Van's Air Force
Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.
RV-10 down in Seale, Alabama
- Thread starter TSwezey
- Start date
Phil
Well Known Member
Bad News.
The plane has been found. Two fatalities.
My prayers go out to them and their families.
http://wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8130777
http://www.wztv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.tn/35d58e13-www.fox17.com.shtml
The plane has been found. Two fatalities.
My prayers go out to them and their families.
http://wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=8130777
http://www.wztv.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.tn/35d58e13-www.fox17.com.shtml
Last edited:
Phil
Well Known Member
PaigeHoffart
Well Known Member
At least two killed in small plane crash in east Alabama
April 07, 2008 21:14 EDT
SEALE, Ala. (AP) -- Officials say at least two people were killed in a small plane crash in east Alabama.
The Russell County Sheriff's department told WTVM-TV of Columbus, Ga., that a plane that dropped off radar Monday afternoon was found off Highway 431 near Phenix City, Ala.
The plane is a single engine 2006 RV-10 kit plane registered to RVN 210 HM-10 Inc. in Hermitage, Tenn.
Montgomery's WSFA-TV reported that the plane was flying from Lebanon, Tenn. to Colorado. The Civil Air Patrol was called around 2 p.m. after the plane reportedly tried to divert to Columbus, Ga., and then tried to divert to Auburn-Opelika.
Its last known radar point was near Seale in Russell County when radar and radio contact dropped off around 12:30 p.m.
KCSG 071651Z 11009KT 8SM OVC010 18/14 A3005 RMK AO2 SLP173 T01780139
KCSG 071611Z 08010KT 8SM OVC010 17/14 A3006 RMK AO2
KCSG 072334Z 080024 10006KT P6SM OVC020
FM0300 08006KT P6SM OVC015
FM0600 08007KT 5SM BR OVC011
FM0800 09007KT 5SM BR OVC007
FM1000 10010KT 3SM -DZ BR OVC005
FM1600 07010KT 6SM HZ OVC015
FM1800 08010KT P6SM BKN025
April 07, 2008 21:14 EDT
SEALE, Ala. (AP) -- Officials say at least two people were killed in a small plane crash in east Alabama.
The Russell County Sheriff's department told WTVM-TV of Columbus, Ga., that a plane that dropped off radar Monday afternoon was found off Highway 431 near Phenix City, Ala.
The plane is a single engine 2006 RV-10 kit plane registered to RVN 210 HM-10 Inc. in Hermitage, Tenn.
Montgomery's WSFA-TV reported that the plane was flying from Lebanon, Tenn. to Colorado. The Civil Air Patrol was called around 2 p.m. after the plane reportedly tried to divert to Columbus, Ga., and then tried to divert to Auburn-Opelika.
Its last known radar point was near Seale in Russell County when radar and radio contact dropped off around 12:30 p.m.
KCSG 071651Z 11009KT 8SM OVC010 18/14 A3005 RMK AO2 SLP173 T01780139
KCSG 071611Z 08010KT 8SM OVC010 17/14 A3006 RMK AO2
KCSG 072334Z 080024 10006KT P6SM OVC020
FM0300 08006KT P6SM OVC015
FM0600 08007KT 5SM BR OVC011
FM0800 09007KT 5SM BR OVC007
FM1000 10010KT 3SM -DZ BR OVC005
FM1600 07010KT 6SM HZ OVC015
FM1800 08010KT P6SM BKN025
flyboycpa
Member
Sad Day in Lebanon
Yes,
It is true that N210HM went down early today with Hamilton Cartwright and Bob "the Cardinal guy" Lloyd onboard while enroute to Sun-N-Fun. I was at the Lebanon airport when the FAA called. He said that the aircraft had gone off radar while being vectored for an instrument approach into Eufala, AL (KEUF), but then tried to divert to Columbus, GA (KCSG). These men will truly be missed at our airport. Ham(ilton) was at the airport nearly every day working on and/or flying his -10. He was a repeat offender having previously built a slow-build RV-8A. I will not make any assumptions or accusations other than what was provided by the FAA investigator I spoke with. May God be with them for their ultimate flight home.
