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Radio Call - RV use in initial calls to controller / tower

Chairboy

I'm New Here
Hi guys,

When checking in with ATC, Center, Approach, etc, how do you identify your aircraft? Do you just say 'experimental N1234T' when checking in? Or do you give some other identifier?

If the controller says 'Say type aircraft', do you say 'Vans RV-6'? Or other?

Just something I've been wondering a few days. I haven't started building yet, I'm still in the feasibility/planning stage, and I've found answers to all my other questions so far, but haven't seen this one, which I guess means it's pretty silly....

Thanks!
 
Experimental

"Experimental 710Bravo Juliet" is what I use on the initial contact then "Experimental 0-Bravo-Juliet" I think that is the proper way to do it. When they break into some other ID usage, I am inclined to follow their lead. When I file a flight plan I have to identify the aircraft as "RV6" and the system will take it. If the briefer tries to enter RV6A the system will not take it. Most of the time the ATC personnel I communicate with use the "Experimental..." to communicate with me.

Bob Axsom
 
Up here in Canada I identify the aircraft as an RV-4 Whiskey Yankee Romeo and they do not question me about the type. I think they all know what an RV-4 is???
Cheers, Pete
 
Note, however, that it's in the AIM that it is only permissable to shorten your aircraft ID numbers if the controller does it first. If the controller continues to use your full call sign, then you must also.

The reason for that is that the controller may have another aircraft in his system that has a similar call sign (that you don't know about). If he has both a N204L and a N5304L in his system, there's going to be confusion if either of the two pilots of those aircraft shorten their own call signs to "04L".

Some of the best info I've seen about ATC communications is the entire series of articles by Don Brown at Avweb here at: http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182651-1.html

Starting with his very first column and working your way up to current is both entertaining and educating for any pilot.
For a short cut to specific ATC communications procedures, look on the right side of that page where the particular articles are listed. What's most fascinating is that you're getting the direct perspective of an ATC controller.
 
Identify

On our recent trip to S-N-F, from OKC, we were with Ft. Worth center for flight following. When handed off to Memphis center, we contacted them with "Memphis center, RV159MA" center replied several times, "say again". We finally replied with "experimental, 159MA". Controller was extremely nice & cordial and came back with "FYI, when calling in, it might be best to call in with experimental, 159MA." He told us initially, it sounded like we were saying Army, 159MA. :)

Marshall Alexander
RV10
Wings
 
Also, remember that per the FARs, experimental aircraft should identify themselves as such on initial contact to ATC, so (technically), simply identifying yourself has 'RV' would not suffice....although one could argue that since ALL RVs are experimental this wouldn't matter.
 
Most (not all) of the RV pilots I have heard on the radio identify themselves as "Experimental XXX". Isn't the whole reason for identifying your aircraft for ATC is so they have an idea of your speed, or at least your speed capability, for sequencing purposes? If I identify as a Skyhawk or Skylane, they know how fast I'm capable of flying, and how long it should take me to get somewhere. I would think that identifying yourself as "Experimental" could mean anything from a maximum speed of 80 kts to 200+ kts, depending on the 'brand' of experimental plane you are flying. So I would think using "Experimental" as your ID wouldn't mean enough to a controller for them to do their job. Unless of course you identify yourself as "RV" after "Experimental", or if asked again by the controller. Just my 2 cents' worth.
 
As soon as you identify yourself to ATC and they have you on radar, they know how fast you're going so that may not be that big an issue.

I only wish that some word could be officially designated by the FAA to be used in place of "Experimental" in the call sign. Not to pick nits, but that's five whole syllables that would be nice to have shortened to something more abbreviated.

