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Buyer?s Etiquette

AN23

Well Known Member
Ok, our beautiful RV-7 was almost immediately sold back to it’s original builder who flew it 1800 nm back home. It was a near perfect airplane that was beautifully built and updated to make it even better. I’m glad it worked out this way. During the few days it was on Barnstormers, I answered a bunch of calls. Most were from great people that were truly interested. Thank you. There were others though that didn’t fit that description. If you are trying to find an RV (I’m looking for a RV-8 right now), you may want to think about how you approach the seller. The following are examples of what I found to be a real turn off as a seller:

1. You don’t introduce yourself
2. 1st question - “What’s your bottom dollar.” Why in the world would I bid against myself? If you are really interested, ask and I’ll send you all of the info you request. Then, if it meets your expectations, come visit. I published the asking price, the next move is yours if, after doing your due diligence, you want the airplane.
3. Select your buyer’s agents carefully. I’ve experienced, as a seller, a real pro that you guys all know. This time, I was contacted by another guy who warned me that he has been thrown out of people’s hangars and went into detail about the confrontations. I immediately decided I wasn’t going to work with him. His customer may have missed the airplane he’s been looking for.
4. It’s ok to come look, decide it’s not what you want and leave. Just try to respect the seller’s time and thank them for showing you yet another beautiful RV. You’ll learn something and maybe make a friend along the way.

Thanks to all that were interested. The airplane is now EXACTLY where it belongs and the story had a very happy ending.
 
Sad to hear of your bad experiences before it all worked out okay. Human nature means there are sad examples in every potential sale -:(
Hope you find an 8, you'll then know it's the best of the bunch:)
 
Selling an aircraft can be a major PIA and I'm convinced that it is getting to be more so as time marches on. I for one don't so much mind the people asking for a bottom dollar figure, but those who immediately begin degrading the aircraft without ever having had the benefit of examining either it or the logbooks really get my goat, so to speak. I guess they are under the assumption that they have the ability to perform some sort of Jedi mind trick where they degrade the unseen aircraft and somehow the owner begins to subconsciously agree with them and immediately decides to institute a substantial price reduction.

Then there are those who want pre-buy inspections, purchase agreements, escrow accounts, insurance quotes, title searches, and seller funded flight training all for a $10,000 Cessna 150. I think you should count your blessings that your were able to sell your plane back to its builder.
 
Agree. Great guy that knew the airplane better than anyone. He and I became friends during my purchase from him.
 
Having sold airplanes, exotic cars, and various other small market items over the years, the absolute worst thing a prospective buyer can ever say to me is some variation of "what's the least you'll take for it?"

My response is always, "what's the most you'll pay for it?" I've yet to conclude a single sale with any of those yahoos.

Someone with so little familiarity with - or respect for - the process, doesn't deserve any seller's time and attention.
 
When asked the question, "What's your bottom dollar?" My answer is, "Did you read the ad closely? I think I included the price!"
 
I've bought and sold several airplanes, and I often get that same question about bottom dollar price. It is annoying, and as Ken said, I don't think I can remember closing a deal with any of them.

I usually just repeat my asking price and tell them that I will consider an offer. That's usually the last I hear from them.
 
Good one

That was my first thought when reading this. How little will you take? How much will you pay?

Gotta remember that. I've bought and sold a lot of vehicles. Always got turned off by that. Usually reply with the posted price. When I buy, the vehicle is closely examined while I calculate from the asking price. Then I make an offer and explain what was found. If they don't like my offer and don't want to counter, I say thank you and goodbye.
 
All 5 bought and sold being a "firm" add buyer and "firm" price seller.

I find, aside from that, there are certain question asked, answered and appreciated by buyers and sellers that are not pita types

When those cues do not occur, it's likely a waste of time.

Reality TV ruined many a brain- they seem to think flashing half the cash if asking or starting a negotiation at XX% discount equals getting a steal at XX/2.
 
Yep, I've actually had people show up and state that they want the item but only brought $XXX.