Sam Swift, M54
Yes,
It is true that N210HM went down early today with Hamilton Cartwright and Bob "the Cardinal guy" Lloyd onboard while enroute to Sun-N-Fun. I was at the Lebanon airport when the FAA called. He said that the aircraft had gone off radar while being vectored for an instrument approach into Eufala, AL (KEUF), but then tried to divert to Columbus, GA (KCSG). These men will truly be missed at our airport. Ham(ilton) was at the airport nearly every day working on and/or flying his -10. He was a repeat offender having previously built a slow-build RV-8A. I will not make any assumptions or accusations other than what was provided by the FAA investigator I spoke with. May God be with them for their ultimate flight home.
Sam Swift, M54
Last edited:
RV Down In Alabama
Here is all I know about this....
SEALE, Ala. (WSFA) - Russell County investigators along with the Federal Aviation Administration spent Tuesday sifting through the wreckage of a small plane that crashed Monday afternoon killing both people on board.
Now, the identities of the victims are being released. The pilot was positively indentified as Hamilton Cartwright of Old Hickory, Tennessee and the passenger as Robert Lloyd of Franklin, Tennessee.
The plane was a single engine 2006 RV-10 kit plane. It's a type of plane that can be built from home.
Emergency crews, including at least four ground teams and one aircraft from the Alabama Civil Air Patrol scoured Russell County searching for the plane.
The Civil Air Patrol was called in around 2pm Monday after the plane reportedly attempted to divert to Columbus, Georgia and then made another attemp to divert to Auburn-Opelika. Radio and radar contact stopped around 12:30pm.
Investigators are looking at the plane's final communications with air traffic controllers to try and determine what happened.
The National Transportation Safety Board says an investigation like this can take up to a year to complete.
Here is all I know about this....
SEALE, Ala. (WSFA) - Russell County investigators along with the Federal Aviation Administration spent Tuesday sifting through the wreckage of a small plane that crashed Monday afternoon killing both people on board.
Now, the identities of the victims are being released. The pilot was positively indentified as Hamilton Cartwright of Old Hickory, Tennessee and the passenger as Robert Lloyd of Franklin, Tennessee.
The plane was a single engine 2006 RV-10 kit plane. It's a type of plane that can be built from home.
Emergency crews, including at least four ground teams and one aircraft from the Alabama Civil Air Patrol scoured Russell County searching for the plane.
The Civil Air Patrol was called in around 2pm Monday after the plane reportedly attempted to divert to Columbus, Georgia and then made another attemp to divert to Auburn-Opelika. Radio and radar contact stopped around 12:30pm.
Investigators are looking at the plane's final communications with air traffic controllers to try and determine what happened.
The National Transportation Safety Board says an investigation like this can take up to a year to complete.
rv7boy
Forum Peruser
NTSB Delay???
Does anyone have any ideas as to why the NTSB is taking so long to post the Preliminary report of the RV-10 accident on their web site? Today marks the 11th day since the accident (Monday, April 7) and they usually post their Preliminary report within 3 or 4 days. I don't remember one taking this long to get the Preliminary report posted...
Don
Does anyone have any ideas as to why the NTSB is taking so long to post the Preliminary report of the RV-10 accident on their web site? Today marks the 11th day since the accident (Monday, April 7) and they usually post their Preliminary report within 3 or 4 days. I don't remember one taking this long to get the Preliminary report posted...
Don
Last edited:
No idea what their excuse is. Have seen a few where it took a couple of weeks though.Does anyone have any ideas as to why the NTSB is taking so long to post the Preliminary report of the RV-10 accident on their web site? Today marks the 11th day since the accident (Monday, April 7) and they usually post their Preliminary report within 3 or 4 days. I don't remember one taking this long to get the Preliminary report posted...
Don
On a related but different point, two of a handful of near-miss events I've had in my flying career occurred on SNF trips in this area. Both changed my entire flying outlook. One was a low fuel event and the other was getting caught in decending visibility and not being gyro equipped. Something about this area...
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
From my perspective of planning/flying S-N-F trips from north Alabama for 15 years, it seems south Alabama is where a lot of fronts go to die that time of year. They come ripping out of the NW, run out of steam and settle in that area. Can't tell you how many times our plans have been altered by low weather between Auburn and the Florida panhandle (and a few times when they should have been altered....).
keithschult
Well Known Member
Weather in the South
I certainly agree with these comments.
