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A bit disappointed

salty

Well Known Member
So, the wife and I decided to begin an RV-10 build. I'm still preparing the work space and procuring tools and such. Haven't even gotten to the point of ordering a kit yet, but that's mere days away.

A couple weeks ago I ordered the plans on USB and they arrived yesterday. I realize they aren't going to be totally up to date, etc, but what I got was disappointing after all the wonderful things I've heard about Vans. I got a thumb drive of about a hundred seemingly random pdfs, with no organization of file names, nothing pulling it all together. Seems like section 1 is missing, although I'll have to look at each of the 68 files in the main directory to know for sure.

Maybe I had my expectations set too high, but I'm less than impressed by this first transaction.
 
Yes, your expectations were a bit high.

If this is your first airplane build, there will be a lot of confusion at first and then lots of ongoing questions.

The forum is the glue and filler in between the gaps in your knowledge and what Van's Aircraft provides.

You'll enjoy the experience, get to building :)

Note that you will get a printed manual with the empennage kit.

Edit: Also, the various kits and things like the engine have considerable shipping times right now so be prepared for long waits.
 
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Plans

Were you going to print the build plans off your computer? Or use the computer as you were building? I would just order the plans to start with. I would assume that like the 14, plans come printed with each build kit, you assemble them and put into your binder. And then build from there.

Good luck and enjoy the build

RV 14A 140507 flying
2020 Donation paid
 
An RV is not an assembly kit. Put part A into part B. NO
When (IF) u finish & fly your RV, u will have attained a MASTERS degree or even a DOCTORATE in PROBLEM RESOLUTION. Whatever u have received so far may be testing u ??
 
Were you going to print the build plans off your computer? Or use the computer as you were building? I would just order the plans to start with. I would assume that like the 14, plans come printed with each build kit, you assemble them and put into your binder. And then build from there.

Good luck and enjoy the build

RV 14A 140507 flying
2020 Donation paid

I just wanted to get a head start on reading up on the build. But it'll take me a few hours just to figure out where the heck to start reading. I was expecting something with some sort of organization to it. Not 100 random documents. The fact that "section 1" isn't easily found annoys me in particular. I expected at least a table of contents for the 100 files....
 
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When the printed plans come they are in order. I organized and renamed my electronic docs, while I agree they should do it, it didn't take much effort. I use them in the office to study and to find things in inventory. I do have a laptop I use sometimes during building.
 
When the printed plans come they are in order. I organized and renamed my electronic docs, while I agree they should do it, it didn't take much effort. I use them in the office to study and to find things in inventory. I do have a laptop I use sometimes during building.

Yeah, I'm finding what I was looking for after browsing around for awhile. I found part of the TOC in one file, and the rest in another.
 
I combined all the files in Adobe to be one set of plans. At least the -14 plans are all numbered so it wasn't too hard. I don't know about the -10 plans.

I put the paper plans in a box and have been building exclusively off the digital plans.
 
Be aware that as time goes on, Van's makes subtle (and not so subtle) changes to parts and procedures, and the digital plans may not reflect what you get shipped in the kit. For instance, I bought the digital plans in 2015, and the wing kit in 2016 or 2017, and sometime in between, Van's upgraded the RV-10 kit based on new designs and procedures for the RV-14, and the digital plans were out of date. It took me a few hours to realize why the plans (digitlal) were telling me to do things with parts that weren't even in inventory, and then opened the paper plans and saw that the flap and aileron construction was shortened by 2 or 3 pages and greatly simplified.

The digital plans are great as a reference, and especially if you want to search for a part number (to see when that hole they tell you not to dimple on page X gets dimpled on Page X+20)! But make sure you are building to the paper plans shipped with your kit.
 
That's weird, when I bought my digital version it was seperated into folders and such. I do always get confused between the Construction Manual folder and Construction Drawings folder. You should have a PDF named:
RV-10 Construction Manual - Complete, This is all the general build information. Then look for RV-10 Emp.pdf, this is where you'll start.

Lynn
 
That's weird, when I bought my digital version it was seperated into folders and such. I do always get confused between the Construction Manual folder and Construction Drawings folder. You should have a PDF named:
RV-10 Construction Manual - Complete, This is all the general build information. Then look for RV-10 Emp.pdf, this is where you'll start.