I don't care what the word is. The FAA can make up a whole new word not even in the dictionary (if they want) and declare it to be a replacement for Experimental in communications.
As long as it's just one or two syllables, that would be nice. And as long as it's easy to understand, even it it sounds silly. Offered as an example and what comes immediately to my fertile mind might be something like "Chunk", as in "Chunk 72 Victor Lima".
It's sounds kind of silly at first, but it's easy to understand and almost impossible to MISunderstand, and it's only one syllable. If the FAA were to publish that single syllable word as being a direct replacement for the word Experimental (for radio communications only), comm use would end up being exactly 4 syllables easier.

My 1/5 cents worth.
 
Consider the context

For position reports or talking to the tower at the local GA airport, I usually say "RV 883TT", because its more descriptive in that context and there's enough RV's flying around that people usually know what you're saying in that context.

If I need to talk to ATC for flight following, I say "Expermental 883TT" because "RV sounds like "ARMY" to those guys. Problem is, then they have to ask your speed and they usually act like they don't believe you when you tell them you're making 170 knots.

With so many RV's flying around these days, I wish we had a standard. "Vans" would probably be better than "RV".
 
Callsigns

Back for the twenty-some years I was a Grumman owner/pilot, there was a regular (almost annual) debate on what to call ourselves on the radio. Grumman, Yankee, American, Tiger, Traveler....no one could ever agree, but I always called myself a Grumman, and ATC always understood!

With the explosive growth of homebuilts (and a whole lot of them RV's...), it is becoming interesting in the pattern at a lot of airports. Everyone calls themselves an "Experimental", but you don't know if you are about to run over a Breezy - or get run over by a Lancair! I am still calling myself "Experimental 188PD" on the radio, but was wondering if folks have started to call themselves RV's instead. Since I haven't really started flying "in the system" with the new RV yet (still practicing with all the nice goodies in the VFR environment), I haven't had to have this discussion with ATC yet.

I though this thread might start a little healthy discussion - what do people call themselevs - and as importantly, how does it play with ATC?

Paul
 
Good thought, Paul.

At our aiport there are approaching two dozen RVs on field, and many (most) times we are in the air in formation. Our CTAF calls usually go like...."NW Regional, 617AR, flight of 4 RVs, 5 mile initial runway 17."

When calling ATC solo I personally use 'Experimental 617AR'.

When solo and the CTAF pattern is busy I tend to stick with Experimental 617AR. When I have the field to myself I might just throw out 'NW Regional, RV on downwind'...if I say anything at all.

Never really thought about it until now. Interesting how many variations I use.

Best,
 
Paul,

I've been using "RV" for two years, at least when talking to traffic. When dealing with ATC, I have typically used "Experimental", but on several occasions ATC came back with "November". So sometimes I check in with "November 917TB". I've also checked in with "Experimental RV 917TB". From my experience, most controllers know what an RV is or have heard of it, so if you check in with "RV" you probably won't get any complaints.'

Tobin
 
Ironflight said:
]
With the explosive growth of homebuilts (and a whole lot of them RV's...), it is becoming interesting in the pattern at a lot of airports. Everyone calls themselves an "Experimental", but you don't know if you are about to run over a Breezy - or get run over by a Lancair! I am still calling myself "Experimental 188PD" on the radio, but was wondering if folks have started to call themselves RV's instead. ]I though this thread might start a little healthy discussion - what do people call themselevs - and as importantly, how does it play with ATC?Paul
May past, I took my transition training with Ben Johnson in Mesquite TX. (and met our famous Doug Reeves at a fly-in during the process). Anyway I quickly noted that Ben and many other pilots on the radio announced themselves as "RV such and such". When I quizzed Ben about using the more technically correct "experimental" instead, he simply shrugged his shoulders and said right or wrong, no controller in any part of the country he's visited has ever challenged the terminology. Still, I like to say "Experimental" on the radio. To this new RV pilot, it sure sounds better than a ubiquitous call sign starting with "Cessna"!

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
 
Call Signs

This is an interesting discussion. The AIM has very specific guidance in section 4-2-4 (A) 3

"Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.

EXAMPLE-
1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.

2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit "Experimental" after initial contact).