I've seen times leaving Tuscaloosa headed towards Florida or returning from Florida headed to Texas where the visibility was poor. It would be reported as 4 or 5 miles visibility but the haze was dispersing the light in such ways that I couldn't see laterally, only straight down. I had to return to departure and wait it out.
Once I almost ran into a thunderstorm near Jackson, MS because I couldn't see. I had called Flight Service to be safe and so I was able to divert.
I certainly agree with these comments.
I've seen times leaving Tuscaloosa headed towards Florida or returning from Florida headed to Texas where the visibility was poor. It would be reported as 4 or 5 miles visibility but the haze was dispersing the light in such ways that I couldn't see laterally, only straight down. I had to return to departure and wait it out.
Once I almost ran into a thunderstorm near Jackson, MS because I couldn't see. I had called Flight Service to be safe and so I was able to divert.
roadrunner20
Well Known Member
I can't seem to remember any time where I've not seen a wide patch of weather that covers the Interstate 10 from S. Alabama to JAX.
I always make sure I'm fueled up to cross that stretch while flying on top.
I believe it has lots to do with the convergence of the north east gulf, the land mass & prevailing winds.
I always make sure I'm fueled up to cross that stretch while flying on top.
I believe it has lots to do with the convergence of the north east gulf, the land mass & prevailing winds.
rv7boy
Forum Peruser
NTSB Prelim Report
Looks like the Preliminary report recently came out. NTSB LINK
From April 7 to April 24 is 17 days. Not going to speculate, but I am interested in what the NTSB comes up with. My heartfelt sympathies to anyone who knew the two pilots.
Don
Does anyone have any ideas as to why the NTSB is taking so long to post the Preliminary report of the RV-10 accident on their web site? Today marks the 11th day since the accident (Monday, April 7) and they usually post their Preliminary report within 3 or 4 days. I don't remember one taking this long to get the Preliminary report posted...
Don
Looks like the Preliminary report recently came out. NTSB LINK
From April 7 to April 24 is 17 days. Not going to speculate, but I am interested in what the NTSB comes up with. My heartfelt sympathies to anyone who knew the two pilots.
Don
gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
They where having problems before the approach
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080422X00528&key=1
IFR flight plan and conditions prevailed.
It appears CARTWRIGHT JR, MARION HAMILTON (builder/pilot/owner) was a private pilot, with out an instrument rating. The other pilot in the plane, Robert Lloyd was a private instrument rated pilot. The other builder of the RV-10 is listed as COTTRELL, (M)ICHAEL STEVEN.
The report is very upsetting: "The airplane deviated 400 feet above its assigned altitude and 1,200 feet below on multiple occasions throughout the last 14 minutes of the flight. The controller twice relayed low altitude alert warnings to the pilot. The pilot did not declare an emergency to the controller at any point during their conversations."
[400 feet is significant deviation en-route; of course on approach 40 feet could get you in trouble. "1,200 feet multiple below on multiple occasions" means they where having some problem.]
Initially cleared to VOR RWY 18 approach to (EUF) Eufaula: "The pilot then explained to the controller "We may, I think we are not going to fly the whole approach here, I think we'll let you know when," and further stated "We're going to have to come up with an alternate plan here."
[It sounds like an unwillingness to fly an IFR approach, at least not fly a VOR approach.]
The ask for a diversion about 42 miles NNW"The pilot then requested, and was provided, vectors to Auburn-Opelika Airport (AUO), Auburn, Alabama. While en-route to Auburn, he amended his request and instead asked for vectors to Columbus Metropolitan Airport (CSG), Columbus, Georgia, stating that he required an airport with an ILS approach."
[Than they change plans to an airport 34 miles NNE of Auburn to get an ILS approach which seems reasonable. However AUO list an ILS as well. From EUF CSG is about 7 miles closer than AUO. So may be they wanted the closer airport.]
Something went really wrong: "The controller subsequently provided vectors to Columbus (CSG) [ILS 6 I assume], and about 13 miles southwest of the airport, at an altitude of 2900 feet, the radar target began a sharp descending right turn. The target descended to 1,200 feet halfway through the turn, and then began a steep right climb. The last recorded radar target occurred at 1226 and was observed at an altitude of 2,600 feet. The wreckage was located approximately 400 feet east of the location where the final radar target was observed, at an elevation of 270 feet."
