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2 experimentals down in Florida...3 dead

T

tonyjohnson

Well Known Member
Tragic news. An accident at an EAA pancake breakfast in FL claimed two lives, two others injured and evacuated by helicopter.

http://www.local6.com/news/15458532/detail.html

Additional information from another local channel: http://www.wftv.com/news/15458415/detail.html

Latest info at 11:57: Aircraft described as an RV 4 and a canard type, perhaps cozy. Fatalities seem to be from the RV4 which was on the ground. http://flatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080301/BREAKINGNEWS/80301005

Conditions of the two survivers are listed as "grave" for one and "extremely critical" for the other. Very sad news.

Another news link: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-bk-planecrash030108,0,3168929.story?track=rss
 
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My condolences to the family and friends of all those involved.

This hurts...
 
Gaenicke said the first plane that contained the two people who were killed was on the ground; the second plane was circling and was attemtping to land and collided with the other plane.
 
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very sad

Godspeed to those that passed and my thoughts are with the injured and hope for their recovery.

Stan
 
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Coinneach said:
Gaenicke said the first plane that contained the two people who were killed was on the ground; the second plane was circling and was attemtping to land and collided with the other plane.

Classic runway incursion. :(
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Why don't we wait for the facts before writing the accident report. :(

This is a tragic event, and one that hits all of us who frequent Saturday morning events especially hard.......
 
If the report about the canard crossing a median and running into a taxiing RV is factual, the RV occupants probably never had a chance. My condolences to their families.
 
owner information

From a press report:

One plane was registered to Christen Air Inc. in Wilmington, Del., according to the FAA's online aircraft registry. A telephone listing for that company was not immediately found.

The other was registered to William E. Hess of Daytona Beach, according to FAA records.

The white pages show that a Mr. William Hess of Daytona Beach owns an RV8. No information was provided by the press as to whether Mr. Hess was involved in the accident, only that he owns the aircraft.
 
Coinneach said:
Gaenicke said the first plane that contained the two people who were killed was on the ground; the second plane was circling and was attemtping to land and collided with the other plane.

Classic runway incursion. :(
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As others have said, too early for speculation-----specially when the report says the plane on the ground was on the taxiway.

If that is correct, no incursion occurred.

Lets wait for facts.

Our prayers for the victims.
 
Everyone, this accident took the lives of two of our friends. I am asking everyone to please refrain from any speculation. In my tenure as an accident investigator what I learned is that all accidents at first seem to have a clear and definitive explanation, but in the end things are usually not as they seem. Right now the media is posting a lot of wrong information about this accident and it’s not helping the families at all. Everyone is still in shock about this and posting rumors is only going to make it harder on the people who loved these two men. What will help everyone right now are your prayers for the victims and families of those involved. I thank you in advance for your professionalism and candor. Brian
 
First of all.. my condolences to all involved..

correct me if I am wrong here.. but..
when you are talking to the press. (and posting their quotes ) use some constraint in situations like this..

also love how the press reports names etc.. and calls the person/company they are registered to.. before next of kin is properly notified.. :(
 
Fact Check?

Not Spruce Creek Airpark (Daytona), Titusville (Arthur Dunn Airpark). (RV pilots from spruce creek, daytona, fl)
The vert tail looks like a RV-8 more than a RV-4? (RV-8 registered to William E. Hess of Daytona Beach)
Velocity not Cozy?

Sad, thoughts and prayers. :(

Edit: new video, interview eyewitness, pilot & friend of RV'ers Planes Collide In Brevard County
It looks like the Velocity just ran right into the RV during a failed go around. The RV was off the runway on the taxiway.
 
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What tragic news. Condolences, thoughts and prayers to the families of those killed, and prayers of healing for the guys who survived and were critically burned.
 
I flew many hours in a pitts with one aboard the RV, great guy one of the best pilots I know, Very Very sad day.
 
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My condolences to all the families involved.

It was a beautiful day to fly in our state today with several flyins scattered around the state. Too bad it has to end on a such a very sad note.

It appeared the RV8 had a VAF decal on it's HS.
If so, it appears we've lost one of our own as well.

Be careful out there.
 
