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RV loose in the wind

flightlogic

flightlogic

Well Known Member
Patron
We had some remarkable winds at the surface today and I made a tactical error. I chalked the mains and did not tie the plane down while out flying a heavier bird. The RV 9A was sitting in front of the hangar.
When I returned to the hangar in the C210, our little RV was turning lazy circles in front of the hangar. Does anyone know if most nosewheel RV's will **** the nosewheel when pushed by the wind. We don't know how many turns the plane had done while un-attended. The Antisplat gust lock shook itself loose also, leaving the rudder flapping around. I consider the whole event a lucky learning experience... since a steel pipe rail fence was nearby. I sure expected dents and dings when I saw it out of control. Killing the power to the Cessna and running for the loose kitplane was a sick feeling.
Live and learn I suppose. (I did not lose my composure... and I am practicing spelling loose and lose here today... pilots just cannot get that word right I notice.) Cheers....
 
Can you be more specific about the failure mode of the Antisplat gust lock? Was it related to not being tied down, or should this be a general concern?
 
At least the plane was not damaged.

You apparently don't need advice before you advise others, either.
 
flightlogic said:
We had some remarkable winds at the surface today and I made a tactical error. I chalked the mains and did not tie the plane down while out flying a heavier bird. The RV 9A was sitting in front of the hangar.
When I returned to the hangar in the C210, our little RV was turning lazy circles in front of the hangar. Does anyone know if most nosewheel RV's will **** the nosewheel when pushed by the wind. We don't know how many turns the plane had done while un-attended. The Antisplat gust lock shook itself loose also, leaving the rudder flapping around. I consider the whole event a lucky learning experience... since a steel pipe rail fence was nearby. I sure expected dents and dings when I saw it out of control. Killing the power to the Cessna and running for the loose kitplane was a sick feeling.
Live and learn I suppose. (I did not lose my composure... and I am practicing spelling loose and lose here today... pilots just cannot get that word right I notice.) Cheers....
Click to expand...

Have had a problem with the gust lock also. It's seems to work its way loose at times. I don't really trust it in the kind of winds we get in my area.
 
It was a confession.... not much confusion on that point.
On the subject of gust locks... I have noticed, of late... that my gust lock has taken a bit of a permanent bend. It does not push into place a tightly as when new. Been thinking of asking Alan if a new arm could be installed and keep the rest of the parts. The bend starts near where the holes are drilled through...
If I learn more, I will add it to the history thread for Antisplat gust locks.
Cheers... or cheerios.
 
My gust lock bent a little as well. I noticed the bend when I removed it as I was preflighting my departure from Oshkosh last year (arm wouldn't slide in like it used to). I took a picture planning on sending it to Alan but I haven't taken the time to send it yet. I adjusted it a bit to keep things good and tight and it is still doing a great job. It survived the nasty Saturday morning storm we had at Oshkosh last year so I'm very happy with it. :)

2015-07-27%2B09.52.28.jpg
 
That is about the same place my bend is starting. If Alan made a little retrofit kit with a piece of aluminum tubing (close tolerance) that could be driven down the original tube, it would be much stronger.
I might call him this week. He seems to always like a challenge.
BTW.... one of the vendors here sells some stainless steel threaded inserts to attach the tie down ropes. I have them on the plane... and still had a brain fart today and left it untied in the breeze. My wife should smack me...
 
flightlogic said:
If Alan made a little retrofit kit with a piece of aluminum tubing (close tolerance) that could be driven down the original tube, it would be much stronger. I might call him this week.
Click to expand...

Alan has known there were problems with the aluminum tube for quite some time. Mine broke in July of 2013 while the plane sat on the ramp at Maxwell for 2 weeks. IIRC, he told me the aluminum tube was selected for being a convenient size (the ID matches the OD of the steel tube). I ended up invoking his satisfaction guarantee and returning mine despite his insistence on troubleshooting(beta testing). I do not believe this product is durable enough for long-term use.

2013-07-22%2009.06.21.jpg
 
Gust lock on the tail

I drilled a hole in the rudder horn and rudder stop, then inserted an AN3 bolt that was bent to fit. Used a torch to heat before bending the bolt. Worked great, and weighs practically nothing!
 
