but still two seats. http://www.airstuff.com/PPJune79.html They are rare to say the least, but an equivalent with 4-seats, that is not rare and obtainable, is the Piper - Twin Comanche PA-30/39. I have a good bit of time in the twin Comanche and its a nice plane, IO320's and very nice flush riveted wing. (Go look at single or twin Comanche wing; its a work of art.) Here is the deal, at this time, you can buy a one in good condition (for a +35 year old plane) for ($100K) or get a tired one and fix it up with engine/prop and panel overhaul ($140k) for cheaper than you could build some "Twin lite" kit. Performance is a little better than a RV-10, LINK. If I had to have a twin the PA-30/39 would be high on the list with max cruise of approx 193 mph (over 233 mph for turbo PA-39), basically RV performance with 4-seats. With an aftermarket STOL kit, drooping ailerons they had good field length performance (no RV STOL, just real good for a 3600 lb MTOW twin). The down side, like all Comanches, twin or single, the prop/ground clearance is minimal, so you have to be careful on soft surfaces. There are also lots of STC for speed products, LoPresti Cowls, Knots2U gap fairings. I think taking an old tired one and "restoring it" would be well worth it and less money and time than building an equivalent "TWIN KIT" that does not exist.
0572381.jpg
 
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I like the push/pull idea too just need way cheaper engines. I'm working on a Suzuki G13 engine at the moment. Very nice engine with regards to weight, design and cost. Couple of these turbocharged... (yes, I know Van would never endorse this idea :()

120hp per end, maybe $6500-$7000 each with SPG-2 gearboxes and turbos/ EFI. Put this in a slick 2 place with baggage space in the booms. Cool 210 knots TAS on 15 gal./hr.
 
It looks like a wimp

The Skymaster failed because it had a small cabin with virtually no baggage space.
It failed because it was not sexy.

A traditional twin, two big macho engine nacelles hanging off the wing like bulging biceps, requiring a steely eyed pilot :rolleyes:, that must fly the plane with skill and cunning if one engine quits.

The mix-master, push-me-pull-me, with its two little girly man split tail twin booms and no "danger" of needing superior pilot skill to control the beast, in the event of engine failure. Also practically speaking engine access and maintenance was a pain.

I am not saying this is a good reason to not like the C337, just the fact, guys are into macho. I like the mix master design for the obvious safety reasons. The Rutan version mix-master, now the Adams is pretty cool. I bet they don't sell many. Partly for the reasons I mention, sex appeal but also cost. A new piston twin cost almost as one of those new very light jets. You can go out and buy a used Baron for a fraction of new twins. I think a new Baron last I checked was pushing three quarter million! I never flew a C337 but I also suspect noise and vibration was a little higher than the traditional twin designs. Of course a version of the C337 is a war bird (O-2), forward air control in Vietnam.
 
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I know a guy who took a pressurized 337 on trade reluctantly with the thought of dumping it quickly. Turns out he really liked it and put close to 4000 hours on it. Said it would hold 16-18K on one engine where most other turbo twins he'd owned (lots) would not. He was regularly over the Rockies so liked that part a bunch.

The Adam looks ok to me. I'd take one if offered.

Vans could sew up the experimental twin market with something like this but maybe not realistic with $40K+ worth of traditional engines bolted to it. Hey, even if the engines were not too reliable, you still have another one!

The Zenith has been on hold for over 5 years and would be deadly slow and ugly with that big fat wing he likes to use.
 
Coupla thoughts

Regarding the Twin Comanche, in the 80's I owned a P210 and flew a Turbo Twin Comanche a bunch. The speeds, weights, fuel consumption, and cabin size were almost identical between the two airplanes, but I prefered the 210. I never did figure out how to make consistently good landings in the Comanche, solo. I would think again about refurbishing a Twin Comanche. It would be a real money pit, and then you would have a 40 year old orphan airplane that you might have trouble selling for the money you had spent. That is one of the appeals of RVs: they are NEW airplanes. And about as fast as a 210 or Twin Comanche.

