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  #11  
Old 11-04-2020, 02:47 PM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,908
Default The bank

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsOnWheels View Post
If I could afford a 10 right now I would come down and buy yours...rusty cylinders and all...
Hi Colin, all my airplanes were financed at my local bank, including an Air Tractor for $350,000 on a ten year note. (Thatíll give you some sleepless nights!)

Talk to your bank about the RV-10...they might surprise you.

Regards,
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Air Tractor 502/PT-6
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2020, 03:31 PM
Freemasm Freemasm is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Orlando
Posts: 417
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Other options.

AOPA Finance
Pilot Bank in Tampa (guy who bought my Mooney got financed through them)
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  #13  
Old 11-04-2020, 03:45 PM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 2,688
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Hmmm. Beware DAR's???

Anyone doing a pre-purchase examination should feel obligated to inform the purchaser of all findings. Then the next phase is usually a discussion with the purchaser to help them make a decision.

Usually, it is not just one item that is a sale-breaker, but sometimes pointing to one item is way out for the purchaser. Sometimes those can be difficult conversations with the seller, who may not like to hear anything negative about his/her airplane. We can all understand that.

If the seller pays for the prebuy, then they are entitled to the report. IF the purchaser paid for the prebuy, they aren't always willing to give the entire report to the seller if they are walking away, as now the seller has a report to help them fix everything, at no cost to them. I've been taken to task for that, and rightly so. In one case, the seller walked away, and the plane was then advertised as "prebuy already done by Vic Syracuse, and all items fixed." Quite candidly, that is a little misleading, as we really don't know the quality fo the repairs.

Most sales actually go through, with the purchaser usually negotiating for compensation in price, or asking the seller to fix things. At least that is what I am seeing in the prebuys that I am involved with.

This is supposed to be a good thing for both parties, albeit some sellers are forced to sell for reasons beyond their control, so it is not always an all-around happy time.

I like being involved in these as more often than not (about 70%) of the deals go through, and everyone is happy. That's the way it is supposed to be. But not every airplane for sale out there is not always right for every buyer. Some take time. Some find out the airplane needs works, and that's not what they want. More and more buyers are coming from the certified world to our community, and they want an airplane they can just go fly and not have to tinker with. Others are OK with a project or one that needs tinkering. Those conversations should be had in the initial phone calls between the 2 parties.

Just my thoughts.

Vic
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Vic Syracuse

Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
Kitplanes "Unairworthy" monthly feature
EAA Sport Aviation "Checkpoints" column
EAA Homebuilt Council Chair/member EAA BOD
Author "Pre-Buy Guide for Amateur-Built Aircraft"
www.Baselegaviation.com
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  #14  
Old 11-04-2020, 04:14 PM
odens_14 odens_14 is offline
 
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Location: Alexandria, MN
Posts: 327
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It's possible buyer was told it was minor rust, but just had cold feet in general and used the minor rust as his "get out of jail free" card.

While not entirely the same, I had a similar thing happen on a home inspection. The buyers completely backed out of a $300,000+ home purchase, over what my realtor called a "pretty clean" inspection report. Buyer's weren't even interested in talking discount or requesting repairs; reading between the lines they just had second thoughts on the purchase and used the inspection to get out of it...
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Alexandria, MN
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2020, 09:12 AM
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RWoodard RWoodard is offline
 
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Location: Brighton, Colorado
Posts: 462
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I've seen the scenario Chris describes play out many times. My brother has been a real estate agent for almost 30 years and sees people use the inspection clause as an opportunity to either renegotiate the purchase price or bail altogether.

Whenever I sell airplanes, I tell the buyer that they're welcome to do a pre-buy, but the sole purpose is to determine if they want to buy it at the price I'm asking. It's perfectly reasonable for a buyer to want to know exactly what they're getting, but I usually have a very good grasp on what I'm selling and the asking price reflects that.

The one exception I've made to my "no negotiation" policy is when the pre-buy turned up an issue that I (and the actual inspector) should have caught on my Citabria annual. I flat out told the buyer that I was embarrassed that I missed it and that the issue would be remedied immediately.