Mine too

I also had a problem with mine. Left the plane tied down over night, winds were gusting to 25 kts. The gust lock stayed on but the bar bent quite a bit. Anti-Splat sent me a new bar but I have lost some confidence in the device. This gust lock is not cheap. I hope Alan designs a fix for us who have purchased this.
 
Practical limits

A stick block / lock can be made strong enough that the control surfaces, or pushrods and bellcranks will fail if the winds are high enough.

An aircraft can be tied down so secure that a wind can over stress the wing spars also. This has happened to numerous float planes in Alaska

At some point, the RV just needs to be inside. This is not a comment regarding any particular brand of gust lock.

Any kind of outside storage and tie down is a risk.
 
I like the Gust Buster system because it was designed to have built it "give". It uses bungee cords for that attach to the stick for the ailerons and elevators and push tubes with internal springs to for the rudder.

It's takes more effort to use it than some simpler systems but it's worth the effort if you are tied down in windy (or potentially windy) conditions.

If you do a search on VAF you will find more info on the product and a link to their website. I don't know if they are an advertiser here.
 
Rick_A said:
I like the Gust Buster system because it was designed to have built it "give". It uses bungee cords for that attach to the stick for the ailerons and elevators and push tubes with internal springs to for the rudder.

It's takes more effort to use it than some simpler systems but it's worth the effort if you are tied down in windy (or potentially windy) conditions.

If you do a search on VAF you will find more info on the product and a link to their website. I don't know if they are an advertiser here.
Click to expand...

+1! I sing the Gust Buster's praises to anyone who listens. I've owned it since owning my 7A, and I don't believe it can be beat.
 
Tooch said:
I also had a problem with mine. Left the plane tied down over night, winds were gusting to 25 kts. The gust lock stayed on but the bar bent quite a bit. Anti-Splat sent me a new bar but I have lost some confidence in the device. This gust lock is not cheap. I hope Alan designs a fix for us who have purchased this.
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm

Looks like a great business opportunity for someone.

They could call their product the Ultimate Gust Lock AntiBend.....:rolleyes:
 
Perhaps we all can learn from your "confession" ;) Your post is appreciated.
Must have been one heck of a wind to blow your airplane off the chocks, amazing. Glad to hear no damage was done.

On the subject of gust locks, I have been doing it the old fashioned way with a bit of a home made bungee set up.
After reviewing the Gust Buster site, I got off the fence and ordered one.
They actually show the engineering that went behind the product development. Not common in our "It's ok, its experimental. You can do whatever you want", supplier world.
 
i also use the gust buster on my rv10 and have no complaints. it takes a few minutes to put on but it works
Alan
N668G
 
For those locking the rudder with a bolt arrangement of some sort at the back.... Do you hang a big red flag on that to be seen during pre flight exam???

I remember a Luscombe I had. Made a rudder lock with scrap aluminum and bolt etc. Went around the pattern one day and landed. After tying it down... I found my rudder lock still in place. Bent a bit from the landing rollout. Suppose that means the winds were kind that day. After that, I had a big redl flag and a placard that was placed on the throttle... that had to be removed before flight. Could not believe I forgot to remove it that day. DUMB
 
Zuldarin said:
My gust lock bent a little as well. I noticed the bend when I removed it as I was preflighting my departure from Oshkosh last year (arm wouldn't slide in like it used to). I took a picture planning on sending it to Alan but I haven't taken the time to send it yet. I adjusted it a bit to keep things good and tight and it is still doing a great job. It survived the nasty Saturday morning storm we had at Oshkosh last year so I'm very happy with it. :)

2015-07-27%2B09.52.28.jpg
Click to expand...

Mine was bent shortly after I bought it, Allen took it back and fixed/replaced it and indicated that they are changing the holes in such a way that it won't weaken it.
 
Lionclaw said:
Alan has known there were problems with the aluminum tube for quite some time. Mine broke in July of 2013 while the plane sat on the ramp at Maxwell for 2 weeks. IIRC, he told me the aluminum tube was selected for being a convenient size (the ID matches the OD of the steel tube). I ended up invoking his satisfaction guarantee and returning mine despite his insistence on troubleshooting(beta testing). I do not believe this product is durable enough for long-term use.

2013-07-22%2009.06.21.jpg
Click to expand...

