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How Often....

Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
How often do you get to fly an RV, a J-3…and a Spitfire in the same day? (Well, not a REAL Spitfire, but an airplane that is a 90% scale version, true to the original in looks and aerodynamics - and equipped with a 430 HP V-8 engine….that’s probably as close as I am ever going to get to the real thing!)

The Spitfire stares down the RV-8…..
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I flew up to Cisco, Texas last Thursday night in the RV-8 (what a great way to travel on “business” – even stopped in College Station for dinner with Louise) so as to be in position to do a test flight in the Supermarine Aircraft Mk26B Spitfire for a future magazine article. I tried to remember the last time I flew a single-engined tail dragger with that much horsepower, and then realized the answer was easy….oh yeah – never. I am not a huge fan of auto engine conversions in general, but I am not so prejudiced that I won’t look at them if they are appropriate – and if you want to build a Spitfire (or Mustang) replica, you pretty much have to use a V-8 if the nose is going to look right. It was a fun airplane to fly, but a bit busy with retracts and an electric prop that had to be operated manually (They hadn’t sorted out the automatic system yet). One of the nice things about the RV’s is the ability to go fast without the mechanical and operational complexity of retracts. But flying a Spitfire with the gear sticking out? Sorry…some things just shouldn’t be done!

Look Ma….no glass!
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After a nice evaluation flight before the winds came up, I climbed back in the Valkyrie for a short trip to Fort Worth to check on our little one in the paint shop. The usual gang of miscreants was hanging out at 52F of course, so we traded lies over cheeseburgers and they convinced me (didn’t take much convincing to be honest….) to take Doug’s new (to him) J-3 around the patch a few times. It seemed like I was the only one to have much experience in the 65 HP model, and they wanted to know if I thought it was performing up to par. I’ve got about 500 hours in type, spread over close to forty years, and it sure was fun to crawl back into the rear seat and shoot a couple of landings. Cubs are such great creatures – landing one is sort of like walking, once you have figured them out – I love looking out the open door at the right wheel as it touches down. It’s such simple flying.

Doug traded the “Coral” scooter for this!
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Back in the Valkyrie once again, I cruised for home at 9,500’, thinking about how the RV enables such a great day of aviating. Texas is a big state, but these airplanes sure can shrink time and distance. Bouncing imaginary Messerchmitts in the morning, bopping on and off the grass in a Cub at lunch, and cruising high above the heat and bumps with the autopilot on and the Eagles on the XM in the afternoon – RV’s can definitely improve your life….

Paul
 
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Tough job, seems you are up to it!;)

Well, it took most of my brain cells to remember how to operate that Australian-designed undercarriage....two switches, six lights, and two levers....for the TWO main landing gear! Oh yeah, there was a circuit breaker in there somewhere too....no wonder the empire fell....;):p
 
You mean British design?

As far as I am aware the Aussie that builds the replicas only copied the original British design. On the earliest Spits they had to swap hands on the stick and then manually pump the under cart up.
 
Cisco...

We went by there a few weeks ago while hauling motorcycles to Junction for a ride. The bloke-Mike-who runs things is as passionate about his product as any and they seem to be doing well. It's no real comparison to an RV except wings and an engine but quite the spectacle.

Definitely worth the visit....
 
Yeah. Doug posted about it on the front page last week.

So that's what happens when work gets in the way; miss one daily update and Doug gets a Cub.... yes, I'm jealous. I want a Cub! Or a Champ. Or pretty much any little ragwing taildragger.

And the Spitfire; yep, it's cool! I stopped in at Cisco a year ago to check it out... they were still getting things straightened out from the big move and re-assembling the blue Spit. Super nice guys there and very enthusiastic. One thing I couldn't get past though is the "bang for the buck" factor when compared to an RV-8. The Spit is looks fantastic, but at $155K for the kit and another $40K or so for the engine package... that's just too rich for me to have a cool looking ship but not much of a performance advantage over an RV. I've thought the same about the Titan T-51; awesome looking and would love to have one, but again, compared to the RV-8... you just can't beat it for the price.

But, I will admit, sometimes "cool" is worth the extra $$... hence why I'm getting checked out to fly a CAF AT-6/Harvard. 30 gph to do 140 kts? Crazy! But it has that sweet Pratt & Whitney radial engine noise to go with it...
 
Paul, The WWII replicas don't have to use a V-8 - a real V-12 makes them sound just right -

TM-1.jpg


A tight fit in the rear seat -

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And the view forward.... Familiar to RV-4 riders?