4. Air Taxi or other commercial operators not having FAA authorized call signs should prefix their normal identification with the phonetic word "Tango."

EXAMPLE-
Tango Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha"

Most of the time I hear "Experimental five five five golf." One pilot I know uses "Glasair 12345 Experimantal" on initial contact, then deletes the experimental on subsequent calls. I think that is what the AIM suggests. It is what I intend to use.

I liked the military way of issuing call signs with the mission. Typically that was a single syllable word and 2 numbers. An example is "Klong 24". Too bad we cannot select our own. If we could, I would always be "Zero one Bravo", it just rolls off the tongue well
 
I always start an ATC call as Experimental 468AC, then after i call RV 468AC or just 468AC depending on how the ATC controller calls back. Most of the time i found ATC whats to know make and model if you call just Experimental 468AC.

;) Even better I've been asked to slow down on approch to a couple of airports after telling them i'm in a RV.
 
FARs and your operating limitations specifically state that when operating into or out of an airport with an operational control tower, you shall notify ATC of the experimental nature of your aircraft. After the initial callup, you may drop the "experimental". At uncontrolled airports the "experimental" is not required. I personally use "White RV" and sometimes add the N number. If I am going into an unfamiliar controlled airport, I will usually say "Experimental RV 168TX." This informs him of the experimental nature and he then knows what speeds to be looking for.
Mel...DAR
 
I agree that the Regs, AIM, and Operating Limitations say that you have to use "Experimental" in at least your initial callup. I guess that is why I've been using it on CTAF calls - and also shortening things up to "8PD" on subsequent calls. I like the the idea of calling in as "Experimental RV", as that gives everyone notice of what you are. And I have no problem leaving it up to ATC as to what they want to call me after the initial (well, I know a couple of controllers who might have things to call me....).

I'm kinda thinking that in the pattern at an uncontrolled field, "RV 8PD" after the intial call sounds pretty good, and informative. (Mel has it right though - who cares what your number is - a description is a lot more useful!)

Paul
 
callsigns

This is a great discussion, here in the Michigan area that I most often fly in I use Experimental RV N821BF(821 is our anniversary,B is for Becky, my better half and co-builder, and F for Frank). Most controllers come back with 1BF and then ask what model RV I have. 1BF we are a 9A, ATC - just got to get one of those some day!
Frank
 
Call signs

On first contact with atc I use experimental per my operating limitations, and then never say it again. From then on it is RV niner four whiskey.

On the lighter side of the topic: About a month after finishing my phase one Sherri and I went to Harris Ranch in the CA central valley for lunch after an open post by the So CA group stating everybody welcome. During lunch Rosie shared this little bit of radio etiquette for RV's. He told me that there are thousands of us in the air now and that controllers are aware of us. Then in good fun they started to make fun of the way I called out experimental at each leg of my pattern. We all had a pretty good laugh at the stiffness of my radio work and the future was set in stone for me right then and there. The way it seemed was that calling experimental all the time was like having something in your nose or toilet paper hanging out of the back of your pants.Your friends will laugh about it but also let you know so you can remedy the problem. It may not seem like it right away, but soon you will be amused by this also. I don't know how it happened, or when, but Now having RV tenure I too find this very amusing.

Blue Skies,
Bryan 9A (Experimental 994W) :D
 
Mel said:
FARs and your operating limitations specifically state that when operating into or out of an airport with an operational control tower, you shall notify ATC of the experimental nature of your aircraft. After the initial callup, you may drop the "experimental". At uncontrolled airports the "experimental" is not required. I personally use "White RV" and sometimes add the N number. If I am going into an unfamiliar controlled airport, I will usually say "Experimental RV 168TX." This informs him of the experimental nature and he then knows what speeds to be looking for.
Mel...DAR

On the first call, I use RV 157GS EXPERIMENTAL then drop the Experimental from there on out. As Mel says, the OpLims say to advise of the "experimenal nature" of the aircraft on the intial call.