I had one buyer walk on the purchase of this same Citabria because one of the cylinders showed 69/80 and the other three were mid-70's. He wanted an allowance for a top overhaul. Nope... other fish in the sea.
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  #16  
Old 11-05-2020, 10:29 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Location: 08A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic syracuse View Post
If the seller pays for the prebuy, then they are entitled to the report. IF the purchaser paid for the prebuy, they aren't always willing to give the entire report to the seller if they are walking away, as now the seller has a report to help them fix everything, at no cost to them.
They have a cost. They probably held the airplane while waiting for the prebuy to take place, allowed their pride and joy to be dismantled, and likely spent a fair bit of time in the process. There is also an emotional investment for most folks, something never to be discounted.

A buyer who won't allow you to share the written results, or stand with you in the hangar while you personally explain your findings to the owner, is pretty much identifying themselves as a large round pink hole.

And anyway, most of the issues are arguably safety problems.

I'd recommend a policy of always sharing your results with both parties. You're not going to lose any buyer business if it's an up-front standard, and it will eliminate issues like Pierre's.
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Barrett IO-390

Last edited by DanH : 11-05-2020 at 10:34 AM.
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  #17  
Old 11-05-2020, 05:44 PM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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Location: Locust Grove, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
They have a cost. They probably held the airplane while waiting for the prebuy to take place, allowed their pride and joy to be dismantled, and likely spent a fair bit of time in the process. There is also an emotional investment for most folks, something never to be discounted.

A buyer who won't allow you to share the written results, or stand with you in the hangar while you personally explain your findings to the owner, is pretty much identifying themselves as a large round pink hole.

And anyway, most of the issues are arguably safety problems.

I'd recommend a policy of always sharing your results with both parties. You're not going to lose any buyer business if it's an up-front standard, and it will eliminate issues like Pierre's.

I always do that when both parties are present.
It's not fair to the buyer when they are not present and there is a large list of findings and a high probability that they are going to walk away. That just gives the seller a free inspection. That's not cool.
If it's a safety issue I do let the owner know.


Vic
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Vic Syracuse

Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
Kitplanes "Unairworthy" monthly feature
EAA Sport Aviation "Checkpoints" column
EAA Homebuilt Council Chair/member EAA BOD
Author "Pre-Buy Guide for Amateur-Built Aircraft"
www.Baselegaviation.com

Last edited by vic syracuse : 11-05-2020 at 05:47 PM. Reason: clarification
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  #18  
Old 11-06-2020, 07:57 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic syracuse View Post
That just gives the seller a free inspection. That's not cool.
Vic
As Dan mentions, its not really free for the seller. Maybe with this knowledge, sellers will take a more diligent role in only allowing pre-buys from providers with fair practices.

Sellers should consider the pre-buy process when making decisions to "take their plane off the market." Remember, this goes both ways. If we always treat the sellers this way, it will come around in kind. Eventually, you will show up for the pre-buy and find it was sold to someone else. Following these guidelines, they're not really obligated to share that with the buyer (information sharing is typically a two way street). Obviously this doesn't apply if a non-refundable deposit was made and that is a fair remuneration.

Sellers would be wise to negotiate this kind of stuff before the pre-buy. Many good lessons for sellers in this thread.

Larry
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N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019

Last edited by lr172 : 11-06-2020 at 08:04 AM.
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  #19  
Old 11-06-2020, 08:24 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Not being critical Vic. I sincerely believe 100% disclosure to all parties would be beneficial to you. The long term goal is to always have both parties singing your praises when the job is done.

Remember, I've been subject to the automotive equivalent of a pre-buy nearly every day for 35 years, as either buyer or seller. It develops a lot of empathy for both.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2020, 09:00 AM
74-07 74-07 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 567
Default DARs

Just a question.......if the seller doesn't get briefed on what the report details, how do they know the items being "negotiated" by the buyer are even legit. Example: The DAR hands the buyer a report saying the airplane is near perfect. The seller is not privy to this information. The buyer then brings up "issues" and uses this to try to negotiate the price.

Not being overly suspicious but there are thousands of dollars at stake on these RV sales. Am I missing something?
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