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Turning final to Chandler - we got there a lot quicker than Tiger or RV speeds...:)

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The Spitfire does have prettier lines with it's elliptical wings though...
 
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Gil,

You probably have seen this one in person in the PHX area. This fellow stick built this full size replica of the Spit.

<snip>

Yes... and it's a remarkable copy considering it is wood and not metal. You have to get pretty close to see it is not a real Spitfire.
 
Sorry,

Having flown Crazy Horse with John Posson at Kissimmee, there is no contest.........


The Mustang wins hands down.



I am amazed they got that motor in the Mk26 Spitfire. My friend flew the first completed one in the UK with a Jabiru flat 8 cylinder motor - awful thing, overheated, had loads of problems.

The largest they fit here in the Mk 26 is the short block Isuzu V-6 producing around 250hp, similar to the Titan T-51 which I had a close look at, at Sun n Fun. The T-51 is expensive, but well engineered, performed well and plenty of space.

How did you find the slow speed handling on the Mk 26 Paul, the early ones had all sorts of problems.
 
Well, it took most of my brain cells to remember how to operate that Australian-designed undercarriage....two switches, six lights, and two levers....for the TWO main landing gear! Oh yeah, there was a circuit breaker in there somewhere too....no wonder the empire fell....

That would be the Poms (British), have a look at the war in the Pacific, the Poms were nowhere. If it were not for the Aussies and Yankies we would be having sushi for dinner.....one of my favourite foods too :p

How they defended Britian is a mystery, if you look at aircraft designs over the last century, and chart British designs and American designs on a time line, and compare them......:eek: The Poms had no hope. from Tiger moths to the jet age. Hopeless.
 
The Spit has always been my favorite. I've spent many hours day dreaming
about a RV -3 or -4 painted like a Spit with one of those funny looking
spade control stick grips :D. Maybe I'll live the dream one of these days.
 
Paul you flew a plane with an auto engine? If or when I build again I will have to convince the maker of the spitfire to build me an engine. He has spent a ton of money on development and has been very successful with his set up.
 
I flew up to Cisco, Texas last Thursday night in the RV-8 (what a great way to travel on ?business? ? even stopped in College Station for dinner with Louise) so as to be in position to do a test flight in the Supermarine Aircraft Mk26B Spitfire for a future magazine article.

Let us know what magazine and publication month? I'm guessing you can't spill the beans about the Spitfire on this forum, but a pointer would be nice.

Cheers!
 
Let us know what magazine and publication month? I'm guessing you can't spill the beans about the Spitfire on this forum, but a pointer would be nice.

Cheers!

A good bet for the magazine is "Kitplanes" but I doubt if Paul knows the month.
 
Fun stuff!

I have a few hundred hours behind V-8s in this machine. It graced the covers of both Plane&Pilot and Kitplanes back in '94. Alas the company didn't really make it. FEW 2/3rd scale P-51D. They later made a TF-51 (2 seats) only a few of them were finished. It was fun though! Those V-8s sounded great! (I went through 3 of them in 2 yrs of flying) and had a full time crew chief supporting the airplane for demo/test work.


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My Crew Chief, the late Rodney Dodd, was a magician with this airplane!

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I spy the Ardmore Municipal airport there; love that FEW P-51! I got to sit in it once and make airplane noises... I still want one.
 
Thunder at La Cholla?

Gil, is that Thunder based at La Cholla? We've got a family place in Stone Canyon right under the turn from base to final and one warm March day about a year a go I came running to see what could only be described as a mini-Merlin screaming down the runway in a high speed pass and pull-up! I knew it looked like a mustang but was too small to be the real thing...if that was you, that is one incredible plane!
 
57AZ

Gil, is that Thunder based at La Cholla? We've got a family place in Stone Canyon right under the turn from base to final and one warm March day about a year a go I came running to see what could only be described as a mini-Merlin screaming down the runway in a high speed pass and pull-up! I knew it looked like a mustang but was too small to be the real thing...if that was you, that is one incredible plane!

Yes... that would be the one you saw...
 
That would be the Poms (British), have a look at the war in the Pacific, the Poms were nowhere. If it were not for the Aussies and Yankies we would be having sushi for dinner.....one of my favourite foods too :p

How they defended Britian is a mystery, if you look at aircraft designs over the last century, and chart British designs and American designs on a time line, and compare them......:eek: The Poms had no hope. from Tiger moths to the jet age. Hopeless.

