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Solo build?

Racer_Joe

I'm New Here
Has anyone or is it even possible to build a 9A without any assistance? I have built 100+mph racing go karts, custom motorcycles, and hot rods, my favorite being a '50 Chevy sedan delivery with a dual quad 409. I have done all of these without assistance but none of these involved bucking unreachable rivets. Would it be wrong to use blind rivets in such places? I can use hoists to move and position heavy items. Is it totally not possible or would it be the first?
 
Could it be done?

Racer Joe

My project is currently in the final throes of completion (maybe throes is too strong!), and I too have done frame off restorations and the like, with a lift in my shop and lots of experience doing heavy work alone. Usually alone by necessity, but I do enjoy taking on problems one on one when it comes to "therapeutic" pursuits.

Having said that, I drew the line at some rivets on the wings where structure alignment was of concern, and on the lower middle section where structural strength was a concern. A few other places needed a handful of rivets bucked or shot to save a lot of time.

I am convince you could build one of these completely solo on a deserted island. With enough effort, you could build bucking jigs and fixtures, and do it per plans.

But personally, my opinion is that you'd be missing some of the fun of the build doing it all yourself, but that's not your question.

And by the way, if you have a lift, you'll find it to be one of your favorite tools. Installing the engine, gear legs, tires, moving it onto dollies, and a thousand other options that are way outside the box but make your day.

Substituting pull rivets for solid rivets over much of the areas I mentioned would be a good question for a qualified engineer. And then what you would have is a one of a kind creation that is based on a professional opinion. Worthy of some serious thought first. Hope it works!
 
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HELP HELP not always needed

I've got an old school 1991 RV-6 in my hangar that I only had about an hour and half help on. Had somebody help buck the bottom rivets in the floor. I'm 6'4 with loooong arms so that may have helped.
Yes, I was on the racing circuit and a mechanic so a bunch skills follow the same path.
An RV-9 will be SOOOOO much easier than an old school RV
Enjoy the road. Art
 
Has anyone or is it even possible to build a 9A without any assistance? I have built 100+mph racing go karts, custom motorcycles, and hot rods, my favorite being a '50 Chevy sedan delivery with a dual quad 409. I have done all of these without assistance but none of these involved bucking unreachable rivets. Would it be wrong to use blind rivets in such places? I can use hoists to move and position heavy items. Is it totally not possible or would it be the first?
Welcome to VAF - totally doable, but why not share the fun with someone from time to time? Perhaps a neighborhood kid who needs a little direction? Since you are in Bastrop, just down the road in Austin, New Braunfels, and Lockhart you'll find lots of builders that I'm sure you could convince to swing by to give you a hand when needed. Most of the time solo building is fine - at least that was my experience for my RV-8 QB.
 
I’m solo 90% of the time, but there’s just some stuff that’s so much easier with two people. Not only riveting. When it came time to flip the canoe I’m sure I could have cobbled together some sling. Especially since I already have a lightweight hoist in the ceiling for a jeep hard top. I seriously considered it, but ended up waiting a day or so for a couple of friends over and it took like 3 minutes.

There are probably a couple hundred rivets so far that I needed either a bucking buddy or some contraption to make solo riveting work.

Even not considering the structural concerns of adding that many pull fasteners where they weren’t designed to go, I think your resale would take a hit. I know I’d think twice if I was looking at it and saw a bunch of pull rivets where I knew they weren’t originally designed
 
I built a 6 and a 10 by myself. There was the rare occassion that I needed a third arm, that I still can't seem to grow on demand :), or one of the kids to buck a few difficult to reach rivets. There are things like putting on the wings that definately takes 2-3 people, but I did 99%+ solo. Most of the helper requirements are for unskilled labor and most any neighbor can help.

Larry
 
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I'm building an RV-10. Approaching 1000 hours of work. I've had less than 10 hours of help - usually for moving something into position that I can't do solo (wing, cabin cover, etc).

I did have a couple of friends who have built many planes help out with mounting the engine. I borrowed their engine crane for the day, and they wanted to come along with it to help.

There are very, very few unreachable rivets. On the -10, joining the tailcone to the fuselage was the one place where I could not work with tools in hand, solo. I built a "backriveting stand" out of wood and carpenters shims that held the backriveting bar exactly in place. Each rivet took several minutes to adjust the stand for exactly the right height and location, but it worked fine.

Bottom line - as long as you are willing to engineer a solo solution for something from time to time, you can build these things 98% on your own.