I used to see Ernie Gann's Wing Derringer at Boeing Field and Tacoma Industrial airport around that time. It was a cute little jewel. (He also had a 310 he called the Noon Balloon because he could never get an early start. He flew it down to Patagonia and back and wrote it up in Flying.) I think the reason we don't see more light twins like the Derringer is that, excepting the need for light twin trainers, most people have concluded that they would rather have one big engine rather than two smaller ones. I'd take a new RV10 over an old Twin Comanche in a heartbeat. I doubt anyone could design an RV style twin that could match or beat the RV10 in multiple categories, such as cost, payload, or speed. For sure it would be much heavier, more complex, and more expensive to build and operate. No thanks, not for me.

Regarding light twin performance with an engine out, consider this. A DC-3 at very light weight (about 18,000 lbs.), gear down, dead engine windmilling, will still climb at 450 fpm! Try that in any light twin.
 
Soloy Dual Pack

I belive Soloy was working on such a contrivance several years ago. Two PT-6s mated together, driving a single propeller shaft. Called it a "TwinPack", I think. Not sure why it never saw the light of day.

If something like that ever made it to the flying public, I doubt (or should I say "hope logic would prevail at the FAA") you would be required to have a Multi-Engine Rating to fly it. The purpose of a MEL is to ensure you are aware of and can handle the unique flying characteristics encountered when a multi-engine airplane loses one of its engines. You have none of those unique characteristics in an airplane of they type you're describing.

It exists and I got to fly it in 1995. I knew Joe Soloy and his son-in-law, Scott Smith, both wonderful people. The Soloy Dual Pack was a Cessna 208B Grand Caravan with two PT6D-114A gas turbine engines driving a single five blade Hartzell propeller through a combining gear box of Soloy design. It featured automatic disengagement of the inoperative engine. No immediate pilot action was required if an engine failed, even on take-off, and in cruise flight you could hardly tell if an engine was pulled to idle, it only lost a few mph. No trim changes at all, no increase in drag, nothing. Just a decrease in climb rate and speed. There was a beefy fireproof bulkhead between the two engines to prevent fraticide if one let go. It featured a bulbous but attractive engine cowling that in flight reminded me of my '53 Chevy, about the same size and shape as the hood and front fenders minus the hood ornament. The airplane had a six foot fuselage plug installed aft of the wing to make it bigger. Gross weight was increased to 10,500 from 8,750. It flew just like a big 210, very easy, great handling, easy to make good landings. It was still undergoing testing when I flew it and the engines were limited to something like 1000 hp total due to the unproven fuselage structure. Even so, it had phenomenal take-off and climb performance at the light weight I flew it. They expected to get the horsepower up to 1329. The prop was reversible and it could literally stop this big airplane ( 52' span, 49' length) on a dime. I think the thing that hobbled the project was FAA approval of the stock single engine Caravan for part 135 IFR operations. That was FedEx flexing their muscles. That took away a lot of the reason for two engines. Still, a fantastic concept and a rocking good airplane.
 
Ravin

Ravin needs to update their estimates for avionics. $8000 to $14000 is a real joke. :) That barely gets you VFR these days.
Hot looking plane!
 
From the "It's-Not-An-RC-Model-Plane" Dept.

There is a well-known experimental plans-built twin out there:

The Cri-Cri :D

Two engines, but only one seat!
 
The purpose of the second engine on a twin

Is to take you to the scene of the crash!

At least that is what the accident statistics seem to say.
 
Multi-eng helo.

A friend of mine in the military flew Blackhawks and they have a two engine one rotor configuration. When he got out and was looking for flying jobs he found that all his time in the hawk would be considered single engine time as it only has one propulshion (sp) unit. And on top of that his 1500 hrs in type is questioned by some places as it is not a certified aircraft either!!! Military aircraft are not certified aircraft, probably better. He eventually found a job in the DEA flying blackhawks chasing drug runners down in the islands.

Not considered single engine...just doesn't COUNT as single eng time...sounds small, but it is a BIG difference. Not true about the certification either, many fine military aircraft are born from, produced in parallel to, or conceive civilian variants...all have the blessing of the FAA or they would not be flying in our sky's.
 