"This Hurts" -> DR

Yes indeed. My prayers for comfort, condolences, and strength to carry on to all involved. Furthermore, may we never, ever experience a repeat of this sad experience.

Joel
 
Such a sad day....

My Condolances to the loved ones, family and friends involved. Maybe one day we can learn from whatever happened... if we ever learn the entire story....
Love and Prayers,
Best
Brian
 
Video of RV-8 Incident

Here are links to videos of the RV-8 incident yesterday at Arthur Dunn Airpark in Titusville, FL. The first includes an explanation by the president of our local EAA chapter. The second is raw footage. You will need to wait for the ad to run before viewing each video.

http://www.wftv.com/video/15461009/index.html?taf=orlc

http://www.wftv.com/video/15459143/index.html?taf=orlc

Here is a link to still photos of the aircraft involved.

http://www.local6.com/slideshow/15459912/detail.html?taf=orlpn

The two pilots in the RV-8 were much loved by all of us at Spruce Creek and will be sorely missed. The occupants of the Velocity are unknown to our group.

Jim
 
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JCFL said:
The two pilots in the RV-8 were much loved by all of us at Spruce Creek and will be sorely missed. The occupants of the Velocity are unknown to our group.

Jim
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Jim, I am deeply saddened & sorry for your loss. From all accounts your friends were solid aviators. Please express our condolences to your aviation community from me personally, and from all of us at VAF.

Lets be carefull out there!
 
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What a tragic loss :(. After watching the video's it would be easy to be quick at applying blame to this accident. I must say though that I know that the pilot of the other plane never had one thought that morning that he would be the cause of such a disaster.

Bottom line is that it could have been any of us and that is the real scary part. Learn from this disaster! My thoughts and prayers go out to all involved and their families. I am expecially praying for the survivors in that they find a way to deal with what has happened.
 
This is horrible. My airpark neighbor is finishing a Velocity. Owner of the V in this accident is apparently known and reported on the "Reflector"...their builder's forum. I just helped my buddy rig the gear alignment on his project last week and I'm a former RV8 driver.

Extremely unpleasant irony here.

Let's be VERY safe out there folks.
 
Hi All,

Well I was present during the entire affair, not a pretty sight. The two who passed on were very good and personal friends. May we all learn from this accident.

The weather was perfect a slight wind from 040 at about 2 to 3 knots, the wind wasn't even an issue. I had arrived about 0800 and was enjoying a breakfast at the EAA chapter. Soon the Gaggle from Spruce Creek was in sight mostly flights of 3 or 4 aircraft. After doing their overhead break to a downwind for 15. The first flight of 4 arrived without incident, the second filight was about 1 to 2 minutes behind, did their overhead and proceded to land. This is where things went horribly wrong. The Velosity decided to do a straight in for 15 and ignored the radio that a flight of 4 was landing. Upon seeing that there was an aircraft on the runway he vered to the left and let the aircraft take him where he didn't want to go.

Once over the grassy area between the runway and taxiway he hit the grond, not too sure what part of the airplane contacted first. He almost hit a V Tail parked in the grassy area but missed, again he hit the grass past the V Tail. At that time he went full power but too late the left wing dipped sharply and struck the RV-8 just as it was pasing the Bravo Taxiway and the main Taxiway. The impact sheered of the canopyand moved the RV-8 some 70 to 80 feet into the grassy area past the Bravo Taxiway. The velosity then cartwheled some 250 feet, still in the grass anf was already in a ball of fire.

The RV-8 at this time wasn't on fire, but burning parts of the Velosity were near. During the impact the engine was broken loose from the firewall and fuel was pouring into the grass. The burinig debris iginted the fuel and the rest is history.

I truly feel that Bill and Phil were already dead from the impact.

Truly a sad day for two very good aviators and friends.:(
 
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John, thanks for the first hand report, from an aviator--not a news wonk.

I know it hurt to have to tell this so soon, but getting the straight story out is important, we really dont need any more speculation or rumors.
 
A terrible loss. Truly a sad day for all. My prayers to all.

John H said:
Hi All,

Well I was present during the entire affair, not a pretty sight. The two who passed on were very good and personal friends. May we all learn from this accident.