"At 1251, the weather reported at Columbus, included overcast clouds at 1400 feet, and 7 statute miles of visibility in mist. The winds were 080 degrees at 8 knots. The temperature was 18 degrees Celsius and the dew point was 14 degrees Celsius. Rain began 35 minutes past the hour and ended 44 minutes past the hour."
[I have no idea what happened and will not speculate.]
Some personal thoughts with my CFI cap on, RV's are very fast slick planes. They can develop huge speed very quickly when pointed towards the ground. VFR or IFR rated get a safety pilot or CFI and practice unusual attitudes under the hood, often. While you are at it, throw in some stalls including accelerated stall recoveries under the hood. That sluggish slow Cessna has some advantage in IMC. On one hand low drag with fast accurate control response of a RV is great. On the other hand it can be an adversary in IMC if you are not current and on top of the plane.
I flew my old RV-4 IFR, no autopilot. I have to admit, I never was totally comfortable in the RV-4 when solid IMC. I realized if I screwed up and got distracted I could end up near Vne and inverted pretty quick in clouds. That never happened but did concentrate when it was for real; I was never real totally relaxed when in solid IMC with the RV-4. An autopilot when single pilot IMC in a RV of course is a great help and the common wisdom, but it's no substitute for PIC skill and currency.
Early Mooney's had an issue of being a handful, single pilot IFR, so some models came standard with a full time wing leveler. You had a disconnect button on the yoke to press to turn the stability helper (wing leveler) off to turn the plane, but if you let go the stability augmentation button (autopilot), it leveled the wings.
If you get into IMC, even if you are IFR but not current or practice in airplane type, its an emergency or can be. Just because you can fly IMC in a C-172 does not make you IFR qualified in a RV. Just admit it to ATC and declare an emergency. Just do it. Don't worry about getting in trouble. Say you are having a hard time flying the plane and need vectors to VFR weather. Be safe. RIP and condolences to the family.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080422X00528&key=1
IFR flight plan and conditions prevailed.
It appears CARTWRIGHT JR, MARION HAMILTON (builder/pilot/owner) was a private pilot, with out an instrument rating. The other pilot in the plane, Robert Lloyd was a private instrument rated pilot. The other builder of the RV-10 is listed as COTTRELL, (M)ICHAEL STEVEN.
The report is very upsetting: "The airplane deviated 400 feet above its assigned altitude and 1,200 feet below on multiple occasions throughout the last 14 minutes of the flight. The controller twice relayed low altitude alert warnings to the pilot. The pilot did not declare an emergency to the controller at any point during their conversations."
[400 feet is significant deviation en-route; of course on approach 40 feet could get you in trouble. "1,200 feet multiple below on multiple occasions" means they where having some problem.]
Initially cleared to VOR RWY 18 approach to (EUF) Eufaula: "The pilot then explained to the controller "We may, I think we are not going to fly the whole approach here, I think we'll let you know when," and further stated "We're going to have to come up with an alternate plan here."
[It sounds like an unwillingness to fly an IFR approach, at least not fly a VOR approach.]
The ask for a diversion about 42 miles NNW"The pilot then requested, and was provided, vectors to Auburn-Opelika Airport (AUO), Auburn, Alabama. While en-route to Auburn, he amended his request and instead asked for vectors to Columbus Metropolitan Airport (CSG), Columbus, Georgia, stating that he required an airport with an ILS approach."
[Than they change plans to an airport 34 miles NNE of Auburn to get an ILS approach which seems reasonable. However AUO list an ILS as well. From EUF CSG is about 7 miles closer than AUO. So may be they wanted the closer airport.]
Something went really wrong: "The controller subsequently provided vectors to Columbus (CSG) [ILS 6 I assume], and about 13 miles southwest of the airport, at an altitude of 2900 feet, the radar target began a sharp descending right turn. The target descended to 1,200 feet halfway through the turn, and then began a steep right climb. The last recorded radar target occurred at 1226 and was observed at an altitude of 2,600 feet. The wreckage was located approximately 400 feet east of the location where the final radar target was observed, at an elevation of 270 feet."
"At 1251, the weather reported at Columbus, included overcast clouds at 1400 feet, and 7 statute miles of visibility in mist. The winds were 080 degrees at 8 knots. The temperature was 18 degrees Celsius and the dew point was 14 degrees Celsius. Rain began 35 minutes past the hour and ended 44 minutes past the hour."