Gary A. Sobek
N157GS RV-6, SoCAL
Flying 1,829 hours.
EAA TC
DAR
 
Ah, Bryan...you're letting the entire RV community in on my secret....Guilty of a FAR violation: I don't use Experimental going in/out of controlled airports nor do I use it going in/out of uncontrolled airports. I'm an RV (sometimes ARMY :) as spelled out in the approved designator/contraction list

Yes, my Op Lims say "Inform ATC blah, blah..." but I've never been questioned or reprimanded for not using it. When it's a busy radio environment, RV is easier (and quicker) to say than experimental.

The only time I use EX-PER-I-MEN-TAL (all 5 syllables of it) is when requesting VFR flight following and then only after they decide they'll take me into the system:

[Me] Approach (or Center), RV 628PV VFR request.
[Them] RV 628PV UNABLE or RV 628PV say request.
[Me] 628PV is an experimental ROMEO VICTOR SIX SLANT UNIFORM...

Also, if ATC ever states "Say type", I say "experimental ROMEO VICTOR SIX SLANT UNIFORM"

And for my lighter side, Joshua Approach hears from me so much that their response to my initial call to them is usually "Where ya' goin' today 8PV?"

I wish a safe and Happy New Year to my RV family of friends! Rosie
 
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Call sign

In an non towered airport the type is more important than a N#.

If you are an experimental, let the other pilots know what to look for.RV? Cub? Breezy? ultralight?

"White RV" works for me.
 
I used to use "rv 686ms" on the call, but like Rosie, I often get a reply back "Army turn heading ..." so I ditched that and now use "RV November 686ms".

Lately I have been getting some very cool responses. Thursday night, I took off on my first Night IFR flight in my new RV and once in cruise I got, " RV 7MS, confirm your doing 200 kts?!" ... " Ahhhh yep. Do you need me to to pick it up a few more?" " Then we got in this long conversation on Atl departure freq about the plane and so forth. :D It was funny. But I do now have to be careful with ATC since Im running about 50kts faster than the average RV guy.

Best
 
On initial callup to ATC I use "Experimental 311SV, an RV-4..." 99% of the time ATC will come back and call me "RV 1SV" Most of 'em seem to know what an RV is.
 
Radio Calls / 'RV' use in inital callup to controller

I couldn't find a good forum for this, but I think it is important enough to post anyway.

Unfortunately I won't be able to make it to LOE this year, but if I was able to go, there is one aspect of it where I would just have to grit my teeth. That would be listening to all the aircraft on the CTAF calling themselves experimentals. I really don't care what type airworthiness certificate you have. What I care about in an airport environment is what your aircraft type is. That tells me what you look like, so I have a chance of recognizing you and it tells me your general speed, so I have a chance of knowing if there will be a conflict or not. An experimental may be a Breezy or it may be an F86, so calling yourself experimental is not of much help at all to the others around.

Folks, the only time we have to say anything about experimental is when we are talking to a control tower. We have to advise them of that, but we don't need to use it on every call. If you consult the AIM you will see that all the radio communications examples, for our type of flying, use the aircraft TYPE followed by the N number.

I would think the initial call to a tower should be along the lines of xx tower, this is experimental RV, N441LP. And all other calls should be from RV 441LP or RV 1LP, if ATC so abbreviates first.

If we are not talking to a tower I don't see why the word experimental should ever pass over our gums.

Does anyone disagree? Please explain why. What do those of you working in ATC think? It seems to me that center or towers generally have to pry the aircraft type out of us anyway, to use for traffic advisories, and to know what performance aircraft they are dealing with.

Now that the AIM has dealt with the terribly bad habit so many professional pilots have gotten into of using "Other traffic in the area please advise," this is the last remaining big pet peeve, of mine, about aircraft communications.
 