Lynn

Neither of those exist on my drive.
 
Much like the toolbox prepares you to build things out of aluminum, the digital plans preview prepares you for the numerous times you will be disappointed in the actual plans.
 
This is what my file list looks like. And the nicely named ones are the most disappointing as to not really containing what they claim to contain.
 

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Plans

When I built my 6A, I ordered the hardcopy plans ahead of time. Read through and said to myself, doesn't seem too bad! As I built I came to realize that 1 page could be a month's work. As others have said - it isn't an "assembly" kit. *even if you go with the quickbuild*
 
I think it will help if you have the folders and files sorted alphabetically and not by date, which is pretty useless for this.
 
If you think that's bad wait until you get the FAB instructions lol.

The RV-10 plans USB I got was navigable so I'm not sure I follow.
 
If you think that's bad wait until you get the FAB instructions lol.

The RV-10 plans USB I got was navigable so I'm not sure I follow.

Take a look at the file list I posted above. If that's what you got, I'll re-adjust my expectations and move on.... I'm nothing if not flexible.
 
My USB preview plans for the -7 were much better organized. Two main folders, "Construction Manual" and "Construction Drawings".

Construction Manual folder
Contained a single PDF, the manual, sections 1-15.

Construction Drawings folder
Contained an index PDF, showing what was on each drawing, a single file "RV-7 Plans-ALL.pdf" which bundles up all the "regular" drawings. Also within that folder was an "OP Drawings" folder which contained individual PDFs of all the optional drawings. It was pretty organized.

Also:

Much like the toolbox prepares you to build things out of aluminum, the digital plans preview prepares you for the numerous times you will be disappointed in the actual plans.

...is so funny because it's true.
 
Flash drives weren't available when I built my 7A... at least I don't think they were. My only real input is this. The plans that will come with the kit are the best. Like someone said all organized etc. It will seem ALMOST overwhelming at first but don't fail to remember you don't have to figure it all out now. When you build you'll concentrate on the parts you're working with NOW... solving each problem/question one at a time. I am an almost OCD person when it comes to organization... when I received my kit, I felt like for the first time I'd bit off more than I can chew. Then my fathers words kept coming back.... "You can eat a whole pie one bite at a time." He was right.

These forums are your go to place for information and support. Happy building!
 
I've assisted on a early RV-4, built a PJ-260 from plans, a few EZ's from plans, a Glassair and Lancair from kits. RV 10 & 14 plans are light years ahead of anything else currently available - and perhaps better than anything ever produced with the possible exception of Frank Christen's Eagle.

The Parsons-Jocelyn 260 (aka D'Apuzzo Senior Aerosport) plans were "interesting"
 
Misc plans

That's nothing.
Lots of components have their own plans and instructions.
I find the 7 USB quite easy to use although I typically use thebfull size paper plans.
 
For perspective, the journey you are embarking on took me 5 years- with the kit downstairs in my well-supplied, air-conditioned shop, with an entire ground-up 6A solo build under my belt 20 years prior, and starting from basically QB completion level by thew guy I bought the kit from - all the Akzo priming already done for me, for instance.

At least you have a wife interested in helping; that will speed things and take away a source of relational stress.

This is not for the faint of heart, no matter how slick and "easy" it all looks when you open the crates.
 
Any chance the files are sorted by date versus by name? Seem to be grouped that way. Oops, missed the previous post to that effect.
 
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i was pretty much done with my 12 build when i got the flash drive. it was to me pretty much useless to me until i went thru it and put a name...ex. ''adjust rudder cable tension'' or something that followed the printed manual. then it became handy to use away from the plane.
 
Your list of the files does not at all match the contents of the thumb drive I got, which was reasonably straight-forward. Contact Van's and talk to them. I bet they make it right.

Dave
 
Your list of the files does not at all match the contents of the thumb drive I got, which was reasonably straight-forward. Contact Van's and talk to them. I bet they make it right.

Dave

Talked to them a few minutes ago. They reached out to me due to this thread. They said the digital docs for the 10 are on their list to clean up, what I have is apparently correct.
 
