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Budget Engine Build (Roughly 25k)

cgarts1

Well Known Member
For those that want to build a -14 but can't absorb the cost of a new 70k engine I figured I'd start this thread and make a few videos. My -14 has been flying since Sep. 2021 with a 180HP parallel valve engine with favorable results.

Here's a video of a flight with that engine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUE0vJA6vv0&t=2s

After 170 hrs of flight with that engine I decided that I wanted to upgrade the engine to the 200hp model. I purchased an IO360C1E6 engine on ebay for $7500 and drove out to California and picked it up. This was certainly a gamble, and as it turns out the crankcase was red tagged. However the crankshaft and cylinders were serviceable. So I lucked out. Starting with a core engine has it's benefits but if I had to do it again I might just buy all of the components individually. Divco will certainly have a crankcase and Aircraft Specialties will probably have a crankshaft. A few phone calls and you'll know.

https://www.divcoinc.com/
https://www.aircraftspecialties.aero/

Here's a link to the first video of the new engine build.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSfsE4hkg7E

I won't be documenting every step on how to put the engine together, but there will be few more videos on the build and I'll do a flight a video as well.

The only change you really need to do using the C1E6 is the sump and intake tubes. Fortunately the guys that are doing the cowl flap mod are changing the sump and tubes and you can typically buy these parts for a reasonable price. The part numbers for these are the same as the IO360A1A as well.
Sump: 74384 (I believe any 360 200HP front induction sump will work)
Tubes: 78741, 78742, 78743, 78744

Note that the C1E6 is a great choice because it has the front left governor pad which is a must if you want a constant speed prop. I'm sure there are other variants of the IO360 that also have this and will probably work. One thing I wonder about is if you are building the tail dragger whether the accessory case driven prop governor will work because it appears that the only thing in the way is the shock absorber for the A model nose gear. If so than many of the 200HP 360's become a viable option for the dragger.

When I have some more time I'll add the costs to this post.

As far as performance data one can simply look at the two -14 prototypes. The -14A has the 390 and the -14 has the 360. The difference is negligible.

The cylinders are back from Gibson Aviation today and they look beautiful. Looking forward to getting home this afternoon to gap the rings and put the new pistons in.

https://gibsonaviationok.com/
https://combustech.com/collections/lycoming-angle-valve-pistons/products/asc10207

With some luck and some good weather I should be breaking it in on Sunday.

Put the cylinders on this morning. Attached pics.

Second video added: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROtzloEtMuE
 

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Chuck
Thank you for documenting this engine change. I'm currently building my RV14A and am very interested in going with an IO-360 C1E6 engine option as I will be going with a CS prop. I have watched your first video and have already learned a ton about what modifications need to be made. I also appreciate you mentioning the prices and sources of the components you needed to acquire. I'm assuming you are still going with the FP prop for now? I have subscribed and will be a keen follower of you on Youtube.
 
Me too !

I’m also fallowing along ,,, we’ve come a long ways from when you could build one of Vans airplanes for 50 K,,, inflation is taking away all the fun !
 
Thanks guys. I'm happy to see a response to this.

I ran the engine today and it was pretty good. I'll probably fly it tomorrow and get some more videos added next week.

Putting on the Vans baffles/snorkel system yesterday I was once again so impressed with the quality and ease. There is one bolt that doesn't line up on the front left baffle on the crankcase. The casting must be just a bit different than the newer 360/390 cases in that area. But it's really no problem at all. The crankcase is pretty much identical.

Also it's nice to have a zero time engine but buying a running engine and bolting it on is certainly a time saver. This ended up costing me 9 months. And it's a good thing it took that long or I probably would have had to borrow money.

I'm very excited to get back in the air and make some upgrades while logging some flying time.

Cheers
 
I've got about an hour and a half of flight on the engine and all seems well. Temperatures are generally in the low 300's at cruise. Never anywhere near 400 on climb out at 6500 DA and 75F OAT. On the break in flight they were a bit close to 400 but came down to mid 300's right at about 35 minutes at full power.

The flight videos I took unfortunately have an annoying clicking noise attributed to the mags I suspect. I'll upload one one of them to youtube.

My father and I are planning on doing OshKosh so hit me up by pm if you want to take a look.
 