We had this discussion the other day

Hangar talk moved to what should we call ourselves in the pattern. I agree that RV 99PZ is better than experimental 99PZ. What I use is Anywhere USA traffic, Experimental 99PZ a flight of two RV's is 5 miles.........

From then on I try and use RV 99PZ
 
There's alot of spam can drivers that have NO idea what an RV is (other than the road type) ... experimental at lease gives them pause to look for us. I've also had ATC ask me what an RV is ... when i replay experimental N468AC then they seam happier. IMHO experimental RV N468AC is the best of both worlds.
 
Use the AIM....

Gary ... you could use what the FAA recommends in the AIM...

Quote from 4-2-4. Aircraft Call Signs in Chapter 4....

Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit "Experimental" after initial contact).


Which would be "RV niner niner Popa Zulu Experimental"

The full chapter on radio communications is here....

http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0402.html

This is a sort of combination of the suggestions above..... :) ...and I agree with Larry above that just keeping it the same (i.e., not dropping the "experimental" bit) just makes it more consistent and easier to remember...

gil in Tucson ... operating out of a MULTICOM field....
 
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AAAAAAAnd

Good one, N51P, whoever you are. "Experimental blah, blah" is utterly useless. What pops to mind everytime I hear it is that the pilot just isn't thinking. Saying the type really helps. If listeners don't know what an RV is, at least they know a lot of types it isn't. As I recall, the AIM requires notification of "experimental" with initial contact to approach or tower (and I would think tower is obviated if you've already talked to approach and are handed off).

Here I go, up on the soap box...

"AAAAAnd, blah, blah, blah." STOP IT!!! Initiating transmissions with a drawn out "And" is equivalent to "duh". Kindly engage brain before keying.

My last beef is triggered by in-the-blind position reports, usually on 122.9 in the backcountry, but it could be anywhere. Please don't begin your report with "Area traffic, blah, blah..." (or worse: "Aaaand, area traffic....). Everyone within range (maybe a 100 mile radius?) has to listen to you until you state your location. Please start with your location so if it's no factor we can devote our attention to more nearby matters.

Ah, I feel so much better.

John Siebold
Boise, ID
 
Announcing...

RV7ator said:
My last beef is triggered by in-the-blind position reports, usually on 122.9 in the backcountry, but it could be anywhere. Please don't begin your report with "Area traffic, blah, blah..." (or worse: "Aaaand, area traffic....). Everyone within range (maybe a 100 mile radius?) has to listen to you until you state your location. Please start with your location so if it's no factor we can devote our attention to more nearby matters.

Ah, I feel so much better.

John Siebold
Boise, ID

John .. my local instructor suggested the following....

"La Cholla Traffic .... N12GA is xxxxxxx, La Cholla Traffic"

She said adding the airport/location at the end helps folks who were not paying attention at the beginning of the transmission.... :)

We use 122.9 Multicom, along with several other S. Arizona airports, and we are not exactly out in the backcountry here - though some bits of the backcountry empty desert are not far away... :)

And yes... we can hear Phoenix airports on 122.9 almost 100 miles away.

gil in Tucson ... a metro area of 1 million people.... :)
 
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az_gila said:
Gary ... you could use what the FAA recommends in the AIM...

Quote from 4-2-4. Aircraft Call Signs in Chapter 4....

Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit "Experimental" after initial contact).
...

I looked at the AIM before I posted but my older copy didn't seem to have this. I think what the AIM suggests is great and I hope more of us do that or something similar.

Sure not everyone knows what an RV is but most do, and it least gives someone a chance to know. Experimental conveys pretty much no information.
 
Where is that?

And my pet peeve is aircraft that report over local landmarks, and I have no idea where they are because I am not a local!

(d) Report approximately 10 miles from the airport, reporting altitude, and state your aircraft type, aircraft identification, location relative to the airport, state whether landing or overflight, and request wind information and runway in use.
 
Jeff, I disagree. Type is important. RVs and Citations change location much quicker than Cubs. Knowing types aids setting up pattern entries, figuring closure speeds, etc.

