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Cylinder condition

kentlik

Well Known Member
I pulled a jug off my 360 angle valve and just for kicks thought I would get, if possible from photos, input on the condition and repairability of the cylinder.

This is super subjective I understand that but is anything glaringly discernable from these shots?

Thanks!

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[/url]jug off by Kent Luttrell, on Flickr[/IMG]

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[/url]cylinder 2 by Kent Luttrell, on Flickr[/IMG]

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[/url]cylinder2a by Kent Luttrell, on Flickr[/IMG]
 
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Cylinder

One thing is noticable...there seems to be no crosshatch still visible in the swept surface. You can see the crosshatch in the area below the piston travel. I would guess oil consumption might not be so great.
Ed
 
Since you have the cylinder off be sure to look at the cam lobes and better yet stick a borescope in there and take pictures. Since it's impossible to check for pitting / spalling with cylinders on.
 
The rings are wiped out. A serviceable ring will have a bit of varnish all the way around, covering about 1/3 give or take of the ring top to bottom. The shiny part is the portion of the face in contact, the varnished half is the future wear surface. If it is shiny top to bottom; across the entire face, they are shot and will use oil and have lowering compression.
 
Valves looking good. Large area of ancient corrosion, question is how deep it is.
Slightly puzzled by the blue spot visible on the bottom of the pictures... overheat of some kind?
 
Valves looking good. Large area of ancient corrosion, question is how deep it is.
Slightly puzzled by the blue spot visible on the bottom of the pictures... overheat of some kind?

I think the blue spot is a reflection of the spark plug hole….
 
Howdy Everyone. In the first picture; it appears that there may have been some sort of gasket material or sealant between the cylinder base flange and engine block pad. (where the studs are located for cylinder mounting) That is a no-no; only an O ring should be used for the seal.
 
I think the blue spot is a reflection of the spark plug hole…

Thanks Paul, most probably is. Was just thinking too much :eek:
And it also shows how difficult a photo only analysis is... no depth perception, glare, etc.
 
Thank you all so much for the insight on this!

This motor was purchased used and I have no information on its performance prior to me buying it. So oil consumption may well have been an issue.

I will get my borescope out and take a peek at the cam. I can post a picture if I can figure out the process of doing that.

Wiped out rings, check!

It is a total tear-down as it has sat for several years so I will get a look at the whole enchilada post-Christmas. As long as my cylinder wrench comes in from 'Spruce...

Valves look good, that is good news. Will likely rebuild the cylinders as they will be out and off anyway.

The blue spot does appear to be a reflection as Paul noted.

This cylinder was loose on the case so I am guessing it was previously removed for inspection.
Thanks for the feedback on this, I love this forum and so many o the members are so very helpful in my process of learning and building!
 
get my borescope out and take a peek at the cam

No need for a borescope if you’ll also remove a rear cylinder.
At the moment a mirror and flashlight are enough to inspect the lobes and tappets for the forward 2 cylinders. Pitting or galling are the enemies here.
Good luck 👍🏻
 
Kent, don't worry about it. Do a complete teardown. Send all the major components off to the inspection/rebuild shops, and order everything on Lycoming's replace-at-overhaul list.

New cylinders are worth the money. I would not install rebuilds if I had a choice. Cylinder head cracks and joint failures are mostly a function of stress cycles. Rebuilds don't turn back that particular clock.

Yes, I'm suggesting money saved at this point is false economy. Pulling the engine at some future point is, at a minimum, a huge PITA, and if you sell the airplane before then, you'll get less money. It's out and on the bench, so just build it to new spec and be happy long term.
 
Merry Christmas Kent ,
Nice old narrow deck engine you’ve found there ,, Along with everyone else’s comments if you are going to send those cases out to have them line bored or any mods done to them , IE the oil pump AD etc , look at modifying them to a dyna 1 mount, I don’t think I would leave them a conical as that’s what they look like in the photo !
 
1. This is an early wide deck IO-360, not a narrow deck.
2. Rings can wear to have full contact and be fine. You're gonna replace them anyways.
3. These are low time cylinders since last overhaul with little to no deposits.
4. Cylinders are lightly pitted and are glazed from what I can tell from the pics.
5. Overhauled cylinders are fine, especially angle valve, due to cost. New cylinders are unobtanium right now so your choices are limited.
 
Bob quick question since we are on the subject. Why the color of my engine innards are different from Kent's?

engine_innards_color_-_1.jpeg
 
Kent, don't worry about it. Do a complete teardown. Send all the major components off to the inspection/rebuild shops, and order everything on Lycoming's replace-at-overhaul list.