The weather was perfect a slight wind from 040 at about 2 to 3 knots, the wind wasn't even an issue. I had arrived about 0800 and was enjoying a breakfast at the EAA chapter. Soon the Gaggle from Spruce Creek was in sight mostly flights of 3 or 4 aircraft. After doing their overhead break to a downwind for 15. The first flight of 4 arrived without incident, the second filight was about 1 to 2 minutes behind, did their overhead and proceded to land. This is where things went horribly wrong. The Velosity decided to do a straight in for 15 and ignored the radio that a flight of 4 was landing. Upon seeing that there was an aircraft on the runway he vered to the left and let the aircraft take him where he didn't want to go.

Once over the grassy area between the runway and taxiway he hit the grond, not too sure what part of the airplane contacted first. He almost hit a V Tail parked in the grassy area but missed, again he hit the grass past the V Tail. At that time he went full power but too late the left wing dipped sharply and struck the RV-8 just as it was pasing the Bravo Taxiway and the main Taxiway. The impact sheered of the canopyand moved the RV-8 some 70 to 80 feet into the grassy area past the Bravo Taxiway. The velosity then cartwheled some 250 feet, still in the grass anf was already in a ball of fire.

The RV-8 at this time wasn't on fire, but burning parts of the Velosity were near. During the impact the engine was broken loose from the firewall and fuel was pouring into the grass. The burinig debris iginted the fuel and the rest is history.

I truly feel that Bill and Phil were already dead from the impact.

Truly a sad day for two very good aviators and friends.:(
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Tragedy

Such a horrible tragedy. My prayers and condolences go out to all the family, friends and everyone involved.

Keep safe everyone.
 
Phil was a friend from the CAF. I checked him out in the BT-13 and flew with him several times in the Harvard. He flew with me in the Mustang to the airshow in Columbus GA several years ago. Someone picked him up in an RV from Spruce Creek. I don't recall which model.

What a great guy and a terrible loss.

So long Phil, Tailwinds,

Doug Rozendaal
 
3rd fatility from accident confirmed...
Deeply saddened to have to report this. AP is now reporting that a third person has died.
Don Key was the passenger in the Velocity. He was building a Mustang II.
 
:(

I was off skiing for the weekend and looking forward to reading VAF when I got back. I am saddened to hear this news and my heart goes out to the families of all involved and those who had to watch this.

I've been reading the book One Zero Charlie, which starts with a description of a pilot well-known to the author being lost just after take-off. This weekend's loss really had made this all hit home. Not sure I would go fly today even if the weather was perfect.

TODR
 
the_other_dougreeves said:
...This weekend's loss really had made this all hit home. Not sure I would go fly today even if the weather was perfect.

TODR
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This is just one of the reasons that we fly. To honor those that have gone before us and returned, and those who didn't.

Honor your lost comrades by taking flight.
 
MacNab said:
This is just one of the reasons that we fly. To honor those that have gone before us and returned, and those who didn't.

Honor your lost comrades by taking flight.
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I know, that's what they'd want and we will do it, but that day, man, I just felt sick. You're right, we have to keep going, and that's what we'll do.

I suppose it's easier when someone in our chosen hobby who inspires is passes under "normal" circumstances. We had someone who was a large presence in our cycling group pass away recently. He was very inspirational and led one of the weekly rides nearly every week and was always encouraging. There was a memorial ride for him that was huge - over 200 folks. We rode that day for him, since it's what he would have wanted us to do.

TODR
 
Video posted

CNN has posted the video under "Plane erupts into flames at airport". You dont actually see the impact but you do see the the RV-8 taxing foward a little bit and then the camera turns left and then you hear the impact.. and see it cartwheel in front of you... and erupt into flames. The camera does catch pictures of both aircraft on fire. From my experience as a former EMT and Blackhawk crewchief.. I can safely say the folks in the -8 never felt a thing... and the Rutan design aircrew probably never felt anything either... What a sad day... Rest in Peace our Brothers...
Best
Brian
 
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Let's take a positive....

......stance here guys. We can all learn from this horrible accident...I have.
This type of accident has happened in our line of work in Florida a couple of years ago....an Air Tractor taking off with 450 gallons of chemical against the sun with another on landing rollout. Yep...a massive head-on on the runway.