Jeff, I agree. I've dropped the N-number, also. It's useless except to ATC, unless some other factor for the moment demands added clarification, or informing your pals that "you're on".

This leads into something I forgot to write about those "Area traffic..." reports. Don't broadcast to the world that you're lost by including "..about..". Just how big a plus/minus tolerance must I apply to your lost condition to set my scan range? What's your tolerance on "about"? One mile, ten miles...? (Knowing type impacts tolerancing, BTW.) Figure it out and say particulars.

Boy, am I full of good advice. I just found out that my 172 isn't actually radiating my positional wisdom, even though the little "T" shows up on the intercom and radio when keying the mic. I concede that "area, about, and N" are superior to the instance when you think you're oh-so-concise but really mute. :rolleyes:

John Siebold
 
RV7ator said:
Jeff, I disagree. Type is important.

You're right. I meant that type, as in Cessna vs. Cherokee is not important, since they all look the same at 3+ miles. If you're exceptionally fast/slow, than by all means let everyone know what you are.

Having settled that, anyone want to take a stab at "any traffic in the area, please advise..."
 
Any traffic in the area please advise.

TOTALLY WASTED AIR TIME!!!!!!
Sorry. Didn't mean to shout.
 
Mel said:
TOTALLY WASTED AIR TIME!!!!!!
Sorry. Didn't mean to shout.

I kinda have to disagree with you Mel. It is much worse than wasted air time. I have actually heard people say this going into a fly-in where there were 15 airplanes in the area. What if they actually did it? SQUEAL SCREACH, SQUEAL! And that is if they actually want to obey the self appointed air traffic controller.
 
I'll chip in....

Having a nice little flying vacation this week...

The other day, as I was leaving my local field, someone calls in "over the High School"....real helpful - except that there are two High Schools, equal distance from the field, in exactly opposite directions....

The other problem we have is that in our area, most of the runways run Northwest/Southeast, but people seem to want to call "South of the field" when they are off the southeast end. Hey, I'd rather that you didn't call a position AT ALL if you are going to have me (and everyone else) looking in the wrong place!

I also concur completely on the "Any Traffic in the area...." calls. I heard that start about ten or fifteen years ago, and always wonder why I am expected to be listening, but the person making the call isn't....

Not intending to offend, just throwng out thoughts at the end of the day....

Paul
 
yes, no more, please

Yes, please, no more: "Any traffic in the area, please advise..." If the other aircraft are listening, they will advise without being requested. If the other aircraft aren't listening, then it obviously does no good to make the request.

A much more serious problem is the congenial, lengthy chit-chat on the Unicom/Multicom frequency when approaching a busy fly-in like LOE--that should be kept to the air-to-air frequencies.
 
Ironflight said:
Having a nice little flying vacation this week...

The other day, as I was leaving my local field, someone calls in "over the High School"....real helpful - except that there are two High Schools, equal distance from the field, in exactly opposite directions....

Huzzah, Paul...talk about one of my pet peeves.

What got me on my own little personal tirade was a United Airlines (I think it was United, anyhow....maybe Delta) flight I took last year. I decided to tune in the cockpit chatter in my headphones. I'm now accustomed to hearing the sloppy, "hollywood cool", mumbling Captains and First Officers seem to get away with (and the sloppy, garbled responses ATC sends back) so I normally think nothing of it. My ear's tuned to it now, as I'm sure most of yours are too!

Then on comes MY captain. Crystal clear, by the book, comfortably slow, precise and pleasant. What a difference!!! ATC shaped up when responding to him as well. The communication between this guy and ATC was clear, precise and effecient with no chance of misunderstanding and no wasted flyboy-isms.

Ever since, I've strived to make my communications mimic his. No more "over the high school"'s or other localisms (unless they actually show up on a sectional or vfr chart ). Just clear, to the point and accurate radio work.