"I'll take that as a non-refundable deposit and you can bring the rest when you come to pick it up!"
 
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Then there's the old "I'm a cash buyer" BS. Who gives a flying crapola? The seller always gets cash (or its equivalent) one way or another. Why they think I'll be impressed with their tiny wad is beyond me.
 
Then there's the old "I'm a cash buyer" BS. Who gives a flying crapola? The seller always gets cash (or its equivalent) one way or another. Why they think I'll be impressed with their tiny wad is beyond me.

Because you know someone who already has cash on hand is going to lead to a quicker closing than someone who has to go through the process of applying for and getting a loan. That does matter to me.
 
Because you know someone who already has cash on hand is going to lead to a quicker closing than someone who has to go through the process of applying for and getting a loan. That does matter to me.

That?s only true if both buyers are meeting the sellers price. The problem is ?cash buyers? tend to think they can entice you into taking a lower offer for that reason.
 
That’s only true if both buyers are meeting the sellers price. The problem is “cash buyers” tend to think they can entice you into taking a lower offer for that reason.

Exactly right.

They can. Within reason I’ll often take less for a quick sale. The key is “within reason.”

Man, I won't. The price is what it is and was arrived at by calculation not chance.

Whether or not a buyer has financing is one of my first questions and is usually addressed upfront in my ad. As in: if you don't have financing in place at my asking price, don't waste my time or yours.

I also believe that the chief implied cash deal "benefit" has to do with sales price declaration for the IRS. In other words, the buyer is trying to entice the seller into committing tax fraud. No, thanks. Not only will I not do that, I don't want anything to do with someone who thinks I might.
 
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So...

So you are saying that you included every single part and parcel of the airplane you built for sales tax calculation, including every untaxed, out of state sale?

If you didn't, then you would be guilty of tax fraud as well...

Just saying'...
 
My way of answering the cash lowballer folks is to say that currently my price is what it is but next year if I have not sold the item that I may consider less but in no case would I consider anything other than cash. Thank you for your interest.
 
So you are saying that you included every single part and parcel of the airplane you built for sales tax calculation, including every untaxed, out of state sale?

If you didn't, then you would be guilty of tax fraud as well...

Just saying'...

Yes, I keep meticulous records of every purchase made for my projects (no matter how small) and submit them when it?s time for sales tax calculation. Don?t you?

The last thing I am is a hypocrite.
 
I also believe that the chief implied cash deal "benefit" has to do with sales price declaration for the IRS. In other words, the buyer is trying to entice the seller into committing tax fraud. No, thanks. Not only will I not do that, I don't want anything to do with someone who thinks I might.
That’s a big assumption. If I’m asking $69.5K and one person offers $69.5k but is going to have to get started on a loan process that may take a few days and another offers $69K with ready cash, I might very well take the $69K ready cash that day. It has nothing to do with ethics.
 
I'm both buyer and seller every working day...about 40 years worth. I agree with all of Rob's points.

Having sold airplanes, exotic cars, and various other small market items over the years, the absolute worst thing a prospective buyer can ever say to me is some variation of "what's the least you'll take for it?"

So what to do?

Laugh, and say "Ahh heck, there's no virtue in asking a man to cut his own throat."

It's a nice way of deflecting the question without closing the door. And folks with a brain usually get the message.

"Cash offer" has an interesting background . Folks honestly think they are offering something of value, but if asked, most cannot identify why it might be of interest to the seller...or even why they said it.

It has roots in the post WWII used car market. In those days there was no bank or credit union financing for used cars. All financing was extended by the selling dealer.

If a dealer paid $1500 for a nice used car (1950 prices), sold it for $2500, and took $500 down, his entire cash investment and half his profit went out the gate with the car. It only came back slowly in payments. In the meantime, none of it was available to invest in another car for the lot.

Thus the birth of a "cash discount". The dealer could justify taking (in this example) $2250 in cash, as he could immediately replace the car and sell again.