...We had a few of the very early units do this (Actually four that did this) but it made us aware that a problem was possible. We changed the hole location arrangement and eliminated the breaking problem. We also went to a stronger grade of aluminum on the red tube. We sent out new parts to everyone that purchased a gust lock from the first run at no charge. This unit can't shake loose if properly adjusted and is extremely strong. We are more than happy to help anyone that has a problem with one of our products to resolve it, just give us a call. If we can't solve the problem, we will happily refund your money. We have hundreds of "The Ultimate Gust Lock" out there in service and most are very very happy with this product. Thanks, Allan...:D
 
PerfTech said:
...We had a few of the very early units do this (Actually four that did this) but it made us aware that a problem was possible. We changed the hole location arrangement and eliminated the breaking problem. We also went to a stronger grade of aluminum on the red tube. We sent out new parts to everyone that purchased a gust lock from the first run at no charge. This unit can't shake loose if properly adjusted and is extremely strong. We are more than happy to help anyone that has a problem with one of our products to resolve it, just give us a call. If we can't solve the problem, we will happily refund your money. We have hundreds of "The Ultimate Gust Lock" out there in service and most are very very happy with this product. Thanks, Allan...:D
Click to expand...

I have one of the newer designs/replacement locks, but even that one got *slightly* bent somewhere along the line. Just enough to make sliding the two tubes together a bit "sticky" and requiring some twisting while inserting. I don't mind it (much), but it's clear there's still some room for improvement here...
 
Any chance a maple or oak dowel can be found in a diameter that will slip inside nice and snug? It would be easy to match drill the holes once inside. Perhaps a touch of epoxy to keep it in place.

Failing that a piece of solid 7075 or even 6061 would likely not bend, but would need to be cross drilled accurately. On the down side, it would also add considerable weight and there would be no cushion or flex for the control linkages.

I think I like the hardwood dowel on the inside. Lightweight and perhaps the right amount of flex.
 
I think what allowed mine to pop off the rudder pedals was flexing in the system. It was still locked tight... but when I got to the plane circling around in the high winds, I found the gust lock end fittings up at the center of the pedals.
A dowel that bent also might allow the same. I would take the weight penalty for a sturdier part in the design. Alan has responded now. I really was starting the thread about my stupidity leaving just chocks on the plane outside for an hour. It drifted a bit... but I suppose if it ends up saving bent metal in one way or another, it will have been positive. Thanks to all.... !!
 
flightlogic said:
I think what allowed mine to pop off the rudder pedals was flexing in the system. It was still locked tight... but when I got to the plane circling around in the high winds, I found the gust lock end fittings up at the center of the pedals. Alan has responded now. Thanks to all.... !!
Click to expand...

...Please contact me by phone so I can make sure this doesn't happen to you again. Thanks, Allan...:D
 
Allan, for those of us who are currently using your ASA gust lock - what is the fix? This hasn't happened to me but it's sure scary.
 
krw5927 said:
Allan, for those of us who are currently using your ASA gust lock - what is the fix? This hasn't happened to me but it's sure scary.
Click to expand...

...The red tube that was modified after the very first small run of our Gust-Locks (original has a vertical hole in the top, half way down for stowing). The new tubes will not break, as the hole was the problem that weakened it and allowed a place for a crack to start. The red tube bending is due to a heavy foot on installation. When installed, you can't bend it by pushing on the rudder or elevator no matter how hard you try. You would destroy the control surface first. Anyone with a bent tube, or one of the really early units, just give me a call and we will rush a new one out to you. When engaged properly on the rudder peddles, the gust lock can't disengage without moving up or down on the control stick. To move up it would require the grip to move up as well. To move down would require the gust-lock to get tighter as the geometry is against this it is almost impossible. If the control stick has been dramatically shortened or its neutral position is not to original plan it is possible it could move down. In this case all that would be required to remedy the situation, and assure movement will not take place is this. Install a tiny screw in the stick, about 1/4" below where the push pin of the gust-lock rests against the stick. This will stop any possibility of the unit moving on the control stick. If you have any questions just give me a call, I always enjoy talking to other RVers. Thanks, Allan...:D
 
Allan, thanks for the response. I appreciate the background info and knowing that my unit without the hole in the middle should be good to go!
 
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