I have had a number of visits to my hangar by mentors, EAA TCs, experienced builders / repairers, and an A&P I know. Their advice and sanity check has been incredibly helpful and I'm not counting any of that in the 10 hours above.

So, if you are going to build solo, by all means, do it solo. But make sure that you do have someone check your work from time to time.
 
Solo

I too am close to finishing. I would say 95% was done solo including hanging the engine.
I.have done a lot of automotive and furniture building so fixtures were not a new idea.
I drafted my Sweetie or friends to help with the wing skins and fuse rivets out of reach of my short arms. It was fun. I built one rig to rivet the fuse since no one was around. Took forever one rivet at a time but I got it done.
Find some local builder. I guarantee they will be happy to help. We are a close community.
Heck, I'll be in ATX for two weeks soon. If you need a hand, shoot me an e-mail.
 
Solo work

You could build an RV 12 by yourself for the most part. The only help you would need is fitting the rear empenage to the fuselage and fitting wings. Everything ellse is doable by yourself. But sometimes it is nice to have extra hands especially the stabilator two more bodies really helps.
 
The places where I needed assistance riveting were the top wing skins, the leading edge ribs to the spar (here you could use pull rivets per Van's), some of the floor skins on the center fuselage, and later things like antenna doublers and the final forward top fuselage skin. I would say I did 99% by myself. It isn't difficult to find a helper, teach them to use the rivet gun in less than 20 minutes and have them assist you. I had my kids (teens at that point) help me with riveting a few times, and also lifting/moving the fuselage at various points. It does help to have another builder around to do things like install the wings, hang the engine, etc. Especially, someone who has done it before.
 
You'll need a second set of hands for about 2-3 hours total on the entire airplane, or at least I did. I usually saved up a few items that required a second set of hands and when I had the opportunity - "Hey, you got a minute? I need a quick hand in the shop for a couple things."
 
Total Solo?
I am envious of those:
-who can reach all those rivet holes, buck & gun in each hand (long arms, ambidextrous).
-that can balance those big bulky and awkward assemblies without crashing them. (ballerina/weightlifter strength)
-those that can crawl into & get out of tight spots without getting stuck (like a snake)
-those who have the ultimate skills that don't need that extra set of eyes to QC your work.

Other than that, yes you can build solo but in actual practice you need a second set of hands/eyes only a small fraction of the build time.
 
128 rivets

I needed help with 128 rivets in my -9A. Most were in the bottom wing skins, more left than right due to less confidence and finger strength in my left hand. I have slow build wings and a quick build fuselage. I’m 5’ 11” and average span, about 190 lbs. tungsten bar helped a bunch in control. You just don’t ever want to drop it.
 
I needed help with 128 rivets in my -9A. Most were in the bottom wing skins, more left than right due to less confidence and finger strength in my left hand. I have slow build wings and a quick build fuselage. I’m 5’ 11” and average span, about 190 lbs. tungsten bar helped a bunch in control. You just don’t ever want to drop it.

When I first read this I read "about 190 lb tungsten bar" 🤣
 
Lanyard

And wing skins are ductile and expensive - don't drop them in there either!

Good tip! I made a lanyard for my tungsten bar. Saved several dents!:D

I know all too well about broken bones. Six so far. Last one was two at once. Tibia has a 12mm Titanium pin. Fibula didn't require it. ER Dr thought it was funny.
He said, "Tibia and Fibula are broken." I said the Fibula didn't hurt. He said, "Want me to make it hurt?" Gee thanks doc. They thought I was nuts cuz I wouldn't let them cut my new jeans or my snow boots. Bones heal. Hard to find a good pair of jeans and even harder to find a perfecf pair of snow boots! :D
That was back in 2015. Built the tanks with a broken leg.
 
Has anyone or is it even possible to build a 9A without any assistance? I have built 100+mph racing go karts, custom motorcycles, and hot rods, my favorite being a '50 Chevy sedan delivery with a dual quad 409. I have done all of these without assistance but none of these involved bucking unreachable rivets. Would it be wrong to use blind rivets in such places? I can use hoists to move and position heavy items. Is it totally not possible or would it be the first?