Fast forward to today. Banks and credit unions pay dealers to generate finance contracts, plus a dealer has all his money immediately, cost and profit, when he assigns the contract. Cash (as in "write a check") is absolutely undesirable. In theory, the dealer must raise the price in order to equal a financed sale. Don't say it.

BTW, if the customer is silly enough to actually bring $100 bills, it even generates extra paperwork. The trigger is $10,001 in cash or cash equivalent collected within a 12 month period in relation to one transaction. A dealer is required to file a Form 8300 with the IRS.
 
That’s a big assumption. If I’m asking $69.5K and one person offers $69.5k but is going to have to get started on a loan process that may take a few days and another offers $69K with ready cash, I might very well take the $69K ready cash that day. It has nothing to do with ethics.

Sure, but that’s not the way these situations usually develop.

In my experience, it’s not a matter of two simultaneous offers. It’s nearly always one guy who says (effectively), “Take my lowball cash offer because - wink, wink - you’ll make out better with it than selling for more to a guy who has to take a loan.” That’s absolutely an ethics problem and one I dismiss out of hand whenever it comes up.

For what it’s worth, after selling an airplane, multiple exotic cars, many watches, and other “luxury” goods over the years, I don’t think I’ve ever sold anything to anybody who had to take a loan to fund the purchase. All things being equal, I’d rather not deal with with buyers who need loans. Yes, people utilize OPM for a variety of reasons, not all having to do with raw necessity, but still...
 
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So what to do?

Laugh, and say "Ahh heck, there's no virtue in asking a man to cut his own throat."

It's a nice way of deflecting the question without closing the door. And folks with a brain usually get the message.

Fair point. I guess I?ve been unlucky in not meeting too many folks with a brain, at least amongst the set of guys who?ve opened conversations with ?what?s the least you?ll take?? When I?ve responded with a laugh and ?well, what?s the most you?ll pay??, quite a few of them have acted (perhaps even been) pissy and genuinely insulted. I guess my general opinion of my fellow man is pretty low and tends strongly toward the cynical. Interestingly, one of the characteristics of the pilot community which I like best is that it?s highly self-selecting for the ?right? type of folks (at least for me): intelligent, independent, honest, creative, and interesting.

BTW, thanks for the interesting history of the ?cash deal? - I?ve never heard that before, but it makes perfect sense when placed in context.
 
I guess I’ve been unlucky in not meeting too many folks with a brain, at least amongst the set of guys who’ve opened conversations with “what’s the least you’ll take?” When I’ve responded with a laugh and “well, what’s the most you’ll pay?”, quite a few of them have acted (perhaps even been) pissy and genuinely insulted.

Well, it's not something a professional would say...mostly because they tried it a few times, it didn't work for them either, and no sales = no food.

Hunger is very educational ;)

BTW, thanks for the interesting history of the “cash deal” - I’ve never heard that before, but it makes perfect sense when placed in context.

As dealer cash reserves got larger in the 50's, they pushed financing to make more money. Truth In Lending and Regulation Z didn't come along until 1968-69. Prior to, much of the list price was really an undisclosed interest charge, so "cash discount" gained even more foothold with the public.

All different today, but it's hard to change long-held custom.
 
I would say "Cash Buyer!" pays the most dividends on the bottom of the sales charts, but holds some value at the upper end, due to the aforementioned 'hassle' of dealing with the details of a buyer who needs to finance a purchase. Ben Franklins laid out on a table have closed a deal or two at a discount for me over the years for items under $10k.
 
Yes, I keep meticulous records of every purchase made for my projects (no matter how small) and submit them when it?s time for sales tax calculation. Don?t you?

The last thing I am is a hypocrite.

Yes I keep track. Here is a question for you. So let?s say you need some AN426-3-3.5 rivets. There are approximately 5618 rivets per pound and you buy 1/8 of a pound, or about 702. Of those, you use 56. Do you calculate the tax on those 56 rivets and add it to the aircraft price while putting the rest in ?inventory?? Or do you just add the total tax on all 702 rivets to the aircraft cost?

