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Flap motor retrofit

bob888

Well Known Member
I would like to hear some feedback from anyone who has installed Vans retrofit flap motor kit in the 10.
 
I started it yesterday. Removed the old flap motor, drilled out the old mount, prepped and primed the new parts in the kit. 1.5 hrs or so, so far. Seems pretty well documented.
 
It's my understanding they went to a flat motor with internal position indicator as opposed to an external position indicator and motor. I'm not flying so I'm just making the change now since they're shipping these with the new kits. If I was flying I probably would not make the change.
 
I have the original RV-10 flap motor, and the Show Planes flap positioning system (FPS). Apparently, the FPS doesn't work with the retrofit motor (according to https://store.vansaircraft.com/rv-10-flap-positioning-system-es-flap-pos-swv-10.html).

What are the popular options for a retrofit flap positioning system (-3/0/half/full) compatible with the flap motor retrofit kit from Van's?

Thanks,

Tim

The new flap motor from Vans has a built in position sensor so there is no need for an external one.
 
It's my understanding they went to a flat motor with internal position indicator as opposed to an external position indicator and motor. I'm not flying so I'm just making the change now since they're shipping these with the new kits. If I was flying I probably would not make the change.

Thank you.

Do you guys know if this new sensor works well with the VPX?
 
The new flap motor from Vans has a built in position sensor so there is no need for an external one.

That was not my question.
- The fact that the new flap motor has a built in position *sensor* means we don't need an external flap position *sensor* to drive the flap display on the EFIS. That's nice.
- If we want a flap *controller* to set the flaps at various presets such as -3/0/half/full (that's the job of the FPS) we need something in addition to the flap motor retrofit. Van's says the existing FPS (which I have) won't work with the new motor.
 
The FPS is built into the new motor. No ray Allen or other external FPS needed. The three wires from the old external FPS are on the motor in addition to the power wires. The flap switch controls the position.
 
That was not my question.
- The fact that the new flap motor has a built in position *sensor* means we don't need an external flap position *sensor* to drive the flap display on the EFIS. That's nice.
- If we want a flap *controller* to set the flaps at various presets such as -3/0/half/full (that's the job of the FPS) we need something in addition to the flap motor retrofit. Van's says the existing FPS (which I have) won't work with the new motor.

I got what you are asking now. I don't know of a standalone "controller" as I have a Garmin system that includes that functionality.
 
Pics

Here are a few pics. Remove rivets that hold the old bracket, drill four new holes each side of tunnel, rivet in new bracket in new location, install motor. Of course, a bit of prepping and priming... Took about 3.5 hours on a not yet flying -10 that was already accessible. As previously mentioned, no big reason to change an already flying -10.

20220607_123534.jpg

20220607_123530.jpg

20220607_123528.jpg

20220607_131449.jpg
 
Flap Motor Retrofit Corrections to Vans Instructions

@rvbuilder2002

Flap Motor Retrofit instructions Corrections OP-65: RV-10

1) OP 64-01, Figure 2, an 8th rivet needs to be removed (plans indicates 7 rivets) - the one to the left of the shaded area is the 8th rivet that must be removed. The hole is used for riveting one of the holes on the new bracket.

2) OP 64-04 Figure 1, Two washers - NAS1149F0563P - are needed under the castle nut in order to remove the end play. Without a second washer, the castle nut bottoms out on the AN5-25 bolt before end play is removed.

3) OP 64-05 figure 1, The 6x NAS1149F0332P are the thin washers. They bottom out on the bracket/nutplate before they are tight. They need to be replaced with "standard" thicker washers (don't know the part number).

Greg/Scott -Hope you get this and pass on.
Cheers
 
OP-64 Errors

Thanks for posting your installation photos and feedback on the documentation errors, I will push this information upstairs to Engineering. I expect that OP-64 and the kit plans pages will be revised sometime in the future.

As many of you suspect, most of the Engineering staff is currently busy with pre-OSH preparations. :D
 
Retrofit flap motor with VP-X

I noticed that the potentiometer in new retrofit flap motor for position sensing calls for a 5v input. VP-X supplies 2.5v for this (pin J1-19) as far as I can tell. Has anyone completed installation with the VP-X with position sensing? Any problems?
 
@rvbuilder2002

Flap Motor Retrofit instructions Corrections OP-65: RV-10

2) OP 64-04 Figure 1, Two washers - NAS1149F0563P - are needed under the castle nut in order to remove the end play. Without a second washer, the castle nut bottoms out on the AN5-25 bolt before end play is removed.

I put a second NAS1149F0563P under the head of the bolt. I also added one NAS1149F0532P (thin washer) between the right bushing and the right bracket to take up most of the slack between the motor and the brackets.

@rvbuilder2002

3) OP 64-05 figure 1, The 6x NAS1149F0332P are the thin washers. They bottom out on the bracket/nutplate before they are tight. They need to be replaced with "standard" thicker washers (don't know the part number).

My kit had a random mix of thick (0363P) and thin (0332P) washers. I went with all thin washers and they didn't bottom out. I wonder if you received the correct length bolts in your kit.
 
- If we want a flap *controller* to set the flaps at various presets such as -3/0/half/full (that's the job of the FPS) we need something in addition to the flap motor retrofit. Van's says the existing FPS (which I have) won't work with the new motor.

My third-hand kit came with the TCW Intelligent Flap Controller, which uses timing instead of flap position. I'd prefer something that uses flap position. Is this a job for an Arduino Nano? I'm not that guy - just asking.
 