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I am very interested in piecing together an IO-360 for my RV8 build over the next couple of years. I am mechanically inclined and have put together plenty of smaller engines in the past. It seems like the availability of crankshafts is the limiting factor now as most places show backorder with no posted lead time. Would it be better to try and find a cheap complete donor engine to rebuild or start from scratch? What manuals and bulletins does one need to follow and be aware of? Thanks all

Tim
 
I am very interested in piecing together an IO-360 for my RV8 build over the next couple of years. I am mechanically inclined and have put together plenty of smaller engines in the past. It seems like the availability of crankshafts is the limiting factor now as most places show backorder with no posted lead time. Would it be better to try and find a cheap complete donor engine to rebuild or start from scratch? What manuals and bulletins does one need to follow and be aware of? Thanks all

Tim

Tim,
I've built a handful of these engines and it's quite rewarding. That said I think the better route is to buy a running low hour engine that's already proven. If I had to do it again I'd probably go that route. 200HP engines from a Seneca or whatever go 24k. Then throw some money at upgrades like an SDS injection/ignition system if it's in the budget.

But, if it comes between a donor motor or start from ground up:

The last engine I took a chance on for $7500, drove to Cali to pick it up, and drove home not sure if I bought a boat anchor or not. Crank was good, cylinders were rebuild-able, crankcase was bad. So I feel like I got lucky because the crankshaft was good. That's absolutely the concern. In the end I have a yellow tagged zero hour engine for roughly 23k........with used mags and worn Bendix injection that I'm looking at replacing.

I did a 180HP ground up for the same money. The difference being the crank and case were not yellow tagged but all measured as new. Cylinders for the 180HP are like 5k for (4) new ones. I paid more than that just for the rebuild of the angle valve 200HP cylinders. Everything else on this engine was new including ignition and injection.

The experience is invaluable. Just like building an air frame or wiring your own avionics you get to know another facet of your aircraft in a very intimate manner.

So kind of a tricky question to answer.

Manuals, SB's, and all pertinent info is available on the web for Lycoming engines.

I highly recommend this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-26eqLc4pQ

It's outdated a bit and there's a few newer methods, but IMO the best one I've run across.

Lycoming's are pretty generic when it comes to parts but you have to be careful. Ask questions and research if your not sure a part will fit. The parts catalogs are pretty good so it usually won't be an issue. Of course this place is a great resource.

I hope that helps.
 
Also putting a C1E6 into a 14. Mine is a tail dragger though. Going to send my new man cylinders out to lycon for porting, running SDS EFII and will probably go with sky dynamics cold air. Would like to see 215hp out of it. See if we get there. Paid 10k for the motor and I think 16k or so for new cyclenders and all the parts for a rebuild which included a new cam.
 
Is there a guide somewhere as to which engines will "work" when looking at used engines? I can figure out engine mounts, fuel injection/carbs, parallel/angle valve but after that, I get lost in the suffixes and I'd hate to buy something that would not work.
 
Is there a guide somewhere as to which engines will "work" when looking at used engines? I can figure out engine mounts, fuel injection/carbs, parallel/angle valve but after that, I get lost in the suffixes and I'd hate to buy something that would not work.

A few years ago I did a bunch of research on compatible angle valve IO-360's and my conclusion was there were very few versions of that engine produced with the forward mounted governor. Most of them have the rear mounted governor which interferes with the engine mount. I also learned that case cracks are a common issue with higher time IO-360's. So at that point I gave up looking. Not saying it's impossible to find a decent mid-time or overhauled engine for the -14 but be prepared to spend a lot of time searching and accept that you're rolling the dice...and resale value will be significantly less because all the buyers out there will want the 390.
 
A few years ago I did a bunch of research on compatible angle valve IO-360's and my conclusion was there were very few versions of that engine produced with the forward mounted governor. Most of them have the rear mounted governor which interferes with the engine mount. I also learned that case cracks are a common issue with higher time IO-360's. So at that point I gave up looking. Not saying it's impossible to find a decent mid-time or overhauled engine for the -14 but be prepared to spend a lot of time searching and accept that you're rolling the dice...and resale value will be significantly less because all the buyers out there will want the 390.

I just did a search for a 360C1E6 for sale and found one for 28k with less than 600 hrs TSMO. Dodson pretty much always has them in stock in the low 20's. That's for running engines ready to bolt on.

Divco and other places have cases in stock. They are easy to come by.

Another thing that I'm not sure on but I suspect the rear mount governor will work on the tail dragger because i think the nose gear shock is in the way.

That said, this thread is for those of us that are not willing to spend 80k for an engine. Can we please leave the "390's and resale value" thing for other threads, thanks.
 
Also putting a C1E6 into a 14. Mine is a tail dragger though. Going to send my new man cylinders out to lycon for porting, running SDS EFII and will probably go with sky dynamics cold air. Would like to see 215hp out of it. See if we get there. Paid 10k for the motor and I think 16k or so for new cyclenders and all the parts for a rebuild which included a new cam.

Mike,

That sounds awesome. Your airplane will perform as well as the 390 with the same prop. Nice. I really want the SDS ignition and injection.
 
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