You will no doubt say that this is a trivial example, and it is, however, in a project the size of these aircraft, adding 12.5 times the tax to the aircraft value (total tax on 1/8 lb versus 56) can add a substantial amount of tax in the end. The other side of that coin is not adding anything which is fraud.

I think most folks estimate the value at the end of the build based on approximate values along the way...
 
So since we are talking buyers etiquette here, let me pass this example by you and tell me what you would do. This happened to me on the sale of my RV12 and I still feel bad about it.

Buyer one calls and is very interested in the airplane. We talk several times and after about a week, he makes plans to fly commercially into my home state to look over the airplane. He never talks about price with me and never offers to make a deposit and I didn?t ask for one either. Trip is planned for next week.

Next day, buyer two calls. I said I have someone interested and he?s coming in next week to look at the airplane. Buyer two offers me full price and is willing to wire me a $5k deposit and says he will be there tomorrow to inspect the airplane and sign the paperwork.

What do you do???

Here?s what I did. I let buyer two come inspect the airplane and closed the deal. I then called buyer one to tell him the airplane was sold. He was very upset and I felt bad (and still do). He was a really nice guy.

Here?s my reasoning. With no deposit, I had no way of knowing whether buyer one would show up or if he did, buy the airplane. However, if I would have asked for a deposit, buyer one probably would have sent me one. I?ve never been able to figure out if it was his fault for not putting a deposit down or my fault for not asking him for one.

Your thoughts?
 
From the first page going back to the ?what?s your bottom dollar? question, I?ll sometimes ask that as a clue bird that I think you?re asking price is high, and second being my time home between deployments is very very limited. I don?t have time to play the back and forth game. I want to know if I?m wasting either of ours time or if I need to move on. If the price is in the neighborhood of what I?m willing to pay, then I?ll take it from there. If they treat me like ****, I move on. It probably isn?t as great as the seller claims anyways.

My last 4 airplanes have all been purchased sight unseen. Most by asking what do you have to have for it?
 
So since we are talking buyers etiquette here, let me pass this example by you and tell me what you would do. This happened to me on the sale of my RV12 and I still feel bad about it.

Buyer one calls and is very interested in the airplane. We talk several times and after about a week, he makes plans to fly commercially into my home state to look over the airplane. He never talks about price with me and never offers to make a deposit and I didn?t ask for one either. Trip is planned for next week.

Next day, buyer two calls. I said I have someone interested and he?s coming in next week to look at the airplane. Buyer two offers me full price and is willing to wire me a $5k deposit and says he will be there tomorrow to inspect the airplane and sign the paperwork.

What do you do???

Here?s what I did. I let buyer two come inspect the airplane and closed the deal. I then called buyer one to tell him the airplane was sold. He was very upset and I felt bad (and still do). He was a really nice guy.

Here?s my reasoning. With no deposit, I had no way of knowing whether buyer one would show up or if he did, buy the airplane. However, if I would have asked for a deposit, buyer one probably would have sent me one. I?ve never been able to figure out if it was his fault for not putting a deposit down or my fault for not asking him for one.

Your thoughts?

Don?t feel bad. But be upfront...a deposit or it stays on the market. I did the opposite and held it for a ?friend? only to lose the sale 3 times over.
 
In line with the RV12 example, but different. Back before I started on the RV I was interested in building a Volocity. I found a kit for sale about 4 hrs away. I spoke to him on Wednesday. We agreeded on a price and place to meet on Friday. I offered a deposite and he declined as unessesary. I got the cash and took Friday off work. Picked up the trailier. As I am departing, trailer in tow, he called me and said he sold it. I was PO'd, heck, I still am. As far as I sm concerned we had a deal, a verbal handshake. I am a person of my word, and I don't respect those that are not. I have been on the other side of the situation and turned down higher offers since I had already made a commitment.