Cri-cri not quite a twin

Do you need a multi-engine rating to fly one of those?

Kent

I recall the UK CAA, when first asked, said a multi-rating was required.
But when asked if it could all be logged as multi-engine time, they decided it was a special case and would be treated as a single.

Apparently the assymetric thrust effect is almost negligible.

Personally, I don't favour the fuel tank being between your knees.
 
Not considered single engine...just doesn't COUNT as single eng time...sounds small, but it is a BIG difference. Not true about the certification either, many fine military aircraft are born from, produced in parallel to, or conceive civilian variants...all have the blessing of the FAA or they would not be flying in our sky's.

If a two-engine/single-prop combo is a "single", is a single-engine/dual-prop a "multi"? :) LOL! (I'm thinking of the RR Griffon)...

What if you had a single engine driving two props, a la a Skymaster? And each prop could be separately controlled in RPM or pitch?

(I like hypotheticals...can you tell? :) ).
 
I did one flight in a Wing Derringer at Mojave a few years ago. Its O-320s had been replaced by O-360s. I was expecting it to be quite the performer, but I was very disappointed. It probably had lower performance than an O-360 powered RV-6.

I had one flight in the Derringer as well. I was dating Nicki Nash, the daughter of the Hi-Shear Corporation president. I had just graduated from Air Force pilot training in 1970 and was visiting Nicki at her home in the Rolling Hills Estates overlooking Torrence Airport, home of Wing Aircraft (a subsidiary of Hi-Shear Corporation, founded by George Wing) in southern California. Mr. Nash was excited to have my opinion of the airplane and we headed out to the airport early on the morning after I arrived in town. He showed me around the little plane which was designed by John Thorpe. It originally had twin Contintental O-200s with fixed pitch props. The one I flew had Lyc IO-320s with featherable Hartzell props. I don't remember any of the details of the flight except that I was comfortable flying the little airplane, knowing that the co-founder of the company was by my side in case anything went wrong. I only learned after we got down on the ground that Mr. Nash was not a pilot! He was an avid golfer and proudly showed me how two sets of golf clubs would easily fit in the little airplane. Over thirty years later I saw the same airplane hanging in the Boeing Museum of Flight in Seattle. It must have been on loan because the museum no longer lists the Derringer as one of it's assets.


derringer.jpg

The aircraft in this photo has been a visitor to Sun-n-Fun for the past two years!
 
Any old timers remember Van's April fools joke back in the late 80's? He published an article in the RVaitor about a twin fuselage RV-4 concept, similar to the P-82 twin mustang. There was a drawing of it along with a report on a stealthy fact finding trip to the CAF to look at the P-82. The give-away was that he said they flew down to Arlington in a C-172 (if I recall correctly.) I think the twin RV-4 was going to be called the RV-8. Lot's of guys thought it was serious and it took a while to straighten everyone out.

Wish I still had that RVaitor issue. It went with the plans and manual when I sold my kit.

I am truely surprised that no enterprising builder hasn't attempted this... I am envisioning landing gear from an Arrow that fold up into the belly of each fuselage... C/R 180HP engines/props from a Twin Commanche, tapered outer wings...4 place...
 
2 cockpits, 2 pilots

A couple of other interesting thoughts related to the P82 configuration:

1) for some reason, the idea of 2 pilots in 2 separate cockpits seems worrisome to me. CRM in an emergency would be interesting, especially with an electrical (intercom) failure.

2) I believe the original P82 avoided this scenario by having controls in only one cockpit. That idea seems even scarier.:eek:

M
 
Boy, people talk about "the wife" not wanting to be relegated to the backseat hole in a tandem...imagine if she had to sit in a different fuselage entirely...

:p

LOL! if only if flying makes "the wife" uneasy. If shes also a pilot, that 2nd fuselage seat is an upgrade.
 
A couple of other interesting thoughts related to the P82 configuration:

1) for some reason, the idea of 2 pilots in 2 separate cockpits seems worrisome to me. CRM in an emergency would be interesting, especially with an electrical (intercom) failure.

