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  #1  
Old 04-12-2021, 01:33 PM
ty1295 ty1295 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Jeffersonville, IN
Posts: 493
Default A&P and Builder Dispointment

I dove head first into the experimental world a few years ago, and have been almost full time building and repairing them in that time. I have am a Manufacturing Engineer by trade with a lot of experience in machining.

Having now finished my own RV9A, and been helping other RV owners with their airplanes in the last 2 years I am amazed at what I am seeing and rather ashamed of what I am seeing.

For example.
  • Speaker wire for the mag wiring.
  • Missing Landing Gear Mount bolts on both sides
  • No control stops on any axis (unless you call the panel a stop)
  • Excessive 90 deg fittings on fuel lines, sometimes 2 components mounted on different surfaces connected via rigid 90's.
  • "Lower spark plugs stripped out, unable to perform compression test." Followed by A&P signing airplane off as airworthy.
  • AP servo's that can overcenter and lock up controls.
  • Lack of large washers on rod ends.


The list goes on. Of course we are fixing these issues, but for the owners they all thought they owned a safe airplane. I am sure others have more stories.

How do we help fix this? I really think RV's could have a safety record as good or better than certified, if these type issues along with pilot training was improved.
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RV9A First Flight 9/30/19
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  #2  
Old 04-12-2021, 01:42 PM
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Raymo Raymo is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Richmond Hill, GA (KLHW)
Posts: 2,340
Default

I see my fair share of poor workmanship, as well, but wouldn't say the RV world is worse than the type certified.

That said, one RV-8 I did a CI on last year had 3 out of 4 jam nuts on the elevator all the way loose - but get this - with torque stripe paint on them spanning the gap between the nut and base where it should have been seated.

An RV-7 had so much counter weight installed on the elevator it was bending at the point where the counter weight extension met the elevator. Probably took a pound of lead off each side to get it balanced (flying since 2011).
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RV-7A - Slider - N495KL - First flt 27 Jan 17
O-360-A4M w/ AFP FM-150 FI, Dual PMags, Vetterman Trombone Exh, SkyTech starter, BandC Alt (PP failed after 226 hrs)
Catto 3 blade NLE, FlightLines Interior, James cowl, plenum & intake, Anti-Splat -14 seat mod and nose gear support
All lines by TSFlightLines (aka Hoser)
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  #3  
Old 04-12-2021, 01:52 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,654
Default See...

See... torque seal only tells you one thing...that is was applied...
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  #4  
Old 04-12-2021, 02:14 PM
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jcarne jcarne is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Worland, Wyoming
Posts: 1,906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymo View Post
An RV-7 had so much counter weight installed on the elevator it was bending at the point where the counter weight extension met the elevator. Probably took a pound of lead off each side to get it balanced (flying since 2011).
I'm assuming someone added a very large extra chunk of lead? I don't see how this can be done unless one goes out and buys a piece of lead to add more. Confused why someone would do this?
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  #5  
Old 04-12-2021, 02:21 PM
ty1295 ty1295 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Jeffersonville, IN
Posts: 493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymo View Post
I see my fair share of poor workmanship, as well, but wouldn't say the RV world is worse than the type certified.

I agree 110%. In fact I am starting to think some A&P's are worse mechanics than people who have never built an airplane.
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  #6  
Old 04-12-2021, 02:30 PM
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Laird Laird is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarne View Post
I'm assuming someone added a very large extra chunk of lead? I don't see how this can be done unless one goes out and buys a piece of lead to add more. Confused why someone would do this?
In the”old” days we poured our own lead. At least I did in 1995.
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  #7  
Old 04-12-2021, 02:44 PM
Ralph Inkster Ralph Inkster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ty1295 View Post

How do we help fix this? I really think RV's could have a safety record as good or better than certified, if these type issues along with pilot training was improved.
- Be a good Mentor - help where you can, point out questionable items as you run into them, the owner will be grateful every time.

- support organizations like EAA (& others) that have multiple programs devoted to this, the goal being a better & safer homebuilt population.

- support VAF!!!
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built a few RVs, rebuilt a few more, hot rodded more, & maintained/updated a big bunch more
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  #8  
Old 04-12-2021, 03:05 PM
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Roadjunkie1 Roadjunkie1 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 163
Default The Things You See......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird View Post
In the”old” days we poured our own lead. At least I did in 1995.
What? There was another way? Us builders that had the "pile of formed aluminum" kits had to do a lot of things on our own. I had a large bar of tintype from a linotype machine (you may have to Google that to see what THAT is) that I have used for multiple things, including jewelry. It is my poured counterweights!

When I was building (and still, to this day) I would scour around every RV I could find, looking for ideas and how others put their airplanes together. OSH was a gold mine of information: hundreds of photographs. There were times when I would stumble on a build and nearly jump back from what I was seeing!! And they FLEW in!

That said, most people seem to realize this aircraft will have your butt going 200 mph and a long way from Ma Earth and it needs to be done RIGHT....! Still.....
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  #9  
Old 04-12-2021, 03:07 PM
Roadjunkie1's Avatar
Roadjunkie1 Roadjunkie1 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 163
Default Whaaaaaaaaaaa...??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymo View Post
That said, one RV-8 I did a CI on last year had 3 out of 4 jam nuts on the elevator all the way loose - but get this - with torque stripe paint on them spanning the gap between the nut and base where it should have been seated.
OK: it isn't funny but it IS! THAT cracked me UP...........
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RV-4 2860
1946 C-90-8 J-3 Cub
The adventure begins when things stop going as planned - Glen Heggstad
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  #10  
Old 04-12-2021, 03:07 PM
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jcarne jcarne is offline
 
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Location: Worland, Wyoming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laird View Post
In the”old” days we poured our own lead. At least I did in 1995.
Oh interesting, I didn't know this was a thing. But was it ever done that way on a -7 kit? I have never heard of it on a -7.
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