If price is not discussed or a deposit to hold the item, then there is no hard commitment. For the RV12, I probably would have called buyer 1 first and offered to hold it with a deposit.
 
Randy,
I will tell you my thoughts.
As soon after you made the situation with the second potential buyer, I would have called the first buyer and told him that the second buyer was coming tomorrow and will willing to put down some money. At least you would have given the first buyer an opportunity to put money down. Maybe he would not have wanted to put as much down, that would have put the sale in his ball park; maybe he would have backed out at that point. This would have not made you the "bad" guy in his eyes. I do understand how he felt, but he probably felt that because you did not ask for security deposit he was safe in the sale.

I was once going to buy a lawn mower. the price was much less and so was the object of the sale, but I told the buyer I was on my way to look and possibly purchase the mower. I called the seller when I was within a few miles of his place, and it was then that he told me that he had sold the mower. I sorta understand why he did what he did, i might not have bought it when I saw it and he had a buyer in hand who did buy it. But, as soon as he sold the mower he could have called me and told me not to come as he had just sold it. He did not do that and I had driven an hour already before I called him. He wasted my time and gasoline, I was a little upset. In reality when there is no money involved then it is an open sale, until it isn't.

I understand why you did what you did, but letting the buyer know your intentions as soon as you knew about the second buyer, would have been better. Just my thoughts, I am sure you did what you thought was ok.

Moral of the story when you want an item, put money down, secure the deal first, then proceed; You take a chance if you don't.
In my Real Estate sales, I do not collect a commission until till the paper work is signed and money exchanges hands. Anything can happen till then and sometime does.
 
So since we are talking buyers etiquette here, let me pass this example by you and tell me what you would do. This happened to me on the sale of my RV12 and I still feel bad about it.

Buyer one calls and is very interested in the airplane. We talk several times and after about a week, he makes plans to fly commercially into my home state to look over the airplane. He never talks about price with me and never offers to make a deposit and I didn?t ask for one either. Trip is planned for next week.

Next day, buyer two calls. I said I have someone interested and he?s coming in next week to look at the airplane. Buyer two offers me full price and is willing to wire me a $5k deposit and says he will be there tomorrow to inspect the airplane and sign the paperwork.

What do you do???

Here?s what I did. I let buyer two come inspect the airplane and closed the deal. I then called buyer one to tell him the airplane was sold. He was very upset and I felt bad (and still do). He was a really nice guy.

Here?s my reasoning. With no deposit, I had no way of knowing whether buyer one would show up or if he did, buy the airplane. However, if I would have asked for a deposit, buyer one probably would have sent me one. I?ve never been able to figure out if it was his fault for not putting a deposit down or my fault for not asking him for one.

Your thoughts?

I had an exact same situation with the sale of my 7. Plane not advertised, both want-to-buy or reverse enquiry.
Buyer #1 had been asking not particularly detailed questions but seemed keen enough, but all by email over a few weeks - eventually organising flights to come see it.
Buyer #2 was an industry professional, knew EXACTLY what he wanted and was on the phone straight away with very detailed questions including the status of all SB's. Flew down to see it the next day, liked what he saw and deposited 10% that night.
Buyer #1 was not happy. Claimed he would have paid asking price etc...
Against my better judgement, I gave him a small amount of $$ towards his airfare to stop him giving me any more of an earful. But I too felt bad for him -and I had got my asking price (possibly under priced it in hindsight)

We don't have as many RVs down here, so I guess the odds of this occurring are lower than in the US.
Nice, well equipped RVs aren't that common, so they either are in hot demand - or on the nose. Not a very liquid market. Depends on the economy and the exchange rate to a fair degree.

Still not as bad as selling motor vehicles though. Had one buyer give me a deposit only to have his "finance representative" call me the next day and tell me he was only financed to a lesser amount. Politely told him to tell his "client" that I was re-advertising it and keeping his deposit at the end of the week. Settled the next day at the agreed price. :)
 
I have lost planes being second caller, but first viewer and was fine with it.