[I have no idea what happened and will not speculate.]
Some personal thoughts with my CFI cap on, RV's are very fast slick planes. They can develop huge speed very quickly when pointed towards the ground. VFR or IFR rated get a safety pilot or CFI and practice unusual attitudes under the hood, often. While you are at it, throw in some stalls including accelerated stall recoveries under the hood. That sluggish slow Cessna has some advantage in IMC. On one hand low drag with fast accurate control response of a RV is great. On the other hand it can be an adversary in IMC if you are not current and on top of the plane.
I flew my old RV-4 IFR, no autopilot. I have to admit, I never was totally comfortable in the RV-4 when solid IMC. I realized if I screwed up and got distracted I could end up near Vne and inverted pretty quick in clouds. That never happened but did concentrate when it was for real; I was never real totally relaxed when in solid IMC with the RV-4. An autopilot when single pilot IMC in a RV of course is a great help and the common wisdom, but it's no substitute for PIC skill and currency.
Early Mooney's had an issue of being a handful, single pilot IFR, so some models came standard with a full time wing leveler. You had a disconnect button on the yoke to press to turn the stability helper (wing leveler) off to turn the plane, but if you let go the stability augmentation button (autopilot), it leveled the wings.
If you get into IMC, even if you are IFR but not current or practice in airplane type, its an emergency or can be. Just because you can fly IMC in a C-172 does not make you IFR qualified in a RV. Just admit it to ATC and declare an emergency. Just do it. Don't worry about getting in trouble. Say you are having a hard time flying the plane and need vectors to VFR weather. Be safe. RIP and condolences to the family.
Last edited:
doctornigel
Active Member
Scares me when I read an NTSB report like this, alot of head scratching and I'm not sure anyone will know what happened. I am an IFR rated PP but am relatively low time, however, I do ALOT of IMC flying, but mostly benign weather.
For safety, three things come to mind, autopilot, ATC and throttle. In an emergency, unless there is a compelling reason not to (turbulence, critical equipment failure) level the wings and PUT ON THE AUTOPILOT!
Next call ATC and declare an EMERGENCY! You will be amazed the resources that are at your call when you use those words. They will give you vectors, altitude, frequencies. It will cut your work-load in half and isn't that what you need in an emergency? If you have to lie, tell ATC that you dropped your approach plates and they are somewhere on the floor and you aren't going to look for them. They will get you to the airport and talk you through the approach to get down. You can then concentrate on flying the plane. Whatever was going on in that plane, both pilots knew they were in trouble, DECLARE AN EMERGENCY.
The next thing is throttle, SLOW DOWN! If you are lost, disoriented, in turbulence, electronics problems etc. you don't need to be going at cruise speed. Va or slower is fine, even put a notch of flaps if you can (obviously not if engine problems or in icing). This will give you more time to react and will stabilize the plane. Obviously there are some emergencies where all three won't apply but DO SOMETHING.
For safety, three things come to mind, autopilot, ATC and throttle. In an emergency, unless there is a compelling reason not to (turbulence, critical equipment failure) level the wings and PUT ON THE AUTOPILOT!
Next call ATC and declare an EMERGENCY! You will be amazed the resources that are at your call when you use those words. They will give you vectors, altitude, frequencies. It will cut your work-load in half and isn't that what you need in an emergency? If you have to lie, tell ATC that you dropped your approach plates and they are somewhere on the floor and you aren't going to look for them. They will get you to the airport and talk you through the approach to get down. You can then concentrate on flying the plane. Whatever was going on in that plane, both pilots knew they were in trouble, DECLARE AN EMERGENCY.
The next thing is throttle, SLOW DOWN! If you are lost, disoriented, in turbulence, electronics problems etc. you don't need to be going at cruise speed. Va or slower is fine, even put a notch of flaps if you can (obviously not if engine problems or in icing). This will give you more time to react and will stabilize the plane. Obviously there are some emergencies where all three won't apply but DO SOMETHING.
gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
FAA really does want to help
I know its hard to believe but the FAA does not want to violate you. Two if you confess and "self disclose" you tend to get some benefit of the doubt. However if you follow a mistake like unintentional flight into IMC with cover-up and less than honesty the FAA will be punitive. And as Ross said who cares if they suspend you ticket if the alternative is an accident.
