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  #1  
Old 03-23-2021, 05:28 PM
Gilbert Gilbert is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Bucuresti
Posts: 13
Question What would be the market price of a newly built RV-10?

Hello guys and thank you very much for letting me enter this nice community!
My name is Gilbert, I am 46 y.o. and I run a small business (not aviation related) in Bucharest, Romania, Eastern Europe. I have just started attending PPL classes in order to obtain my license. I have access to several good automation engineers and to one aeronautical engineer and pilot (beside being myself a technically oriented person) and I am planning to build two RV-10s, one to keep for myself and one to sell. The engineer/pilot above will also be building his RV-7 about the same time and will help me with my 10s. But the first thing I am wondering is that if building a RV-10 (in a few months of labor) in order to sell it, once completed, would make economic sense. As there are very few classifieds regarding used or newly built RV-10s, I can not figure out the price I could obtain.
Maybe I did not know where to search. Can somebody please give me a little help? Of course, it depends a lot on the aircraft’s specs, but will I have chances to sell it quick or will I just lose my time and money?

Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 03-24-2021 at 04:30 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-23-2021, 05:45 PM
Ron B. Ron B. is offline
 
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Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia
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I think you should build one first, then decide if you want to build the second one. Not sure on your rules where you are but in Canada and the USA , you cannot build just to sell it. This does not follow the Experimental and amature build rules here.
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  #3  
Old 03-23-2021, 05:53 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Location: Livermore, CA
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Hi Gilbert,
A few things.
1. You need to check the rules in your country. In the US if you openly state that your sole motivation in building was to sell it, the FAA will not issue an EAB airworthiness certificate (EAB = experimental amateur built). You must say you built it for your ‘education or enjoyment’.
2. Your time estimate is way off. Most builders spend years, and thousands of hours, even on so-called quick build kits. This is why it’s important that you find enjoyment in the work. There is so much, that if you don’t like it, you’ll never finish.
To answer your question: at this time, in the US, there seems to be a huge demand. Well built, well equipped, and nicely painted RV10’s are selling for over $200,000.
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  #4  
Old 03-24-2021, 08:57 AM
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flion flion is offline
 
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Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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That $200k estimate is in US dollars and does not indicate what the market would be in your country. Nor could you export finished aircraft back to the US. Also, there would be little profit margin. The kits run $50k to $65k depending on standard or quickbuild. Add engine, prop, avionics, and paint and the cost could be over $150k, assuming no problems with replacement parts. So, assuming a generous $50k in profit for, say, 1000 hours work (really, it will be more), then you'd get $5 per hour. That's a really, really rough estimate. Expect to earn less, because I haven't even mentioned business costs, such as a shop, tools, insurance, and on and on.

There's a reason why similar factory aircraft have a much higher selling price.
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  #5  
Old 03-24-2021, 09:48 AM
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Jpm757 Jpm757 is offline
 
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Building 2 RV-10's in hopes of selling 1 and covering the cost of the 2nd one isn't going to happen, not even close.
Assuming all new components and IFR equipped, you are pushing $200k (usd) in parts expense. A VERY nice -10 might fetch $250-275k, which might cover 1/3 of the cost for RV-10 #2. People don't get rich building and selling RV's or most any other kit plane for that matter. As others have mentioned, is building/selling multiple EAB aircraft legal in Romania? Your post seems to indicate you plan on "a few months" build time. This is totally unrealistic unless you have a significant amount of assistance. My -7 was completed in 14 months which amounted to nearly a full time job.
Best of Luck!
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  #6  
Old 03-24-2021, 10:14 AM
Gilbert Gilbert is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
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Thank you very much for all your kind answers!
Now I got the point about the EAB airworthiness certificate and the rules that governs that. I think that here, in the European Union, the rules might be quite the same. I will figure it out. Why couldn’t I export it back to the US?
The major problem would be, though, that it would be impossible to obtain the certificate as a company, because I think only an individual could claim personal “education and enjoyment” purposes. Thus, the local VAT I will have to pay when importing the kit will be non-refundable at the time of export and should be added to the price of the final product, which is very bad.
A very short estimate would look like this:
- price of the kits, parts etc. shipped to EU: 180k + VAT + customs fees = 235k
- hiring 2 people (one of them being an engineer) for a year: 32k
- painting and other expenses: 30k
The total would be at least 297k, a quite important amount of money. Now, if it sells for $400k, that would be a deal. Even for 350k, would still be quite interesting. That is why I was asking about the market price of a good built, well equipped RV-10 on the US market. Seeing an add like the one in the first post with a 450k price is encouraging, but that is not necessarily the real price the market would accept. It is the lack of enough data about a newly built RV-10’s real price on the US market that made me ask for your appreciated help.
Later edit: now I have just seen your answer, Jpm757, thank you very much for your opinion and for a realistic market price.

Last edited by Gilbert : 03-24-2021 at 10:22 AM.
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  #7  
Old 03-24-2021, 11:57 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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In answer to your question of “why can’t it be exported back to the United States”, the answer is that it would have to qualify for a US Airworthiness Certificate, and if it was built for profit (if that is legal in your country), it could never qualify for E-Ab certification in the US, so essentially it is “dead” in terms of selling in the US market.

Paul
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  #8  
Old 03-24-2021, 12:02 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
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Default rv-10

"built in a few months of labor"...that gave me a chuckle!
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  #9  
Old 03-24-2021, 12:32 PM
Gilbert Gilbert is offline
 
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@Ironflight: thank you for the explanation! Now I doubt that it would be legal in the EU, either. Didn't know about this limitation.
@rocketman: as I remember, Vans states 2000 hrs. Let's say 2500. That would be less than 40 weeks for 2 hired technicians, one of them being an automation engineer, plus another 3rd person, aeronautical engineer, supervising remotely each day and onsite twice a week.
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  #10  
Old 03-24-2021, 12:45 PM
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MacCool MacCool is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilbert View Post
@Ironflight: thank you for the explanation! Now I doubt that it would be legal in the EU, either. Didn't know about this limitation.
@rocketman: as I remember, Vans states 2000 hrs. Let's say 2500. That would be less than 40 weeks for 2 hired technicians, one of them being an automation engineer, plus another 3rd person, aeronautical engineer, supervising remotely each day and onsite twice a week.
...assuming that the various kit components, accessories, engines, avionics, are available to meet that timeline. I'm not following it that closely, but it seems that Van's is in quite a pickle these days relative to meeting its customers' needs in a timely fashion. Demand appears to be significantly exceeding supply. Your timeline might have to be a little more flexible than you're anticipating.
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