2) I believe the original P82 avoided this scenario by having controls in only one cockpit. That idea seems even scarier.:eek:

M

Thoughts on your thoughts...

1) Even more worrisome, a non-pilot in a seperate cockpit during something as simple as a light crosswind landing thinking they need to "help out"...

2) P-82s were configured in both ways. Long range fighters had two pilots. Night fighters had a pilot and a radar operator.

In a dual control twin fuselage experimental, each pilot, (or passenger) must have defined roles in the event of an emergency (intercom failure) extra redundant systems in case of said emergency (backup com) and all this is gone over before going up. In reality, a properly briefed passenger "on the other side" really becomes no different than if he/she was sitting next to you in a -6 or -7... just a little more "prep"...
 
In reality, a properly briefed passenger "on the other side" really becomes no different than if he/she was sitting next to you in a -6 or -7... just a little more "prep"...

Except that you can't knock the **** out of him if necessary!

Ideal situation would be a "fly-by-wire" system wherein the PIC could disable the other controls if necessary.
 
Twin

This one probably has the best chance of working. Velocity's twin. Only problem is we will have to sell our tools and buy sanding blocks. AOPA did a good story on it.
8446970239_46cbc87441_z.jpg
 
[snot] was not what I typed. But what I typed was not a "bad" word either.

Don't you just love censorship?
 
LOL! if only if flying makes "the wife" uneasy. If shes also a pilot, that 2nd fuselage seat is an upgrade.

Or if, as in my case, she just wants her own plane. When she brought up the prospect of starting another build for her once my -8 is done, I suggested maybe she could do a -7 or -14 for additional flexibility between the two of us. Her response? "No way, I want a tandem, it's way cooler!"

*sigh*
 
If you really want a twin then go read the article in AOPA on the twin velocity. The only drawback aside from building it seems to be running gas through 2 engines. Of course that is the exact reason why 95% of us don't want a twin in the first place.

John Morgan
 
i really like the burt rutan twin- brain fart... name.... push pull. anyway the new velocity twin is pretty too. if i ever get a twin i will try to buy into a club that has one with many shares. seriously how often would i fly it? 4 times a year?
 
This one probably has the best chance of working. Velocity's twin. Only problem is we will have to sell our tools and buy sanding blocks. AOPA did a good story on it.
8446970239_46cbc87441_z.jpg

Love this airplane, but you could get a twin commanche with all the speed mods and nice avionics, and still have over $100K left for avgas.
 
Yeah, but nobody even blinks when a Twin Comanche lands.

That's a valid consideration - I flew into SJT a couple weeks ago for lunch with the parents, and there's a Piaggio Avanti parked on the ramp. I drooled on myself for a while...
 
single prop, two engines

Here's an interesting question. If you have 1 propellor driven by 2 engines via some sort of gearbox, is that a twin or a very funky single? I'm not suggesting anyone do this but I am curious how that's classified. I could make a good argument that the two engines coupled with gearbox is no more 2 engines than 6 pistons coupled with a crankshaft is 6 engines.

That's a partial quote from several years ago.

I think two engines with a single prop makes sense, a hybrid. Use two (smaller) counter-rotating engines driving a common alternator, then the alternator powers an electric motor which drives the propellor. Either or both engines could be used for normal flight, while both would be engaged for takeoffs and landings.

An engine loss in a single means the plane is going to lose altitude. With inadequate training (that would be me), the risk of losing control in a twin outweighs any confidence gained by the second engine. With a twin, it might not go down, but if it does, it might be inverted.

A hybrid might mean more weight than a twin, but the electric aspect allows more options for engine placement away from the prop. Also less drag with just one prop and by placing both engines in the fuse.

An aeronautical engineer is working on something similar to the above hybrid but his idea allows more placement options for better weight distribution?the difference is instead of two engines driving an alternator, there is a single engine driving an alternator that powers the prop motor, while the alternator also charges a bank of batteries. The batteries can drive the electric prop motor independently or in concert with the engine/alternator. The batteries become the second ?engine.? The biggest obstacle he?s had is not the weight, it?s keeping the electrical stuff cool.

Just a thought.
 
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