First was coming next day. He bought, I got the call I missed it. Clearly communicated before I saw it.
 
Just to add a little perspective to my story, my sale went down about a month after I had a previous interaction that didn’t go so well. I had a bunch of interested buyers from AirVenture. When I got home a local buyer contacted me for a checkout and a ride. He seemed really interested. I thought honesty is the best policy so I told him that I had several others interested. Well, that pissed him off. He felt I was pressuring him to make a quick decision. He left and I never heard from him and my other “interested” buyers fizzled out too It was at this point that I decided that the first person to show up with the money would get it. No more banking on promises.

Bottom line for buyers. Do your research and if interested, put a deposit down. All the deposit buys you is the right of first refusal. Be ready to move if you feel it is right for you. If you are not ready to buy, then stay out of the process or don’t be disappointed that the airplane is sold by the time you make up your mind.

The road is full of squashed squirrels who couldn’t make up their mind. Don’t be the squirrel.
 
Randy question ?

I have followed this discussion with interest and empathy. The dilemma I see is the amount of deposit. How big should a deposit be to make you feel good if you miss buyer #2 and buyer #1 walks. Conversely. How much would YOU be willing to lose as #1 if you didn’t like the plane or final price and walk?

You win some and lose some. First money at agreed price is simple.
 
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Buyer one calls and is very interested in the airplane. We talk several times and after about a week, he makes plans to fly commercially into my home state to look over the airplane. He never talks about price with me and never offers to make a deposit and I didn?t ask for one either. Trip is planned for next week.

Next day, buyer two calls. I said I have someone interested and he?s coming in next week to look at the airplane. Buyer two offers me full price and is willing to wire me a $5k deposit and says he will be there tomorrow to inspect the airplane and sign the paperwork.

What do you do???

Personally, I would have told buyer two that I had a verbal commitment with another buyer and would have to get back to him, then called buyer one back and told him that I had someone ready to send a down payment and commit to purchase and unless he was willing to do the same I would have to sell to buyer two.
 
Personally, I would have told buyer two that I had a verbal commitment with another buyer and would have to get back to him, then called buyer one back and told him that I had someone ready to send a down payment and commit to purchase and unless he was willing to do the same I would have to sell to buyer two.
This sounds reasonable, but from Buyer 1's perspective, it could be construed as the start of a scam... Buyer 1 doesn't know if Buyer 2 really exists or not, and the seller is calling back asking for money.

But Buyer 1 can always decline to put a deposit down, and then at least it's clear that the Seller can proceed with Buyer 2 without any moral uncertainty.
 
I have followed this discussion with interest and empathy. The dilemma I see is the amount of deposit. How big should a deposit be to make you feel good if you miss buyer #2 and buyer #1 walks. Conversely. How much would YOU be willing to lose as #1 if you didn?t like the plane or final price and walk?

You win some and lose some. First money at agreed price is simple.

I have a contract that I make all potential buyers sign. The deposit ($5k) is fully refundable if I sell it to someone else but I give them the right of first refusal to match any offer. Some will sign and some won?t. My buyer one didn?t want to sign anything before seeing the airplane.
 
Personally, I would have told buyer two that I had a verbal commitment with another buyer and would have to get back to him, then called buyer one back and told him that I had someone ready to send a down payment and commit to purchase and unless he was willing to do the same I would have to sell to buyer two.

Different people react differently. Some respond real negatively if you tell them someone else is interested. They think they’re being manipulated. I think handling it the same as a real estate contract is the way to go. Put money down, commit to following through but refundable if something changes, deposit gives you right of first refusal but doesn’t stop me from getting other offers in the mean time.

Money talks, squirrels walk.
 
Personally, I would have told buyer two that I had a verbal commitment with another buyer and would have to get back to him, then called buyer one back and told him that I had someone ready to send a down payment and commit to purchase and unless he was willing to do the same I would have to sell to buyer two.