My files I bought over 1 year ago wereorganized

I see that Vans is telling you the files need to get cleaned up.

My thumb drive, ordered after I started building, had the files in nice larger segments. Fuse, Wings, tail, finish kit and then a folder with all the service bulletins and special add-ons.

I bet this is an issue with their moving the -10 to final hole size.
 
They are better on paper anyway.

When I built my -4, there were no computers, websites, flashdrives or VAF...and mine flies and performs as advertised. Love it. You are truly going to build in an era where the intel is abundant, questions can be answered, pictures shared and critics will abound. BUT, there is nothing better, old or new, than a huge set of prints..Mine are all 24"x36" or thereabouts, and that's what you will want. If your first thoughts of VAN's are doubtful, slip over to another experimental design of choice and feel the pain of big, dark, helpless hole...then get back to the -10 and press on! ..Im not beating down other designs, I just know there is no other support group like the path you have chosen. Period.
 
I bet this is an issue with their moving the -10 to final hole size.

Sorry, but you'd lose that bet. :) The plans did not change when we started final sized holes. At all.

We do plan to rearrange a few things in the RV-10 USB/digital plans to make them a little easier to use for a first-timer when trying to find things. All the info is there now, it's just not quite as intuitive as it could be. It's on our list, but not at the very top. :)
 
When I built my -4, there were no computers, websites, flashdrives or VAF...and mine flies and performs as advertised. Love it. You are truly going to build in an era where the intel is abundant, questions can be answered, pictures shared and critics will abound. BUT, there is nothing better, old or new, than a huge set of prints..Mine are all 24"x36" or thereabouts, and that's what you will want. If your first thoughts of VAN's are doubtful, slip over to another experimental design of choice and feel the pain of big, dark, helpless hole...then get back to the -10 and press on! ..Im not beating down other designs, I just know there is no other support group like the path you have chosen. Period.

This was not so big a deal as to make me question my build choice. But everything I read was how well documented Vans kits were, so I guess my expectations were just too high. The fact that they reached out to me is also a nice touch.
 
I read was how well documented Vans kits were

... relative to other kits :p

You just won't find an easier kit to build when you factor in the community. Not only does Vans do an amazing job at keeping you organized but this incredibly active online community just doesn't exist with other kit manufacturers. Getting answers at 10:00p while in a Saturday night building marathon is priceless :D

Also, you get a printed manual with the kit.
 
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Sort by name

Start with RV-10 Manual - Table of Contents. That gives you the sections to look for in the file list.

Sections 3 (tools) and 5 (techniques) you probably already have with the practice kits. You'll probably end up with about 4 different version of section 5.

The actual build starts in section 6, the 06_10 file. 21_10 (Obsolete) you can ignore. It's the pre-14 aileron and does not apply to your build at all. 31Q means "quadrant" not "quick-build" fwiw. FF is the firewall-forward kit.

And yeah, you'll get paper copies of the instructions with each kit. I'd highly recommend getting a 3-ring binder for them. It's nice to be able to pull out a single page and the paper binder Van's send tends to eat the first and last page.
 
Or even better, have them spiral-bound so that you can keep them open or fold them around so that only one page is showing.

Dave
 
Sort by name

Start with RV-10 Manual - Table of Contents. That gives you the sections to look for in the file list.

Sections 3 (tools) and 5 (techniques) you probably already have with the practice kits. You'll probably end up with about 4 different version of section 5.

The actual build starts in section 6, the 06_10 file. 21_10 (Obsolete) you can ignore. It's the pre-14 aileron and does not apply to your build at all. 31Q means "quadrant" not "quick-build" fwiw. FF is the firewall-forward kit.

And yeah, you'll get paper copies of the instructions with each kit. I'd highly recommend getting a 3-ring binder for them. It's nice to be able to pull out a single page and the paper binder Van's send tends to eat the first and last page.

This helps me understand the organization. Thanks! Realizing that some of the "sections" are common to multiple kits helps it make more sense.
 
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And yet again my expectations are not met by Vans....



I was given a 4-6 week delivery estimate for my emp kit, and I found out today it's already on it's way after only 2 weeks! I was not expecting it to be early for crying out loud! I'm not ready yet!!!!!!

