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XCruze 100 / GRT WS / GNS 430W

Pilotjim77

Well Known Member
I need some help with my new autopilot installation. I just installed a Bendix King XCruze 100. It is connected to dual GRT WS EFIS displays which in turn are connected to a Garmin 430W.

I am getting a "NO GPS" message on the main screen of the XCruze. According to the troubleshooting section in the XCruze manual, this is caused by one of three things:

1. GPS not configured correctly
2. Baud rate set incorrectly
3. Wiring is faulty

1. I have the GPS configured as follows. The 430W is sending RS-232 aviation data on channel 3 (pin 41) to both EFIS units. The 430W configuration on channel 3 output is set to "Aviation." The EFISs are both receiving this data on serial port 5, which are configured as follows: Baud rate 9600; Input GPS 1 Aviation/MapCom; Output Autopilot (NMEA0183); Input counter is running.

2. Baud rate on both EFIS displays is set at 9600 for serial port 5.

3. I did a continuity check on the wiring. There is no resistance between pin 17 on the autopilot connector and pin 3 (serial 5 out) on the A connector on the GRT screens. There is also no resistance between pin 41 on the 430W and pin 22 on the GRT A connector (serial 5 in).

Since all of the wiring and configurations are confirmed to be correct, why am I still receiving "NO GPS" on the autopilot? Is it possible the WS in not compatible with the XCruze? Should I wire the 430W directly to pin 17 on the autopilot instead of routing it through the EFIS?
 
Jim,

I assume you were outside when testing this. ;)
You did state you had an ARINC so I assume you do not. One thing I did was put a switch between the 430 and the A/P. I could then allow the 430 to drive the A/P or the EFIS. I am also attaching a photo of my RS232 settings.

I had a similar issue which turned out to be a mixed up wire. It drove me nuts for weeks. I ended up tracing every wire multiple times before finding the problem.
I can send you my wiring schematic if you would like to see how I wired the switch. The original schematic was done for a TT A/P which was then upgraded to a TT Vizion which required a jumper harness.

I no longer have the 430, I upgraded to an Avidyne IFD440, same wiring btw.

Mark
 

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Jim,

I assume you were outside when testing this. ;)
You did state you had an ARINC so I assume you do not. One thing I did was put a switch between the 430 and the A/P. I could then allow the 430 to drive the A/P or the EFIS. I am also attaching a photo of my RS232 settings.

I had a similar issue which turned out to be a mixed up wire. It drove me nuts for weeks. I ended up tracing every wire multiple times before finding the problem.
I can send you my wiring schematic if you would like to see how I wired the switch. The original schematic was done for a TT A/P which was then upgraded to a TT Vizion which required a jumper harness.

I no longer have the 430, I upgraded to an Avidyne IFD440, same wiring btw.

Mark

Mark,

Yes, I did test outside with full GPS signal coverage.

I do have Arinc with a switch wired per the diagram below from GRT's website. I do NOT have the RS-232 wired according to this diagram. I have the 430W feeding only the WS, and the WS feeding the autopilot.
 

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NAV Mode

Check the two Lateral Autopilot Mode boxes in the upper left of the PFD to make sure it's receiving and processing the 430W data.

If the PFD is receiving/processing GPS1, then make sure it's also trying to send that data to the autopilot. Using the NAV Mode button, make sure you've selected GPS1.

Bo
 
Check the two Lateral Autopilot Mode boxes in the upper left of the PFD to make sure it's receiving and processing the 430W data.

If the PFD is receiving/processing GPS1, then make sure it's also trying to send that data to the autopilot. Using the NAV Mode button, make sure you've selected GPS1.

Bo

Thanks, Bo. I will investigate those settings tomorrow.
 
Jim,
I am attaching a screen shot of my settings on the EFIS. These are on a Sport SX I’m not sure how different a WS is from an SX.
Mark
 

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Mark, it looks like you have your GPS baud rate set at 4800. Is that correct, and was that for the 430 or the Avidyne? I thought the 430W needed to be set at 9600.
 
Jim,
The 4800 baud rate is for GPS2 which is not the 430. The 430 is on serial port 1 which is 9600. There were no changes between the 430 and the 440.
Mark
 
Jim

A year and ahalf ago I fought a similar battle for over four months and 21 test flights when I upgraded my two old WS units to GRT Horizon EX units with a separate ARINC module. I suspect your upgrade to the xCruise autopilot will be a similar challenge.

GRT documentation sucks! It’s spread out over too many documents forcing you to do deep, legacy documentation research. Their knowledgeable tech support rests in one person,Jeff Defow, and he is overworked and seems to have work only in the evening. Try contacting him around 8:00 pm CST. Best way is via email, sent in the evening.

Here’s what I think is correct but I’m not an electronics person - just someone who’s fought a similar battle. The old TruTrac Vizion 385 is basically the new BK xCruise 100 - now manufactured under a different brand annd model name. Andrew Barker who monitors this website is the autopilot expert you should ask for autopilot specific questions. Older GRT WS ARINC units are mounted on the back of the WS EFIS and utilizes serial port one on the WS unit - which is one of only two high speed serial ports on the WS EFIS. Therefore it’s EFIS serial port one where you program the ARINC input and autopilot output. Use the same baud rate and configuration that you set in the G430.

