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  #31  
Old 03-16-2015, 05:19 PM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 6,863
Default F-718, DWG 18, Longerons

This is a small gotcha. Really just a way to keep information where new builders can easily find it.
I just completed the longeron bending using the Buller Enterprises dies. First a big thank you is in order. I cannot imagine doing this without them. Rather than duplicate, Ken posted an excellent write up so here is the link. Hope he doesn't mind.
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...light=longeron
The only change I made was taping both sides of the vertical flange and lubing both flanges and taped areas with Lubriplate. The dies work so well you really need to creep up on the bend slowly. Make one partial pass (about 90 degrees of vice handle) at each mark first to establish a starting curve then tweak the spots that need more. Watch the longeron as it tends to bend perpendicular to the big bend. If you correct it as you go, there's less to massage later. Use F-721B to verify the forward part of the bend and make sure you are using the location in the plans. It is not placed at the start of the bend. It's farther forward. Use the plans template to get the rest of the bend correct. There is more bend forward than at the aft end of the bend area. If you go too far, use the dies to hold the longeron with the vice jaws only tight enough to keep it it in place. Apply pressure and hit the longeron at the end of the dies to coax it back. It doesn't take much.
On the sharp forward bend, I used oak scraps, a hammer and vice. Apply pressure on the end and whack the bend area with a soft hammer. Work slowly and check often.
The twist is easy. Use a piece of oak or walnut. Just make slot a few inches from each end in opposite directions so the board can be used either direction. Trace the shape and drill holes to make a longeron angle shaped hole. Clamp the longeron at the line slide the twist board over the end and twist. Again work slowly and check the angle often.
The manual says to twist from both ends but the plans show the twist is only at the forward end.
YMMV
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
E-mail: wirejock at yahoo dot com
Builder Blog: http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
Donated 12/01/2023, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV Registered
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.

Last edited by wirejock : 03-16-2015 at 05:28 PM. Reason: add text
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  #32  
Old 03-18-2015, 08:54 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 6,863
Default F-786A,B&C, DWG 18, Fuse J Stiffeners

F-786A,B&C J-stiffeners
The manual says cut them to length and prepare the ends. Ok.
The plans have length dimension. Ok.
There is a detail for F-786B-R Aft End Trim. Ok.
But then the plans Note says, "trim to fit all F-786 stringers. Fore and aft conditions vary depending on the bulkhead. For best fit, note the angle between stringer and bulkhead and trim accordingly."
What to do?
This one was frustrating. Probably my feeble mind.
The answer is cut them all to length first. I cut them all 1/2" too long just in case. They are tricky to cut and I wanted plenty of fudge factor. Make the detail relief cut on all of the forward ends. Remember to make left and right. Slide them in and make sure they fit the forward F-706 bulkhead. They can be final trimmed during assembly by making note of the aft angle and measurements, slide them out and trim the aft edge, slide it back in.
The part that drove me nuts was the note on the plan. I couldn't figure out how they fit into the bulkheads and if all six stiffeners were to be trimmed according to the detail or just the right, left, blah, blah. A simple note would suffice.
OK so trim all six to a starting length then make a right and left F-786 A,B&C using the detail. The second photo shows why they are trimmed.
Each fits into a slot in a bulkhead with the cut but they are all a tiny bit different.
Hope this helps someone avoid the hours of frustration I just experienced.

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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
E-mail: wirejock at yahoo dot com
Builder Blog: http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
Donated 12/01/2023, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV Registered
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.

Last edited by wirejock : 03-19-2015 at 04:49 PM. Reason: change text
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  #33  
Old 04-03-2015, 08:53 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Default F-779, F711, F-712, DWG27a