:D:D:D
 
And yet again my expectations are not met by Vans....



I was given a 4-6 week delivery estimate for my emp kit, and I found out today it's already on it's way after only 2 weeks! I was not expecting it to be early for crying out loud! I'm not ready yet!!!!!!

:D:D:D

Merry Christmas! :)
 
And yet again my expectations are not met by Vans....



I was given a 4-6 week delivery estimate for my emp kit, and I found out today it's already on it's way after only 2 weeks! I was not expecting it to be early for crying out loud! I'm not ready yet!!!!!!

:D:D:D

Strategic planning to prepare you for the ups and downs of the process. Enjoy it, own it, and build on! :).
 
I ordered the prelim plans as well... when you are just starting on your first build... the entire process is a bit over whelming... including the plans.

Don't let that be a deciding factor... as you get started things just start falling into place... I am still early in the build, but I can't say enough good things about Van's.

As they say, "just do it ! " :)
 
And that is why I don't go to Vegas:)

So the plans did not change at all? The sentence often repeated and somewhat dreaded, is still intact: "Disassemble, deburr and dimple" (I added prime but is a different thread). Such simple words lead to so much time.

Thanks, keep the good work coming.


Sorry, but you'd lose that bet. :) The plans did not change when we started final sized holes. At all.

We do plan to rearrange a few things in the RV-10 USB/digital plans to make them a little easier to use for a first-timer when trying to find things. All the info is there now, it's just not quite as intuitive as it could be. It's on our list, but not at the very top. :)
 
Looks like the preview plans ended with the RV9.

The preview plans are a great source of information before, during and after construction.

The thumb drive is good when you just want to print a page for the workbench.
 
Is it normal to get used parts in a kit? I got a half dozen parts that have already been worked with. Two in particular are pretty mangled up. They are bent completely out of shape, scratched up pretty badly, and have pretty horrid dimpling. And that's from my perspective as someone new to this. I can't imagine anyone accepting the workmanship on them.

So, multi part question, is it normal to get used parts, would you accept the parts pictured? And finally, are my expectations of getting all new parts unrealistic?
 

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Is it normal to get used parts in a kit? I got a half dozen parts that have already been worked with. Two in particular are pretty mangled up. They are bent completely out of shape, scratched up pretty badly, and have pretty horrid dimpling. And that's from my perspective as someone new to this. I can't imagine anyone accepting the workmanship on them.

So, multi part question, is it normal to get used parts, would you accept the parts pictured? And finally, are my expectations of getting all new parts unrealistic?

No used parts should be in the kit...that's just weird...call Vans.

As far as the last photo showing the ribs with a curve...that's normal. Happens when the part is formed. You'll use fluting pliers to straighten them out...There's an art to that, just search the forum and you'll find all sorts of tips.
 
I don't see anything wrong with the parts in the photo. Van's dimples the tip holes as a standard dimple tool will not work. The holes might not be dimpled as crisp as normal but I summarize that that is the effect of the tool they are using . The ribs still need to be cleaned up and fluted.
Standard kit parts , build on.
 
Is it normal to get used parts in a kit? I got a half dozen parts that have already been worked with. Two in particular are pretty mangled up. They are bent completely out of shape, scratched up pretty badly, and have pretty horrid dimpling. And that's from my perspective as someone new to this. I can't imagine anyone accepting the workmanship on them.

So, multi part question, is it normal to get used parts, would you accept the parts pictured? And finally, are my expectations of getting all new parts unrealistic?

Those parts are not used. Van's dimple a few ribs that you would have no way to get a dimple in. Those look the way mine looked. Dimpled and the blue wrap taken off.
 
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I don't see anything wrong with the parts in the photo. Van's dimples the tip holes as a standard dimple tool will not work. The holes might not be dimpled as crisp as normal but I summarize that that is the effect of the tool they are using . The ribs still need to be cleaned up and fluted.
Standard kit parts , build on.

When did Van's start dimpling those ribs? That's great because dimpling the old style ones was a PITA.

To the original poster, those parts are fine. Just flute the ribs straight and you're good to go.
 
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