Please, don't fail to look ALL the way down the runway BEFORE the flare and touchdown. Don't fail to look all the way down the runway before takeoff either. Since I live in a small Southern country town where there are deer stands near the runway, I have to continually look far ahead and to the side for deer.

I recommend that we not get fixated on the touchdown point on short final....look waaaay down the runway to ensure that it's clear and make a go-no-go decision before the flare begins.

My condolences as well,
 
When I was a student pilot I was doing T&G's on a private grass runway in a flyin community. The grass was kinda long. I was taught by my instructor to look all the way down the runway on short final to look for deer, planes, obsticales, whatever. This day I looked and three little dark blobs where on the runway that wern't there just a few mins ago on the last T&G. I decided to do a go around to see what it was in the runway. 3 kids were laying down hiding in the tall grass. They got up and ran off the runway as I passed over them. Yep, I could have gotten all three. That really shook me up.

When I called their parents their first comments were "I thought the runway was commons area. My kids have a right to be there." :mad::eek::confused:
 
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Very sad video and turn of events. My prayers are with the families. I don't see how anyone survived this.
 
Radio Calls will save your life!

First and foremost, my thoughts and prayers go out to the families.

Second, this is another case where radio calls (and understanding them) will save lives. 6 weeks ago, I lost a good friend who was a member of my flying club by the name of Brandon Johnson. Brandon was killed in Southern California when he was T-boned in a C-150 by a C-172. The strory, as unnamed sources have reported is that Brandon on his friend were in the pattern for their third or fourth loop. They, being the only plane in the pattern, were not making radio calls. An incomming 172 didn't hear anyone in the pattern and therefore, did not make a radio call. The 172 entered downwind at the 45 and struck the 150 dead center, cutting it in half. The 150 disentegrated in flight, the 172 spiraled to the ground. All 4 occupants were killed (two in each) as well as a bystander on the ground.

Bottom line is this: If either (or both) had been making radio calls, this could have been avoided. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had another aircraft make a call like "N1234A entering downwind at the 45" when you're already established on downwind remaining in the pattern. I'm sure I'm also not the only person who doesn't make "all" of the calls in the pattern when I'm the only one there. After Brandon's death, you better believe I make all the calls (or at least the crucial ones - crosswind, downwind, base, final, clear of active)
 
brianwallis said:
... and the Rutan design aircrew probably never felt anything either...
Brian
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The Velocity may be a canard, but I don't think it's a Rutan design.

http://www.velocityaircraft.com/about.html

Here's a quote from the above link: "Velocity Aircraft Inc., was formed in 1984 by Danny Maher in Sebastian, Florida, to develop and market a new 4-seat canard aircraft, based upon the successful Long-EZ design."

It's a small but important distinction. BTW, I could not find any mention of the accident on their website, not even condolences.
 
Radio Calls

MikeR said:
... you better believe I make all the calls (or at least the crucial ones - crosswind, downwind, base, final, clear of active)
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Mike, thanks for sharing this. This is a great reminder.
 
Last year there was a USAFA Katana doing T&Gs at my airport and was not making ANY position reports. Then an RV was heard inbound to do an overhead about the same time the Katana was visually observed turning base. I told the RV about the Katana and finally the Katana pilot made a position report and may have left the pattern soon thereafter.

I understand the temptation to say nothing if you are the only plane in the pattern but at least two calls per circuit and having inbound traffic listen far enough out can really help.
 
Radio Calls

I routinely fly in and out of an airport (KCVH - Hollister CA) in which there is glider activity on a crossing runway, lots of traffic and ultralight activity without radios. This brings a whole new meaning to keeping your head on a swivel.

If you read my ealier post, you can see why radio calls are a little personal to me.

With some of the bad publicity we've received from AOPA, let's all take the extra step and make a couple extra radio calls today :) You may not be the only one in the pattern and an extra call my save a life.
 
I agree you need to say something. If you are not wanting to give your n number, than at least do this (airport) on final for 19 (airport), or whatever your possision is. who says you have to give an N number anyway
 
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