This is probably not the right way but it worked for me.
The manual basically says to assemble the tailcone then install it as an assembly. No workie! I found fitment issues and problems getting holes to line up. The row of holes along the bottom of the side skin and upper edge of the tailcone skin would not align. They progressively drift till the last hole was a hole off vertically. The tailcone was forced too far down. It all points to the bottom flange tabs on F-710, F-711 & F-712 and the shape of the F-779 skin.
Start the fuse assembly by drawing a centerline on the bottom skin and F-779 tailcone skin.
I also used an edge rolling tool to break the side skin edges a tiny bit so they would lay flat against the bottom skin and F-779 tailcone skin when riveted.
The tailcone skin is really stiff. Mine needed some adjustment to fit the side skins and bulkheads. This is a good place to start. I rolled the edges with my leading edge rolling jig and 3/4" pipe. It took two men to roll it. One to hold it down and one to crank on the pipe. Others had good luck with a ratchet strap. Which ever, make it fit closer to the shape of the bulkheads and cleko it in place without the J-stiffeners or bulkheads.
Install the parts to see if yours fits first. My first F-712 bulkhead was way off. The replacement was much better. Make nots of anything off alignment and disassemble.
Next, adjust the bottom flange tabs on the two aft bulkheads checking fit as you go. My F-710 bulkhead tabs were also off. It means putting parts in and taking them out over and over but in the end, it's worth it.
I have an old pair of Klein pliers with the jaws ground flat and polished. I put Gorilla tape on the jaws so it won't scar the aluminum and use them to gently adjust the bend of the tab. Don't unbend the original bend. Just adjust the bend a little. You could also tap them with a soft hammer. It isn't much. Maybe 1/64"-1/32". That's enough to cause serious binding and throw holes off.
Draw alignment marks on all the bulkhead flanges where no holes exist.
Once it all fits remove F-712 and slide in the J-stiffeners. Hold your ears. The make an unholy noise. Cleko as many holes as possible on the aft bulkheads then align the J-stiffener center line all the way to the aft hole and clamp it in place at the fore and aft end.
Mark or tape near the J-stiffener aft hole with a huge note, "Do Not Dimple skin, J-stiffener or bulkhead!" The rudder stop goes there and the holes don't get dimpled.
Now use plumb bobs to align the fuse to the centerline and start drilling. I used a #42 first to keep things tight. I started forward drilling every fourth hole working left and right and checking plumb lines and making sure holes were drilled on the J-stiffener center line. Once every fourth is drilled, go back and hit the ones in between. At this point you should have clekos in every other hole. Finish off the remaining holes then go back and final drill to size.
Hopefully this saves someone the week it took me to get it right including two new J-stiffeners and F-712 bulkhead.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
E-mail: wirejock at yahoo dot com
Builder Blog: http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
Donated 12/01/2023, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV Registered
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.

Last edited by wirejock : 04-04-2015 at 02:50 PM. Reason: Revised
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  #34  
Old 04-03-2015, 10:42 PM
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Arie Arie is offline
 
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Location: Dubai
Posts: 137
Default

Hi Larry
Good job!
Thank you for your contributions to this thread. It surely keep me from making mistakes.
regards
Arie
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  #35  
Old 04-25-2015, 11:06 AM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Location: Estes Park, CO
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Default F-715, DWG 22

This is not a big gotcha, just a little head scratcher.
Vans manual has the builder install F-715 L&R ribs after the center fuse is riveted. I'm probably messing up but it just seemed logical to drill it while match drilling the rest of the center fuse. Time will tell if I'm wrong.
So I waited till everything else was clekoed.
Draw a center line on the bottom flange. Insert the rib. Mark the skin holes on the rib. Notice how far off they fall. My ribs needed a tiny bit removed from the forward edge, maybe 1/16", to fit. It will be bent a little by fluting so don't remove much. Flute the bottom flange till the line matches the skin holes. Match drill and cleko.
Now do the same with the upper flange to seat floors. There is no center line on top because the alignment is set by the position of the rib. The manual says to drill holes so the rib web is .032" outside the outboard edge of the floor. I used a couple scrap pieces of .032" offset and clekoed together to make a spacer shim. Flute till it is as close as possible then match drill.
The pain in all this fluting is the rib has to be removed to flute. Lots of installing and removing of parts unless your the Bodisatva of Fluting.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
E-mail: wirejock at yahoo dot com
Builder Blog: http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
Donated 12/01/2023, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV Registered
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #36  
Old 05-08-2015, 06:14 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 6,863
Default Center fuse riveting

It's been posted the center fuse ribs are a pain to rivet. I agree.
This is probably not a gotcha but may help someone down the road.
The step is riveting the seat ribs to the F-704 aft bulkhead then riveting the seat and baggage ribs to the F-705 bulkhead.
Start as directed with the seat ribs to F-704. The trick here is to do one at a time. Don't cleko them all in place. They will only be in the way and don't need to be there. Brace the bulkhead so you can work without it sliding around. Work slow. Work slow. Did I repeat? Yes, work slow. Use Gorilla tape on the factory head so you don't make smileys.