I agree with this! I bought a plane ticket for a Thursday to inspect and likely purchase a project advertised here by a long term member. He sold it on Tuesday. No heads up - I was out the ticket. Your word is your integrity. Not everyone follows that but I?m not everyone. I would rather lose a sale and still have my word.

As far as asking about price - I apparently can?t shop on this site because I would probably offend most of you who have posted. I?ll give you a perfect example: I was in the market for a Pacer a few years ago. Every seller of a refurbished plane that I spoke to seemed to think a Pacer is worth the cost of the plane plus the recover. I felt that if that was true then an unrestored plane is worth the price minus the cost of a recover. Those two theories are $10-15,000 apart in reality. Rather than waste a bunch of both of our times I finally just started asking ?how negotiable are you?? I have dealt with a bunch of sellers who start out asking for a complete return on their own investment. That?s usually a lot more than it?s worth. That?s why we often say ?buy the plane you want, don?t buy a fixer upper, because you?ll have more in it than it?s worth.? But let?s be honest, sellers rarely start off their asking price with that in mind.

If I have $50k to spend and you have a $60k asking price, rather than waste time why not ask if you are negotiable? I only have $50k - is there any possibility whatsoever? My experience is that VERY few items of any kind sell for the original asking price. But most buyers base their asking price on ?list? prices. I remember a few years ago someone on this site tried compiling a spreadsheet of actual sales prices on RVs and he got very little participation.
 
Yes I keep track. Here is a question for you. So let?s say you need some AN426-3-3.5 rivets. There are approximately 5618 rivets per pound and you buy 1/8 of a pound, or about 702. Of those, you use 56. Do you calculate the tax on those 56 rivets and add it to the aircraft price while putting the rest in ?inventory?? Or do you just add the total tax on all 702 rivets to the aircraft cost?

You will no doubt say that this is a trivial example, and it is, however, in a project the size of these aircraft, adding 12.5 times the tax to the aircraft value (total tax on 1/8 lb versus 56) can add a substantial amount of tax in the end. The other side of that coin is not adding anything which is fraud.

I think most folks estimate the value at the end of the build based on approximate values along the way...

Fair question (no example too trivial for me, but I'm notoriously meticulous (my wife would probably say "anal")). :)

I would note the entire sum spent on the rivet purchase for my records and submit that for tax at the appropriate time. I know that I'm shorting myself a bit, but I long ago decided to err on that side rather than guesstimating the other way.
 
So since we are talking buyers etiquette here, let me pass this example by you and tell me what you would do. This happened to me on the sale of my RV12 and I still feel bad about it.

Buyer one calls and is very interested in the airplane. We talk several times and after about a week, he makes plans to fly commercially into my home state to look over the airplane. He never talks about price with me and never offers to make a deposit and I didn?t ask for one either. Trip is planned for next week.

Next day, buyer two calls. I said I have someone interested and he?s coming in next week to look at the airplane. Buyer two offers me full price and is willing to wire me a $5k deposit and says he will be there tomorrow to inspect the airplane and sign the paperwork.

What do you do???

Here?s what I did. I let buyer two come inspect the airplane and closed the deal. I then called buyer one to tell him the airplane was sold. He was very upset and I felt bad (and still do). He was a really nice guy.

Here?s my reasoning. With no deposit, I had no way of knowing whether buyer one would show up or if he did, buy the airplane. However, if I would have asked for a deposit, buyer one probably would have sent me one. I?ve never been able to figure out if it was his fault for not putting a deposit down or my fault for not asking him for one.

Your thoughts?

I'd probably have told Buyer 2 that he's second in the queue and that I felt obligated to at least offer Buyer 1 the opportunity to match his offer. Then call Buyer 1 and describe the situation. If Buyer 1 will match the offer and immediately submit the same deposit, then the plane is his. If not, then thank him for his time and let Buyer 2 proceed.
 
My last 4 airplanes have all been purchased sight unseen. Most by asking what do you have to have for it?