What does the new flap switch look like with this retrofit kit from Van's? Prob gonna do this to my flying 10. I use just a momentary toggle right now with no limit switches in the system, just eyeballs.
 
What does the new flap switch look like with this retrofit kit from Van's? Prob gonna do this to my flying 10. I use just a momentary toggle right now with no limit switches in the system, just eyeballs.

I use moment switch and eyeballs.
Advantage is unlimited possible positions for flaps.
Disadvantage is unlimited possible positions for flaps ….
 
If I'm following you saying 'same switch', the new motor doesn't automatically stop at preselected points. It now has the built-in capability to tell you where they are if you're using a position indicator (like on a G3X). Got that right?
I was thinking it would be a positional switch where you place it in the spot for the desired setting, the motor moves the flaps to that spot then stops.
 
I noticed that the potentiometer in new retrofit flap motor for position sensing calls for a 5v input. VP-X supplies 2.5v for this (pin J1-19) as far as I can tell. Has anyone completed installation with the VP-X with position sensing? Any problems?

Bob did you end up figuring this out?

I am in the same boat with the VPX
 
I'm not flying yet but the wiring w VPX all worked ok...as far as I know. I'll double check. The VPX takes care of the programmed positions when the stock momentary switch is activated.
 
wiring old v new

Since I wasn't the builder of my -10 and I'm dumber than the average bear when it comes to these things, I'm struggling with the wiring on the new motor and which ones relate to the 2 (red and black) wires that were on my old motor. I bought my -10 flying (2009 build) and am retrofitting the new flap motor.
The white (GND) I figured goes to the black of the old motor, but what about the red? The retro plans show a POT 5VCD (yellow) and a POT Wiper (red). I tried the hooking up the old motor red (assuming it was power) to the 5VDC yellow of the new motor. Motor wouldn't move with my flap switch.
Guessing I should try the new motor red? The term 'wiper' throws me off.:confused:
 
Wiper

Wiper is the variable lead on the position sensor. You input 5 v to the pot (potentiometer) and wiper sweeps between 0 v and 5 v depending on the position of the actuator.
 
You can think of a pot as looking like at T that has a long horizontal top and a short leg. One side of the horizontal line gets the 5V and the other gets a GRD. This is polarity sensitive for the instrument, though some EFIS' will let your reverse it via S/W. The small leg is the wiper (it moves from one edge of the Horiz line to the other and this is what they call a wiper and it goes to the sense port on the intstrument mesauring the Pot's movement.

I have never seen the new motor, however, the above applies to most any pot that is measuring rotational or linear movement. While the instructions say 5V, you must use the voltage specified by the instrument that reads it in order for it to work. You can search Voltage Divider to see the theory of how this works to provide a variable voltage to the instrument based upon position of the Pot arm. Pots are typically rated on wattage and not volts.
 
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Old motor wires solved

Thanks for the replies. Through some T&E at the plane today, I figured out that the 2 wires from the old motor, red and black, are simply directions for the motor to turn--rod extended (red), rod retracted (black). So they are both essentially 'power', neither ground. Power coming through my panel toggle sending it to either red or black for 'up' or 'down.'
There are 2 wires on the new motor for 'extend' and retract'. I'm thinking I need to hook my old red and black to these and add a grounding wire.
 
Actually

The drive motor is a simple dc motor; one side is (-), the other is (+). As you found out, changing polarity reverses the motor and no additional ground wire is necessary.
 
Wiring resolved

For those at least as challenged as I am with these things, I hope this will help. The final result of the motor wiring:
Wire from flap switch to old motor black wire (flaps up, arm extended) connects to Blue wire of new motor bundle. Black to Blue
Wire from flap switch to old motor red wire (flaps down, arm retracted) connects to Brown wire of new motor bundle. Red to Brown.

Took me let's say more than 3.5 hours :( Getting the old bracket out was a PITA. The base plate for the new motor has little carve outs for rivet tails but mine needed a little extra carving to fit correctly and I had to carve some little arcs on the front down lip of the base plate to allow some wiggle room around a couple of other rivet tails. Otherwise, the kit seemed functional and the tool for match drilling the new holes for the new bracket was really helpful.
 
I got caught in the change over. I ordered and received a PH Flap Motor for RV10 build - Van's actually called me and asked if I still wanted to delete the flap motor when they shipped and I didn't really understand what was going on at the time.

I'm curious if the Van's retrofit motor has the PA-09P-PHA attached to it.

I'm assuming I have the new attach hardware in my kit (haven't got that far just yet), so wondering if I can use my PH motor with the new Van's retrofit hardware?

Looking at the manufacturer's website - looks like they only make one PA-09 at 330 lbs....??

https://www.progressiveautomations....-force-linear-actuator?variant=18277284315203
 
That PH motor looks just like the new one but the Van's motor has a threaded, adjustable rod end for attaching to the flap tube bracket, not the built-in hole like the pictures in your link show. The mounting bracket package I received from Van's had 7 pieces- a build up of 3 pieces per side and a large base plate that connects the 2 vertical sides to each other. The 2 brackets that actually hold the motor/pivot point attach through this base plate into the side brackets.

view


view
 
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That was not my question.
- The fact that the new flap motor has a built in position *sensor* means we don't need an external flap position *sensor* to drive the flap display on the EFIS. That's nice.
- If we want a flap *controller* to set the flaps at various presets such as -3/0/half/full (that's the job of the FPS) we need something in addition to the flap motor retrofit. Van's says the existing FPS (which I have) won't work with the new motor.

Will this solve the issue of those who dont have vpx or equiv to control the flaps?
https://www.aircraftextras.com/FPS-PlusReflex.htm
 
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