On to the hard part. Again, work one rib at a time. Insert rivets from aft side. The baggage ribs flex enough to get a gun on the factory side. Brace the bulkhead so you can push on the gun. Use the Gorilla tape. Remember the shims on the center four seat ribs.
Get a piece of windshield washer hose from the local auto parts store. 1/8" ID. Cut a piece slightly longer than the rivet shank. Use it on every rivet to keep the rib flange from lifting. You can remove it after a few hits once the rivet has swelled enough to hold the parts tight. The tough rivets are the top ones. It's tough to get a bar in that tiny space. Hopefully you have a bar that will fit in the space.

It took a while but only one rivet had to be drilled.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
E-mail: wirejock at yahoo dot com
Builder Blog: http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
Donated 12/01/2023, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV Registered
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #37  
Old 05-08-2015, 10:06 PM
Staunch111 Staunch111 is offline
 
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Location: Sydney
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Default

Wirejock - keep them coming. Thank you!
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  #38  
Old 05-14-2015, 04:56 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Location: Estes Park, CO
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Default Aft fuse bulkhead longeron slots

Not a gotcha but may save some bad words.
When you prep the aft fuse bulkheads, check the fit of the longeron slots.
Mine were too narrow. A few bad word and a fine file and the longeron slides right in but it is much easier to prep them. It's not easy to handle 15' of longeron and find out it won't fit!
So if you file the slot, remove material off the bottom side of the slot, not the top. The top edge sets the position of the longeron relative to the edge of the side skin.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
E-mail: wirejock at yahoo dot com
Builder Blog: http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
Donated 12/01/2023, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV Registered
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #39  
Old 05-20-2015, 01:00 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Location: Estes Park, CO
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Default Joining Center and Aft fuselage/side skins

This one is also not a "gotcha" but it is one of those head scratching, profanity laced moments.
Joining is not top bad. This is all based on the fuse upside down per manual. Get a helper or two or four.
Leave the baggage skins off for now. Seat skins are ok. Leave F623 corner ribs off as well. Flip the center fuse and place the forward F704 assembly on a sturdy saw horse.
Slide it back so the center fuse skin is on top of the aft fuse skin. Now move it back till the baggage rib tabs slide into place on the inside of F706. Cleko skin and baggage ribs in place.

Now the profanity commences.
If yours is like many, when you cleko the side skins on, the forward skin is about 1/2" off toward the top of the airplane.
I started by placing a 1"X 2" shim under each of the F704 C,D,H uprights with the longeron inside and out of the way. Move the center sawhorse to just aft of the F707 bulkhead and place blocks under the fuse at that point. I use 4"x4"s. This gives you a fulcrum to move the F706 bulkhead up and down by lifting or pressing down on the tail. Like a teeter totter.
Next cleko the skin to the F704 and F705 bulkheads.
Now you need another person to move the tail till you get close enough to insert a pic in a hole. I found the hole at the intersection of the two skins, F706 and F786B J-stiffener worked best. Move the tail till you get close enough to muscle the parts that final bit and the pic will go in. Once a pic went in, my wife put a cleko in the holes above and below. The rest was easy.
Remove the shims under the F704 assembly, allow the longeron to slide over. The assembly rests on top of the longeron flange. Place clamps to keep parts stable.
Remove the blocks on the saw horse at F707 and put shims and clamps on either side of the fuse at each saw horse to keep the fuse from sliding off.

__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
E-mail: wirejock at yahoo dot com
Builder Blog: http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
Donated 12/01/2023, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV Registered
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.

Last edited by wirejock : 05-20-2015 at 01:02 PM. Reason: typo
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  #40  
Old 05-23-2015, 06:06 AM
bill v bill v is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: zeeland michigan
Posts: 127
Default canopy decks

my manual says on page 8-10 to rivet both side rails, canopy decks and gussets. I took this to mean part f-721a forward canopy deck but on page 8-20 is when you get detailed directions on installing f-721a this is when you want to fit f-721a as it must fit between the side rail and front bulkhead.
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