Huh ?
That would be by comparison with those well-known products of the Aus aircraft-industry that defended the Pacific skies... the... ?........ and the .....??
oh.... none come to mind..... :(:eek:
 
Huh ?
That would be by comparison with those well-known products of the Aus aircraft-industry that defended the Pacific skies... the... ?........ and the .....??
oh.... none come to mind..... :(:eek:

O.k. a Kiwi who needs educating! Try the following list

5 Designed and all Built During WW2
Wirraway
Wackett Trainer
Boomerang
Woomera (prototype)
Kangaroo (prototype)
P 51 Mustang (licence built)
Bristol Beaufort (licence built)
Bristol Beaufighter (licence built)
de Havilland Mosquito (licence built)

Post war WW2
Ceres (crop duster)
Winjeel
Avon-Sabre (licence built, but with RR Avon motor)
Macchi MB 326 (licence built)
Bell 206 Kiowa (licence built)
Avro Lincoln (licence built)
English Electric Canberra (licence built)
GAF Pika
GAF Jindivik
Malkara missile
Ikara missile
Dassault Mirage III (licence built)
GAF Nomad
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet (licence built)

Engine types built
Pratt & Whitney R-1340 built for the Wirraway.
Pratt & Whitney R-1830 built for the Boomerang, Woomera and DAP Beaufort.
Rolls-Royce Merlin built for the GAF Lincoln.
Rolls-Royce Nene built for versions of the de Havilland Vampire manufactured by de Havilland Australia.
Rolls-Royce Avon built for the Sabre and GAF Canberra.
SNECMA Atar built for the Mirage.
Bristol Siddeley Viper built for the Macchi.
General Electric F404 built for versions of the F/A-18 Hornet manufactured by the Government Aircraft Factory/Aerospace Technologies of Australia.

cheers

Jim
 
O.k. a Kiwi who needs educating! Try the following list

5 Designed and all Built During WW2
Wirraway
Wackett Trainer
Boomerang
Woomera (prototype)
Kangaroo (prototype)
P 51 Mustang (licence built)
Bristol Beaufort (licence built)
Bristol Beaufighter (licence built)
de Havilland Mosquito (licence built)

Post war WW2
Ceres (crop duster)
Winjeel
Avon-Sabre (licence built, but with RR Avon motor)
Macchi MB 326 (licence built)
Bell 206 Kiowa (licence built)
Avro Lincoln (licence built)
English Electric Canberra (licence built)
GAF Pika
GAF Jindivik
Malkara missile
Ikara missile
Dassault Mirage III (licence built)
GAF Nomad
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet (licence built)

Engine types built
Pratt & Whitney R-1340 built for the Wirraway.
Pratt & Whitney R-1830 built for the Boomerang, Woomera and DAP Beaufort.
Rolls-Royce Merlin built for the GAF Lincoln.
Rolls-Royce Nene built for versions of the de Havilland Vampire manufactured by de Havilland Australia.
Rolls-Royce Avon built for the Sabre and GAF Canberra.
SNECMA Atar built for the Mirage.
Bristol Siddeley Viper built for the Macchi.
General Electric F404 built for versions of the F/A-18 Hornet manufactured by the Government Aircraft Factory/Aerospace Technologies of Australia.

cheers

Jim

Gosh !
...thanks for the education !!
I now know about (..if I constrain myself to Pacific-campaign era)
..the Wirraway (copy of American NA-16)...which accounted for exactly ONE enemy a/c
...which is ONE MORE than the total destroyed by the Boomerang (OK..I concede that was actually DESIGNED in Oz...but a fighter that doesn't seem to have been able to fight ??)
..and the Wackett Trainer (..well... I admit I hadn't heard of that one... but I guess the clue to its combat record is in the name !)..and on the basis that 'if it looks right, it'll fly right', its hard to believe this one ever left the ground (..unless it fell off, Australia being all upside-down!)

I mean, honestly ! ... As a POM now resident in N.Z., I'm familiar with Aus larceny, but its not exactly a distinguished track-record, is it ?
 