And yes, I agree: "Peapatch traffic, white RV, right base", is way better than an N number, or even a model number. With all the fires going on over the hill from where I live, they've had tankers flying out of my local field for a couple of weeks now (KWJF). My first time out with those guys, I was told "82Y, you're number 2 behind a P2, 15 West, extend downwind". I had no idea what a P2, was. After a minute or so, I told him "I have a multi insight, big son of a gun, roughly 10 miles west. Is that a P2??". It was a water tanker....did you know that? Me neither.

For the rest of the weekend, they would refer to them as "tankers" instead. Not nearly as cool as P2, but we all knew what a tanker looked like, at least.
 
Good point

n5lp said:
I couldn't find a good forum for this, but I think it is important enough to post anyway.

Unfortunately I won't be able to make it to LOE this year, but if I was able to go, there is one aspect of it where I would just have to grit my teeth. That would be listening to all the aircraft on the CTAF calling themselves experimentals. I really don't care what type airworthiness certificate you have. What I care about in an airport environment is what your aircraft type is. That tells me what you look like, so I have a chance of recognizing you and it tells me your general speed, so I have a chance of knowing if there will be a conflict or not. An experimental may be a Breezy or it may be an F86, so calling yourself experimental is not of much help at all to the others around.

Folks, the only time we have to say anything about experimental is when we are talking to a control tower. We have to advise them of that, but we don't need to use it on every call. If you consult the AIM you will see that all the radio communications examples, for our type of flying, use the aircraft TYPE followed by the N number.

I would think the initial call to a tower should be along the lines of xx tower, this is experimental RV, N441LP. And all other calls should be from RV 441LP or RV 1LP, if ATC so abbreviates first.

If we are not talking to a tower I don't see why the word experimental should ever pass over our gums.

Does anyone disagree? Please explain why. What do those of you working in ATC think? It seems to me that center or towers generally have to pry the aircraft type out of us anyway, to use for traffic advisories, and to know what performance aircraft they are dealing with.

Now that the AIM has dealt with the terribly bad habit so many professional pilots have gotten into of using "Other traffic in the area please advise," this is the last remaining big pet peeve, of mine, about aircraft communications.
YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT.

Every one hear that, say experimental once and N441LP, Larry Pardue is going to get mad! :D I am kidding, it's a good point, really.

Experimental is overused. I would say one thing when I hear experimental, I do think, faster smaller plane; I hear Cessna or Piper, I think slower and bigger target, which may NOT always be a good assumption, but saying experimental is not totally useless. If you say it on CTAF, who cares, just don't repeat it over and over.

You make a good point about what's useful, what it looks like; how can you identify it (high/low/Bi wing, twin). How fast is it? In general most people know what a "R-Veee" is, however I may say RV, white and blue low wing, N1234, downwind midfield, centervill. Just be careful they don't call it uncontrolled for nothing.

I remember going into a tower field many years ago and said "experimental", leaving off the type. The tower jockey was down right nasty about it, "I don't care if your experimental, what kind of plane is it!". I laughed. After that I don't think I said experimental for years. :D

Just be careful, but thanks for the hint, I admit I say experiential too much. We should all try to do better. Good tip. Thanks
 
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I have been using what Gil and the AIM recommends for the past 9 years. I advise all the aircraft that I do the initial certification on the same.

I agree that it is totally unncessary to ask to advise of traffic in the area. If I hear someone calling, I also report my positioin without being asked.

A sample radio call: "Cable Traffic, RV 157GS Experimental, three north over the dam for left crosswind 24 Cable." Next call: "RV 7GS left crosswind over 6 for downwind 24 Cable."

Been also know to depart downwind and call Class C tower like this. "Cable traffic, RV 7GS turning left downwind 24 frequency change ONT tower Cable Traffic." "Good day Ontario Tower, RV 157GS Experimental off Cable VFR request." When they call me back, I give them PATER (Positon, Altitude, Type, Equipment, and request) RV 157GS off Cable, 2,500, Romero Vicotr six slash Golf, transition mid field 2,500 for Chinio with info Alpha." Typically I hear RV 7GS squawk 4xxx. Transition approved. Thanks for the complete callup."