New cylinders are worth the money. I would not install rebuilds if I had a choice. Cylinder head cracks and joint failures are mostly a function of stress cycles. Rebuilds don't turn back that particular clock.

Yes, I'm suggesting money saved at this point is false economy. Pulling the engine at some future point is, at a minimum, a huge PITA, and if you sell the airplane before then, you'll get less money. It's out and on the bench, so just build it to new spec and be happy long term.

OK, that is sound advice, Dan.

This is what I was intending until I saw the lead times on parts...whaa whaa whaa

The case has to go off to Divco to get the case recut to Dynafocal 1 specs as it is a Dynafocal 2 cut currently. I purchased this motor from a gentleman in Canada, it was advertised as an IO-360, turned out to be an HIO-360. Received a reduced price and a few bonus items as a result of that misunderstanding. I believe he really thought it was an IO.

The crank is the one part I am hoping to save and will get a look at it next week, I hope. I am jammed for time as I go out of town for work for a few months end of January.

Will throw up some additional photos as I continue disassembly.
This motor was a low timer but sat for too long...

Thanks again!
 
Thanks Paul, most probably is. Was just thinking too much :eek:
And it also shows how difficult a photo only analysis is... no depth perception, glare, etc.
Do you wet torque all of your stud threads or just the through bolts on reassembly as a wet torque?
 
Do you wet torque all of your stud threads or just the through bolts on reassembly as a wet torque?

That is outside my scope of work. The case will go to Divco for recutting the mount and inspection, honing. The balance of parts to Aircraft Specialties and hope to get the parts back within a year...?

I will have it reassembled by a professional. But getting it apart without damage is in my wheelhouse...haha
 
So the rod bearings are a mess, it's a good thing I took this motor all the way down.

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[/url]20220112_134933 by Kent Luttrell, on Flickr[/IMG]

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[/url]20220112_134936 by Kent Luttrell, on Flickr[/IMG]



I thought I had all the rods photo'd but clearly not. Only one was clean and unscarred.

Crank didn't look near as bad as the bearings but it will need some attention for sure.
 
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That is outside my scope of work. The case will go to Divco for recutting the mount and inspection, honing. The balance of parts to Aircraft Specialties and hope to get the parts back within a year...?

I will have it reassembled by a professional. But getting it apart without damage is in my wheelhouse...haha

I can't help but wonder if Barrett will do the rebuild... after all, they share the same driveway with Aircraft Specialties. Hoping that's the case, no pun intended.
 
So the crank bearings are a mess, it's a good thing I took this motor all the way down.

I thought I had all the rods photo'd but clearly not. Only one was clean and unscarred.

Crank didn't look near as bad as the bearings but it will need some attention for sure.

Only rod bearings shown not mains. . ..
It looks like a main bearing spit debris (what do they look like?) into the oil stream and to the rod bearings. The main concern for the crank is wear.

Agree you are fortunate (very) to have taken this all the way down. The harsh scaring would have lead to catastrophic failure and likely throwing a rod. Now the oil cooler has to be replaced/rebuilt. :( It started somewhere, better follow it to a source and understand it.

Maybe it's just me, but I like reading the story an engine presents when dissembled. Like reading a book with lots of threads and events. Oil, bearings, piston/ring/barrel wear, colors, gear contact and more. All the weaknesses and history revealed.
 
Good it got taken apart

I am no mechanic but the sludge and condition of piston and rods tells me it may not have had the appropriate number of oil changes or far long an interval between flights.

Good thing you took it apart.

I bought a used engine as well and although i had to change the sump on the Lycoming 0-320-B2C to fit in my RV 7 I had the mechanic do a tear down to see how it looked. Best 5 K I ever spent, the engine came back and although not flying yet i have had several starts and run ups showing no sludge or metal in the oil.

Good Luck
Dave
 
Only rod bearings shown not mains. . ..
It looks like a main bearing spit debris (what do they look like?) into the oil stream and to the rod bearings. The main concern for the crank is wear.

Agree you are fortunate (very) to have taken this all the way down. The harsh scaring would have lead to catastrophic failure and likely throwing a rod. Now the oil cooler has to be replaced/rebuilt. :( It started somewhere, better follow it to a source and understand it.

Maybe it's just me, but I like reading the story an engine presents when dissembled. Like reading a book with lots of threads and events. Oil, bearings, piston/ring/barrel wear, colors, gear contact and more. All the weaknesses and history revealed.

Corrected that!
 
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