Round 2

Ahhh we have a Kiwi / Ozzie contest! So in the true sprit of the Trans Tasman Trophy and the Bledisloe Cup here is round 2

As I recall you did say products of the Aus Aircraft industry . Somehow the 23 products listed as produced during WW2 were made in OZ, and under licence is not quite the same as ...larceny. But lets look at some of the designs. Yes the Wirraway did only shoot down 1 zero, but they did go on to do great service in training thousands of combat crew. (somewhat helpful in winning a war)

True, the Boomerang did not do at all well as a fighter, but a lot of Japanese ground troops had many a bad day when the excelled in the ground attack role... Bit like the Typhoon. (and before you get excited, I am not saying the Boomerang was in the same league as the Tiffie, I am just making a comparison)

I guess our designs weren?t world beaters, but that was not what you said. From nil in 1935 to 1600 aircraft built during the war is not too shabby! In fact from nothing, no building no production line to producing the 1st Wirraway took just over 18mths.The Boomerang went from the drawing board on Dec 21 1941 (after the shock of Pearl Harbour) to first flight on the 29th May 1942, which by any ones measure was exceptional. By the end of the war we did design some real beauties, try looking at the Woomera and Kangaroo. Only the end of the war and the jet era stoped them from being produced (Oh.. and politicians)

Being an ex-Pom I find it interesting that (given your original post) you think that The Beafort, Beaufighter, Mosquito and P51 were not important combat aircraft that made a considerable difference in the Pacific theatre and thus did not help win the war.

Don't get me wrong Australia did not "win" the Pacific war, it is the USA that has the right to claim that, but we (and by we I also include NZ) helped as much as 8 million Australians and 1.5million New Zealanders could.

So come on "Cobber" "fair shake of the stick" I am willing to declare a draw if you are.

(And for all those in the U.S. this is not an argument with any ill feeling, we Australians and New Zealanders always have a "go" at each other, its a right we earned together in 1915)

Cheers

Jim
 
...So come on "Cobber" "fair shake of the stick" I am willing to declare a draw if you are.

(And for all those in the U.S. this is not an argument with any ill feeling, we Australians and New Zealanders always have a "go" at each other, its a right we earned together in 1915)

Cheers

Jim

I for one am enjoying the banter, and see it as nothing but good-natured.:) I passed up an opportunity to spend 10 days "Down Under" at a reasonable cost about 25 years ago. I'll never let that happen again; definitely on my "bucket list".
 
Not that!

OK - We'll call it quits, before we stray onto something serious, like cricket, Rugby or Phar Lap...

If we ventured anywhere near Cricket or Rugby we may end up having to call on our seconds and face off at 10 paces!!

Miles come down, you will be welcome. There are lots of RV's in both Australia and NZ and you or anyone else is most welcome. If any are interested the Sport Aircraft Association (SAAA) says that according to CASA (Australia’s regulator) there are..


RV3-2
RV3A-1
RV3B-1
RV4-40
RV6-95
RV6A-65
RV7-56
RV7A-73
RV8-23
RV8A-10
RV9-3
RV9A-26
RV10-26
RV12-2
Total 425

Jim

By the way the total population of home builts is 1195. So 35% of all homebuilt aircaft in Australia are RVs. (This is by far the biggest single type of experimental aeroplanes)
 
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If we ventured anywhere near Cricket or Rugby we may end up having to call on our seconds and face off at 10 paces!!

Miles come down, you will be welcome. There are lots of RV's in both Australia and NZ and you or anyone else is most welcome. If any are interested the Sport Aircraft Association (SAAA) says that according to CASA (Australia?s regulator) there are..


RV3-2
RV3A-1
RV3B-1
RV4-40
RV6-95
RV6A-65
RV7-56
RV7A-73
RV8-23
RV8A-10
RV9-3
RV9A-26
RV10-26
RV12-2
Total 425

Jim

By the way the total population of home builts is 1195. So 35% of all homebuilt aircaft in Australia are RVs. (This is by far the biggest single type of experimental aeroplanes)

Jim,
Make that 8 RV-12's flying (VH and RAA reg) and at least 18-20 under construction.
 
It would've been 41 RV4's, but Brian Jones sold his to me, & its been happily flying over the most beautiful country in the world, ever since ! :)

(..my own stand against Australians claiming other people's good stuff for temselves !! ) <GDR !!>
 
Rvs in Oz

Jim,
Make that 8 RV-12's flying (VH and RAA reg) and at least 18-20 under construction.

Wow 6 more and 18 -20 to come! That is terrific news. I suppose SAAA were only interested in VH registered aircraft so they didn't give RAA a call to see what they had on their register. There is, however, one more RV8 on CASA's list as of last week, because that is when my papers arrived. With a bit of luck (mostly weather type luck) she should be painted in about 4 weeks and then out to the hangar. Then wings attached a "million" checks, and then.......

Jim
 
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