I’m using the newer external ARINC pin wiring descriptions here ( the one not mounted on the back of a WS EFIS) for this but the pinout equation is similar. You should probably contact Jeff Defow if your GRT ARINC is in fact the one mounted on the back of the WS unit.

G430 pin 46 (arinc gps out 2A) goes to arinc pin C3.
G430 pin 47 (arinc gps out 2B) goes to arinc pin C4.
G430 pin 48 (arinc gps in 1A) goes to arinc pin C5.
G430 pin 49 (arinc gps in 1B) goes to arinc pin C9.
G430 pin 23 (vor arinc B) goes to arinc pin C2.
G430 pin 24 (vor arinc A) goes to arinc pin C1.

G430 pin 56 (gps serial 1 out) goes to EFIS pin A20.
G430 pin 57 (gps serial 1 input) goes to EFIS pin A2.

EFIS pin A3 (EFIS serial output 5)should be wired to A/P pin 17.
G430 pin 46 should also be wired to A/P pin 14.
G430 pin 47 should also be wired to A/P pin 15.

ARINC A and B provides differential signals from your Garmin 430 receiver which provides differential steering commands (GPSV and GPSS) to the autopilot. The autopilot will show a “GPS+” if it’s receiving differential commands after boot up and will enter GPSS mode upon engaging if correctly wired.

The EFIS serial 5 output to the autopilot (pin 17) provides the autopilot directional reference through your EFIS (heading changes - left knob on EFIS). The autopilot will accept either 4800 or 9600 baud rate and decodes NMEA-0183, Garmin Aviation Format. Make sure serial ports one and five have the same baud rate.

Now you may have an issue with the WS Arinc module “arinc out” output (pins C5 and C9) of the GRT ARINC module because some early GRT ARINC modules weren’t wired for both ARINC in and out, however by wiring A/P pin 14 to G430 pin 46 and A/P pin 15 to G430 pin 47 you should be okay. Cardinal rule - only ARINC A’s to A’s and B’s to B’s. Mixing A and B data screws everything up.

Hopefully this will help and I haven’t confuse you more. Jeff Defow at GRT is the true WS/ARINC expert so it’s best to consult with him about your questions. VAF’s Bob Turner is good also but I don’t believe he utilizes the xCruise/Vizion 385 autopilot.

I recommend you go to the GRT website and download the GRT 430/530 Supplement and study this document’s wiring diagram in great detail however it’s based, I believe on an external ARINC module. Also go to the Bendix King website and download the old TruTrac Vizion 380/385 Series Autopilot Installation Manual and study the pin out table on page 4 and the Garmin 430W and 530W table on page 11.

Good reading and good luck. Merry Christmas!
 
There is no resistance between pin 17 on the autopilot connector and pin 3 (serial 5 out) on the A connector on the GRT screens.

Did you really mean ‘screens’, plural? If so, that won’t work. One ‘out’ can drive two or more ‘in’ ports, but two outs must never be connected together.

I really recommend a DPDT switch as shown on the grt schematic. And, as shown on the same schematic, run a direct rs232 line from the 430 to the autopilot. (I actually used a three pole, double throw switch, as recommended by Trio, to switch the rs 232 out as well as the ARINC lines, between the 430 and the efis, but I don’t think that’s necessary). Normally you’ll control the autopilot thru the efis (nicer interface, true heading hold, vor or ils tracking if you have one, etc) but should the efis quit it’s nice to keep using the autopilot with the flip of one switch. If you put the switch in, you can isolate the problem you’re having: with this source switch in the 430 position, the efis is out of the loop. If the autopilot won’t work, the issue must be with the wiring or settings on the 430 or autopilot. Get that working, then move on to efis control.
 
Did you really mean ‘screens’, plural? If so, that won’t work. One ‘out’ can drive two or more ‘in’ ports, but two outs must never be connected together.

I really recommend a DPDT switch as shown on the grt schematic. And, as shown on the same schematic, run a direct rs232 line from the 430 to the autopilot. (I actually used a three pole, double throw switch, as recommended by Trio, to switch the rs 232 out as well as the ARINC lines, between the 430 and the efis, but I don’t think that’s necessary). Normally you’ll control the autopilot thru the efis (nicer interface, true heading hold, vor or ils tracking if you have one, etc) but should the efis quit it’s nice to keep using the autopilot with the flip of one switch. If you put the switch in, you can isolate the problem you’re having: with this source switch in the 430 position, the efis is out of the loop. If the autopilot won’t work, the issue must be with the wiring or settings on the 430 or autopilot. Get that working, then move on to efis control.