I agree with Gil and the AIM. Type, Number, Experimental on the inital call. After the intial call, drop the EXPERIMANTAL. Check you operating limitations. It should say that Experimental is only needed on the inital call. In a busy environment, see what Jeff says on adding color. " 'Airport name' Traffic, 'Color of your RV' left downwind for RWY XX 'Airport name' ."

Flying N157GS, 9-years, 1,952 hours.
EAA TC
FAA A&P
FAA DAR
 
Amen Larry!

Ah, talking on the radio... something that I am VERY well-versed in... Good call here Larry! This thread could go on and on so I want to get this in early regardless of what follows...

Our RV-6A now has 2453 hours TT. We've flown many cross-country hours all over this US of A including talking with airport towers, approach, center, everybody :D

Victoria and I have received clearance to fly through nearly EVERY Class B airspace in America and uncountable Class C airspace during the last 6 years. I use flight following 100% of the time, even in my local area for help with traffic separation (we live near Edwards AFB).

The only time I EVER use 'Experimental' is when I am requesting flight following or center (or approach or tower) asks me to 'Say Type Aircraft';

"N628PV is an Experimental, RV6 slant uniform, 12 miles north of Burbank..."

We have NEVER been questioned, reprimanded or anything else otherwise, on our lack of using the word 'Experimental' for all-other radio calls.

So I agree 100% with Larry. People can continue to quote chapter & verse but I'm sharing with you, real-world, first-hand experience that works :D Rosie
 
One other little thing that hasn't been mentioned; the requirement use the word experimental is only when "OPERATING INTO OR OUT OF AN AIRPORT WITH OPERATING CONTROL TOWER". It is not required when transitioning airspace.
 
"Army" 883TT

Anybody else have trouble with ATC hearing "Army" when you say "RVee"?

Maybe it's my Okie accent.

Any more, when I'm talking to ATC, I just say "Experimental" and make them ask me what I'm flying. "Experimental RV ('Army') " really throws them. I tried "Vans" for a while, but that didn't ring a bell and they had to ask my capabilities anyway.

At uncontrolled fields everyone seems to know what an "RV" is, so adding "Expermental" seems like a waste of airtime.

It would be nice if all aircraft names were standardized in the AIM.
 
Anybody else had a controller ask "What type of RV?" (as in RV6, RV8, etc.) I thought that one was a little strange. Not out of curiosity either, it was an "official" sounding request on initial contact.
 
CraigH@KRPH said:
Anybody else had a controller ask "What type of RV?" (as in RV6, RV8, etc.) I thought that one was a little strange. Not out of curiosity either, it was an "official" sounding request on initial contact.

Not only that, but I had an approach controller ask me if I was a -6 or a -6A. I had identified myself as a -6 for simplicity, even though I am a -6A.

Do they verify type vs. N number, or was he just curious?

Ben Beaird
Plymouth, WI
-6A
 
Ben Beaird said:
Not only that, but I had an approach controller ask me if I was a -6 or a -6A. I had identified myself as a -6 for simplicity, even though I am a -6A.

Do they verify type vs. N number, or was he just curious?

Ben Beaird
Plymouth, WI
-6A
D-6 as in "Dash Six"?

800px-Twin_Otter_7a_1996-07-29.jpg


May be you might want to Not say dash 6? :D -OR- You might hear tower go "Little single engine plane on final to runway 29 GO AROUND we have a large twin on final cleared to land...." :rolleyes: Guess what? There are
DHC-7's (Dash 7)
800px-IMG_0686-dash-7.jpg

and
Dash 8's
DeHavillandDHC-8-102-06.jpg


May be the "Dash 6", dash 7 and dash 8 be left to the De Havilland's. :p
 
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