When acting as a buyer, while I'll never ask the "what's the least you'll take for it" question, I always ask, in one form or another, "since nothing's perfect, what's wrong with it?" Sometimes I'll ask, were the owner to keep it, what are the next three things he'd be looking to address/fix.

Those questions nearly always elicit some honest conversation and help me to arrive at a fair (to me, anyway) offer.
 
As far as I sm concerned we had a deal, a verbal handshake. I am a person of my word, and I don't respect those that are not. I have been on the other side of the situation and turned down higher offers since I had already made a commitment.

I'm with you 100%. I had a similar situation about five years back where I'd accepted an offer from a friend for a very nice Colt Python and gave him a month to get the funds together. About halfway through that period, another guy offered me nearly 25% over the amount I'd agreed to accept from my friend and I initially told him that I needed to pass. My friend couldn't match the offer (no need for him to do so since we'd already agreed on a price) and wouldn't let me take the loss; he insisted that I sell it to the other guy. I did, but gave my friend a good-sized gift card to the Capital Grille in appreciation.
 
If I have $50k to spend and you have a $60k asking price, rather than waste time why not ask if you are negotiable? I only have $50k - is there any possibility whatsoever?

Sure, if you only have $50K, then be upfront, say exactly that, and ask if there's any possibility. I'd be fine with that as a seller. Simply asking, however, if a seller is negotiable (in the blind, as it were), is asking him to undercut himself without even an offer on the table. I'd tell that buyer that I don't play games or overstate my asking prices and that my bottom-line price is the advertised figure.
 
How about sellers etiquette, the person that sends old pictures , misrepresents overall condition, only to find out after spending travel time and money.
 
As a seller I would be ok with someone asking how how negotiable I am vs "What's your bottom dollar". Those are two entirely different questions in my mind. The first is just asking if the price is firm, then second is trying to make me negotiate against myself.
 
How about sellers etiquette, the person that sends old pictures , misrepresents overall condition, only to find out after spending travel time and money.

Don't even go there! :eek:

I've been in the position of trying to sell an airplane that's largely painted white in color. Of course in this part of the world we have snow, lots of snow. White airplanes don't show up well against a snow background. Plus winter light typically is pretty poor for photography unless one gets one of those fairly rare clear blue sky days where it's frigid but at least sunny.

I've had one potential buyer tell me that my pictures, taken late in the autumn, weren't current enough to merit him driving 1.5 hours to come see the airplane. Instead he wanted me to go to the hangar on a crappy, grey day, shovel the snow from in front of the hangar, haul the airplane out and take new pictures with the date emblazoned on them to satisfy his need for current photos. No thanks, life is too short for that.
 
I don?t have much experience selling aircraft however I have bought and sold a lot of sports cars as a hobby. I had one car that was perfect. 12,000 miles and not a scratch on it. Book value was a well established 28,000. I listed the car for 28,500 since it was a 1% car condition wise. First buyer showed up and did a long test drive which was a bit more aggressive than my liking. Told him it was time to head back to end it. He offered me 19,000 cash. I said no thanks. He said aren?t you going to make a counter offer. I said I had no counter to 19,000. He said you always counter so I said ok, 29,000. He said that?s ridiculous since I was asking 28,500. I said no more ridiculous than your offer goodbye.
Second buyer showed up, looked at the condition of the car and service records and wrote a check for 28,500 without even a test drive!
George
 
Tax

"Fair question (no example too trivial for me, but I'm notoriously meticulous (my wife would probably say "anal")).

I would note the entire sum spent on the rivet purchase for my records and submit that for tax at the appropriate time. I know that I'm shorting myself a bit, but I long ago decided to err on that side rather than guesstimating the other way."

Fair enough. I estimate because I have a virtual hardware store in my workshop; I use the AN hardware , etc. on other aircraft...including some other builders...you know, those guys working on their project on a Sunday and find that they are short a bolt or a few rivets...

Not to mention it is usually cheaper to buy, for example, a package of 100 washers or nuts. You get a discount and the shipping remains the same...
 
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