Bob, I do have the DPDT switch installed. But it seems this only pertains to the ARINC wires connected to pins 14 and 15 on the autopilot. The "NO GPS" message on the autopilot seems to be in regards to the RS-232 wire connected to pin 17. Is that correct? I tried setting the serial output on one of the display units to "OFF" but that did not work. Perhaps I need to remove one of the display wires altogether?
 
Bob, I do have the DPDT switch installed. But it seems this only pertains to the ARINC wires connected to pins 14 and 15 on the autopilot. The "NO GPS" message on the autopilot seems to be in regards to the RS-232 wire connected to pin 17. Is that correct? I tried setting the serial output on one of the display units to "OFF" but that did not work. Perhaps I need to remove one of the display wires altogether?

I *think* you answered my question - you do have two rs232-out ports (one on each efis) connected together, both feeding pin 17 on the autopilot? That won’t work. One ‘out’ cannot go to another out. Cut or remove one of the efis connections.
I would prefer, for simplicity/fewer boxes, that you connect the rs232-out from the gps directly to AP pin 17, but going thru the efis should work (but obviously will fail if the efis itself fails).
 
I *think* you answered my question - you do have two rs232-out ports (one on each efis) connected together, both feeding pin 17 on the autopilot? That won’t work. One ‘out’ cannot go to another out. Cut or remove one of the efis connections.
I would prefer, for simplicity/fewer boxes, that you connect the rs232-out from the gps directly to AP pin 17, but going thru the efis should work (but obviously will fail if the efis itself fails).

Yes, that is correct. I will be removing the EFIS to A/P RS-232 connections and connecting the 430 directly to the A/P. Hopefully, this will solve the issue. Thanks for your help.

Have a wonderful Christmas!
 
Thank you all for the help and information. The problem has been solved! I connected a serial wire directly from the 430W to the autopilot (pin 17), and I disconnected the serial wires from the two display units to the autopilot. The XCruze is now functioning properly.
 
Thank you all for the help and information. The problem has been solved! I connected a serial wire directly from the 430W to the autopilot (pin 17), and I disconnected the serial wires from the two display units to the autopilot. The XCruze is now functioning properly.

This thread highlights a xCruze design approach that is not well documented in the install manual but has come up a few times lately on VAF when integrating with a GPS navigator, in my case it was a GNX375 to the TruTrak Gemini (xCruze 110). The xCruze needs a valid GPS signal on the RS232 input (typically pin 17) as that is the primary GPS input even if you have arinc429 connected to a GPS navigator. The xCruze prioritizes the arinc429 signal if receiving but still needs the rs232 input. Was a pain to figure this out but Andrew confirmed that that is the case.

It is kind of handy as in my case I have the Aera 760 providing the RS232 GPS input (apparently uses the same GPS chip as the 375) and the GNX375 providing the arinc429 which allows me to easily select a Direct To on the larger 760 screen and fly lateral GPS navigation (GPC NAV) then activate a approach on the 375 and have it take over for a fully coupled VNav capability (GPSS/GPSV). Also works well with my legacy Dynon D100/HS34 panel.
Figs
 
This thread highlights a xCruze design approach that is not well documented in the install manual but has come up a few times lately on VAF when integrating with a GPS navigator, in my case it was a GNX375 to the TruTrak Gemini (xCruze 110). The xCruze needs a valid GPS signal on the RS232 input (typically pin 17) as that is the primary GPS input even if you have arinc429 connected to a GPS navigator. The xCruze prioritizes the arinc429 signal if receiving but still needs the rs232 input. Was a pain to figure this out but Andrew confirmed that that is the case.

It is kind of handy as in my case I have the Aera 760 providing the RS232 GPS input (apparently uses the same GPS chip as the 375) and the GNX375 providing the arinc429 which allows me to easily select a Direct To on the larger 760 screen and fly lateral GPS navigation (GPC NAV) then activate a approach on the 375 and have it take over for a fully coupled VNav capability (GPSS/GPSV). Also works well with my legacy Dynon D100/HS34 panel.
Figs

Figs - your mention that it works well with the D100/HS34 caught my eye, hoping you could elaborate a bit. I'm also looking to couple a GNS430W to the XCruze 100, but Dynon tells me that it's an either/or proposition wrt the D100. That is - they say you would need a toggle switch and select either the D100 or a/p (I guess that would be the arinc429 signal?) Understand that you have the Aera connected to the XCruze RS232, and the GNX via the arinc429 - how is the D100 connected and do you get NAV/GPS courses to the HSI as well as feeding the XCruze? Appreciate any info. Mike Whooley
 
Works with a D100, HS 34, Avidyne 440 (formerly 430W), and trutrak AP

Mike,

Not sure who told you the HSI on the Dynon D100 and the Trutrak AP can't both simultaneously use info from the 430W Navigator. That's not true. PM me if you need a wiring diagram. Although not the original builder, I have how mine was configured.


On the other point discussed. I also have an Aera 760 and have considered putting in a toggle to drive the AP with the 760 as an alternate to the Avidyne. There's really no reason other than for a backup. the Avidyne that was a plug and play replacement for the 430W is just too good and easy to operate that I have no need to regularly navigate from the 760.
 
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