I personally know a builder who did 100% work solo on his 9. There are places he would do better with help that’s what he said. I completed 99.9 % myself the airframe is still holding together after 5K+ hours :)

Blueberry%20Run%20-%201%206.jpg
 
On the -10, joining the tailcone to the fuselage was the one place where I could not work with tools in hand, solo. I built a "backriveting stand" out of wood and carpenters shims that held the backriveting bar exactly in place. Each rivet took several minutes to adjust the stand for exactly the right height and location, but it worked fine.
I did exactly the same thing.
I believe I did the whole -10 QB solo, except I had my wife help with a half dozen firewall rivets where my arms were nowhere near long enough. Solo can add a lot of time, but also a certain amount of satisfaction.
 
Thanks

First of all, I want to say thanks for all of the replies. I have been monitoring this board for over a year and I am very impressed how responsive and helpful y'all are

Now my take away from your responses is that just about all of it can be done solo but there are a few places that assistance is just about required. And also having done woodworking I know that jig and fixture making makes hard tasks possible with precision, even though the time spent making the jig takes X-times long than the task itself.

I have not reached out to the local EAA, which i am a member, but if I get a fraction of the enthusiasm as I have gotten from here I'm sure a helping hand might be available.

Another thing I have discovered is that when I come up against something where assistance is absolutely required, and none is currently available, is to move on with another tasks, which there will be plenty, and accumulate several so when help is available they can all be knocked out at once since each usually doesn't take much time. My wife is actually quite handy and helpful, this question was more of a "can it be done" question because I am out in the shop by myself 99% of the time. I have also discovered that sometimes when I can't quite figure out how I'm going to do something having a second set of eyes look at it, even though it's usually me explaining the problem to them that I come up with the solution myself.

I would also like to thank Wirejock Larry for already volunteering to help. Thanks Larry but I don't have a kit yet, so I don't want to waste your time, but maybe in the future I might put out a request for help. And, Rjcthree Rick I am impressed that you kept track that there were 128 rivets that you needed help with. I can only imagine the details in your builders log.

One other thing that I have discovered monitoring this forum is that when a builder has a question or problem many builders have already been there and done that so multiple solutions and opinions are available to ponder.

Thanks again for all of your insights, opinions, and building experiences.
 
Most of the helper requirements are for unskilled labor and most any neighbor can help.

That's my experience so far building a -7, though admittedly I learned most of the skills building a -6 with my dad many years ago. Things like hanging wings are far easier with a couple of helpers, but don't take that long at all. I had some coworkers help out getting the wings on and off, and it only cost me about $20 in beer.

I've found that the required skills for riveting the few places that I can't reach myself (some parts of the wing skins, lower fuselage, and tailcone, so far) can be taught in a few minutes, assuming your helper can follow basic instructions. My wife has helped with the riveting; I've also had interns from work, my brother, and my sister-in-law drive a few. It's easier to have them run the rivet gun than buck, IMHO.

The only other place I really needed assistance was building my engine from parts; I had an A&P friend with Lycoming overhaul experience help me with that--though admittedly most people just buy an engine. I just had to be difficult ;)

In short, the "second person really required" time will be well under 1% of your total build effort. Don't give up on building just because you might need a second pair of hands for a couple hours.
 
Build by yourself

OK gang- I can't even imagine how to rivet wing skins by myself! PLEASE share your secrets. A picture of whatever you invented / concocted / bought to use as a jig for driving rivets alone would be educational. Have helped a few people build a few RV's so we always have folks around to help but I am really curious to she what some of you have come up with. Thanks- JC
 
Time and ingenuity vs. help

Maybe the RV-4 is different. Easily put wings into fuselage (and removed them) multiple times using cargo straps to pull them in with properly located supports under the wing.

Definitely easier with a bucking partner. But don't forget the back-riveting option. For example on bottom fuselage skins. But a lot of extra work or time having to get in and out to readjust fuselage and/or back-rivet plate support.

I probably had 2 hours help riveting "impossible" last wing skin rivets and rear fuselage top skin. Could probably have done those solo in 2 days to 2 weeks :)

Finn
 
OK gang- I can't even imagine how to rivet wing skins by myself! PLEASE share your secrets. A picture of whatever you invented / concocted / bought to use as a jig for driving rivets alone would be educational. Have helped a few people build a few RV's so we always have folks around to help but I am really curious to she what some of you have come up with. Thanks- JC

Should always be possible to position a bucking bar using wood and foam and/or rubber support. But again, make sure the bucking bar can't drop and ding the skin!

Engine hoist, adjustable height rotary jigs, homemade hoists or cranes...

But is time (and patience) easier to come by than help?

Finn
 
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